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Thankfully I was in a situation where I could buy a home(private sale with lots of savings), but for most people getting 10-20% down is impossible. And the housing market is already a nightmare, we can't just go 'no down payment, buy away!'. There aren't homes for everyone to buy. (This means the solution is to build shitloads of low-income housing.) Peachfart fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 00:42
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ElCondemn posted:
and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle or still my aunt gender is not binary
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Jul 11, 2017 00:43
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if i could buy an apartment that would be amazing. i have no reason to own something as large as a house and not nearly enough self loathing to own a microhouse
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Jul 11, 2017 00:44
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Peachfart posted:Thankfully I was in a situation where I could buy a home(private sale with lots of savings), but for most people getting 10-20% down is impossible. And the housing market is already a nightmare, we can't just go 'no down payment, buy away!'. There aren't homes for everyone to buy. I think that's why you'd need some kind of home co-op to make it work, you pay into it like insurance or social security but you get a home out of it. IM DAY DAY IRL posted:and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle Good point, the only way to change things is to keep doing the same thing, such genius! Venuz Patrol posted:if i could buy an apartment that would be amazing. i have no reason to own something as large as a house and not nearly enough self loathing to own a microhouse Exactly, I think most people would be perfectly fine in a studio or one bedroom and the mortgage on that kind of space would probably be pretty equivalent to the cost of rent.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:47
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I really don't know why I'm still surprised at goons being hilariously myopic in their worldview.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:51
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:I really don't know why I'm still surprised at goons being hilariously myopic in their worldview. Care to expand on that? I'm a dumb goon who doesn't know poo poo, maybe you could teach me something?
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Jul 11, 2017 00:52
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That situation exists it's called a condo and it comes with its own host of lovely to deal with. Let's say I do find a place that has a mortgage roughly the same as the rent I'm paying. Cool. Whoops wait now I have to pay property taxes. And homeowner's insurance, with half of Portland being in a loving flood plain so rip me. Oh yeah and I need a new roof and the insurance company does't cover it but paying a mortgage instead of rent has not magically deposited the 5-10k I'd need to get a new roof, nor has it magically deposited the extra time into my week for me to deal with all of this myself, so again rip me. Seriously I don't know how you get to us being the idiots. Especially after you listed off several thousand dollars worth of home improvements as though that's change people have lying around.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:54
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ElCondemn posted:Being a homeowner is so tough guys, you wouldn't want to live this hell, I'm constