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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Ardennes posted:Admittedly, I do think Seattle has a very large techno-libertarian contingent as well. I can see the same thing happening in Portland. fwiw those are radicalized right wingers, not centrists
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Jul 10, 2017 11:14
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Goa Tse-tung posted:fwiw those are radicalized right wingers, not centrists A lot of them are pretty socially liberal on the surface (especially towards weed...). The Bay Area is also filled with them. There is admittedly a sliding scale of how much they want to gently caress over the poor (from "very much" to "let they fight over rats in the streets"). There is still a leftwing core in Seattle, Portland and Oakland but in Portland particular, there is basically no leadership (Portland has always sided more anarchist.) I do think the left-wing is becoming more outnumbered over time as all three cities gentrify even further.
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Jul 10, 2017 12:46
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Seattle has the highest union membership density in the country
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Jul 10, 2017 13:10
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I'll actually try to answer your post since you put a fair amount of effort into it. The way you're seeing this is filtered through your employment. Since you're posting here and you said you're from Seattle, I'm guessing you work in the tech industry and run in those circles. That's an industry that attracts either hardcore centrists that latch onto idpol or libertarians that think they're John Galt. Both are united in their desire to not upset the apple cart. This next part is going to sound harsh and honestly it is. There's no winning those people over. They're as delusional and disconnected from reality as any hillbilly that thinks Obama was a communist trying to brainwash their youngins with anti-god gay propaganda. They're low-information voters that go by the color on their jersey and the few specks of news they pick up by osmosis. The good thing about that is that they're also extremely susceptible to fear. So they'll talk a big game about '  i'll never support those mean white supremacist berniebros that hurt my abuela ' but come election time, after the normal fear cycle, they'll get in the booth just to prevent the scary other from gaining power. The same as centrist Republicans that ultimately came out for Trump despite an unprecedented amount of scandals/attacks in the press or how Rick Scott was able to be re-elected the governor of my state despite being a literal garbage pile that nobody likes. We've seen that over and over again in recent times. If you want to win an election, you have to energize the extreme portion of your base and the rest will follow. Present your base with a dud choice and expect dud results. Now to populism. Rookersh posted:I always thought ( and hoped ) that socialist ideals would happen through layers. Obama wasn't the President I wanted, but he was as left as America was willing to accept. Hillary wasn't the President I wanted, but she was electable, unlike Bernie. I hoped that after 8 years of Hillary maybe we'd get someone a little more left. After them we'd get another candidate a little more left. And over time we could slowly but surely move the centrist tribal types to realize this more left stuff was actually great. Obama's behavior wasn't even close to as left as America was willing to accept. It's worth remembering that, in 2008, he was the extreme choice out of the dem primary frontrunners. People wanted the end of Bush policies. People wanted Wall Street's blood for the recession. People wanted radical solutions that would help them. People wanted FDR 2.0. But nobody was willing to give it to them. And imagine what happens when people don't get what they want...they start drifting around for another solution. The failure of Obama and his half-measure Third Way policies ushered in the rise of the Tea Party and Trump. But the good thing is, populism never goes out of style as long as people are hurting. Obama masquerading as a progressive on the campaign trail for two elections didn't hurt Bernie Sanders. The probable failure of Trump isn't going to hurt the far-right. People that disagree with their party need to continue fighting for power within it. Centrists need to stand back and fight the overwhelming urge to ratfuck those people. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 14:03
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The people who say sanders would have lost are the same people who wanted trump to be the GOP candidate because hillary was going to crush him. You are an intelligent person by measurable standards, but that doesn't mean you understand why things are going the way they are.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:49
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The Kingfish posted:Somehow It's literally the Hillary/Bernie primary race; persist in right wing neoliberal economic theory, and resist any ideology to the contrary.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:27
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To be fair "She persisted, we resisted" is a pretty accurate summary.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:30
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Mister Facetious posted:It's literally the Hillary/Bernie primary race; persist in right wing neoliberal economic theory, and resist any ideology to the contrary. I think we have to stop calling it right wing neoliberal economic theory and call it for what it is: submitting to the whims of capital. Their champion Macron pulled out a loving iPhone as a defense of free trade, all the while under Obama the Treasury department was openly assisting Apple in cheating taxes. There is no ideology, it's merely worship and subservience to the uber-wealthy.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:33
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Ardennes posted:Admittedly, I do think Seattle has a very large techno-libertarian contingent as well. I can see the same thing happening in Portland. So you want to actually cite some numbers on this or are you gonna ignore that they Kilroy posted:got a socialist on the city council
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Jul 10, 2017 16:35
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Haha, oh my god that was funny as poo poo. "The people that show up to Democratic Party rallies in Seattle post-11/9 are surely a barometer of how everyone feels regarding Bernie", gently caress my sides
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Jul 10, 2017 18:06
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https://twitter.com/joeprince___/status/884463860736028672 hahaha obama's endorsement looking great
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Jul 10, 2017 18:40
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:https://twitter.com/joeprince___/status/884463860736028672 Liberal white supremacy is becoming more and more indistinguishable from outspoken white supremacy on a daily basis. Also don't forget Obama went to Africa and told them to stop whining and get over colonialism
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Jul 10, 2017 18:58
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Obama's opinions are a shining example of white supremacy?
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Jul 10, 2017 19:04
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Taintrunner posted:Also don't forget Obama went to Africa and told them to stop whining and get over colonialism Pretty sure the actual opinion from Obama was, and I'm paraphrasing here "I can list everything wrong with modern day Africa due to colonialism probably better than any other president, but you can't blame colonialism for everything wrong with Africa."
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Jul 10, 2017 19:11
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Is there a way to get English subtitles on that or do we all know French?
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Jul 10, 2017 19:18
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Taintrunner posted:Liberal white supremacy is becoming more and more indistinguishable from outspoken white supremacy on a daily basis. tbf, Obama is (was) Leader of the Civilizing Forces ™ 
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Jul 10, 2017 19:23
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stone cold posted:So you want to actually cite some numbers on this or are you gonna ignore that they Elections for the city council in Seattle are by district, Sawant's distinct happens one of the most diverse racially and the center of counter-culture (although it is changing). District 3 isn't the entire city.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:32
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Ardennes posted:Elections for the city council in Seattle are by district, Sawant's distinct happens one of the most diverse racially and the center of counter-culture (although it is changing). District 3 isn't the entire city. those don't look like numbers please tell me how many libertarians live in Seattle, tia
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Jul 10, 2017 19:34
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stone cold posted:those don't look like numbers Tell me how many libertarians live in your heart? 45% of the population voted against basic expansions of their still single lined light rail system, that should give you a rough idea. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 19:38
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Ardennes posted:Tell me how many libertarians live in your heart? Consider that stone cold only punches left....
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Jul 10, 2017 19:45
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Ardennes posted:Tell me how many libertarians live in your heart? you made the claim that Seattle is a giant libertarian town and didn't substantiate that with numbers on libertarians so Ardennes posted:Admittedly, I do think Seattle has a very large techno-libertarian contingent as well. I can see the same thing happening in Portland. like i don't think it's too hard to ask when somebody posts Kilroy posted:Dude I see Bernie 2016 bumper stickers all over the place in Seattle and we got a socialist on the city council. gently caress off with this "Seattle is a hotbed of centrism" bullshit. for you to back up your claims but ok i'm punching left when i ask for facts 
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Jul 10, 2017 19:53
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Ardennes posted:45% of the population voted against basic expansions of their still single lined light rail system, that should give you a rough idea. *Strums guitar* So love me, love me, love me- I'm a liberal! I don't necessarily see this as an indication of just how many libertarians live in Seattle but rather how lovely the average upper class liberal is. There were ballot initiatives in my area for a train from the North Bay to the ferry to SF that passed everywhere except the ultra rich county who were terrified of poors taking the train in to steal all their TVs. Knowing the area I'd say few of them would self identify as libertarians, they're just lovely well off centrist Democrats.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:56
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stone cold posted:you made the claim that Seattle is a giant libertarian town and didn't substantiate that with numbers on libertarians so Tech-libertarianism is more of a cultural force than formal political one, most of them are probably Democrats. Great Metal Jesus posted:*Strums guitar* So love me, love me, love me- I'm a liberal! Personally, I count Democrats that more or less have libertarian beliefs as libertarians even if they don't vote for the actual libertarian party. I mean third parties are a joke for a reason in the US. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 19:57
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stone cold posted:you made the claim that Seattle is a giant libertarian town and didn't substantiate that with numbers on libertarians so Saying "there's a large ____ contingent in (city)" is not the same thing as saying "____ is the dominant political force in (city)." It's also tough to gauge how common the aforementioned "technolibertarian" views are in an area, since they're generally distinct from people who explicitly identify as and vote Libertarian. All this being said, "technolibertarian" doesn't really seem to have a clear definition. It seems like it can mean anything from people who are explicitly anti-government to nominal Democrats who are, in practice, against any sort of significant government investment and prefer "market solutions."
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Jul 10, 2017 20:14
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Ytlaya posted:Saying "there's a large ____ contingent in (city)" is not the same thing as saying "____ is the dominant political force in (city)." Granted, another portion of that is an overt focus on technology + the private market as a solution to well everything. Think of the people who thought Uber was going to solve it all. Most of them are probably nominally Democrats (based on local party registration): 84% of San Francisco and 70% of King County voted Democrat last election.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:30
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Pretty sure the actual opinion from Obama was, and I'm paraphrasing here "I can list everything wrong with modern day Africa due to colonialism probably better than any other president, but you can't blame colonialism for everything wrong with Africa." What an rear end in a top hat. WhiskeyJuvenile posted:https://twitter.com/joeprince___/status/884463860736028672 That Twitter post is a really bad summary of what Macron said. My French is rusty so I got some other (maybe iffy) translations of his comments here: quote:“The challenge of Africa is completely different, it is much deeper. It is civilizational today. Failing states, complex democratic transitions, the demographic transition…One of the essential challenges of Africa… [cut in audio] one of the eight countries, that today has seven or eight children born to each woman. You can choose to spend thousands of Euros but you will stabilize nothing.” and: https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963 It's an overly simplistic speech, but not exactly a stealth imperialist revival in my eyes either. Is it bad to think that population control could do a lot to alleviate Africa's (and generally the world's) problems? Brony Car fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 22:19
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Brony Car posted:Is it bad to think that population control could do a lot to alleviate Africa's (and generally the world's) problems? Lol, yes it is.
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Jul 10, 2017 22:46
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"Hey enough resources aren't getting distributed to you, so just die out a little, okay?"
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Jul 10, 2017 22:48
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Perhaps, just maybe, he was talking about things like condoms and birth control to slow the rate of child birth, and not just letting them die until their population stabilizes.
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Jul 10, 2017 22:55
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The problem is that it's basically attributing to choice* what is, in reality, the result of a long history of both literal and economic colonialism. *In the sense that stuff like "having a lot of kids" is something they can just choose to stop doing
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Jul 10, 2017 22:56
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sirtommygunn posted:Perhaps, just maybe, he was talking about things like condoms and birth control to slow the rate of child birth, and not just letting them die until their population stabilizes. Obviously he was talking about that stuff, as was I. You'll find that the population only goes down until people die, though, even when condoms are used!
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Jul 10, 2017 22:58
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Jizz Festival posted:Lol, yes it is. You do realize Africa is going to have 1.5 Billion people by 2050 right? The population explosion going on in Africa is staggering and makes China's look minuscule. Nigeria will have more people than the US by 2050. 440 million people in that country alone. 182 million today. That's more than double the population.. Remember all the centralized state planning it took to keep up with China's population growth? How the hell is Africa going to handle that? If you're worried about Rwandan and Congolese type incidents occurring again than you have to worry about that population growth. Coupled with global warming it will spark wars that make those two look tame.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:02
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:You do realize Africa is going to have 1.5 Billion people by 2050 right? The way forward is socialism, not tut-tutting African mothers for having too many children. If the problem is they don't have access to birth control (and would actually choose to have fewer children) then it's part of the wider problem of distribution of resources. Jizz Festival fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 23:10
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sirtommygunn posted:Perhaps, just maybe, he was talking about things like condoms and birth control to slow the rate of child birth, and not just letting them die until their population stabilizes. Perhaps, but it will take a lot more that one speech to stop the Catholic Church's crusade to stop all condom use in Africa. Is Macron interested in criticizing the Vatican for it's contribution to the AIDS crisis?
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Jul 10, 2017 23:10
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Jizz Festival posted:The way forward is socialism, not tut-tutting African mothers for having too many children. If the problem is they don't have access to birth control (and would actually choose to have fewer children) then it's part of the wider problem of distribution of resources. Yes clearly enacting socialism in Africa has never been attempted before and will solve all the developing worlds problems especially with Nigeria's ample access to oil just a la Venezuela 
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Jul 10, 2017 23:14
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Jizz Festival posted:The way forward is socialism The issue is the advocates for socialism in France failed to do so convincingly.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:14
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How surprising that the anti-socialists are deathly afraid of the coming hoard of African proletarians.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:18
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Jizz Festival posted:How surprising that the anti-socialists are deathly afraid of the coming hoard of African proletarians. Lol I'm sure you'll be in a very good situation if Africans were to invade other nations and take over and they wouldn't kill you for the color of your skin and we wouldn't have a global Rwanda situation on our hands or Zimbabwe.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:20
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Jizz Festival posted:The way forward is socialism, not tut-tutting African mothers for having too many children. If the problem is they don't have access to birth control (and would actually choose to have fewer children) then it's part of the wider problem of distribution of resources. I didn't get the "tut-tutting" vibe from those comments or the excerpt. It just seemed like an observation about population growth and the consequent strain on infrastructre and governmental stability. I also think that you can talk about the lack of access to birth control and still mention that the average number of children per mother is very high (at least by western standards). Can't you talk about problems with resource distribution while also mentioning that if you have a lot of people you need to distribute resources to, that's also a very tricky problem? Anyway, I'm sure we can all agree that use of the term "civilizational" will likely ruin whatever other valid content one has to share with a wider public audience.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:30
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Lol I'm sure you'll be in a very good situation if Africans were to invade other nations and take over and they wouldn't kill you for the color of your skin and we wouldn't have a global Rwanda situation on our hands or Zimbabwe. Literally Fear of a Black Planet.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:36
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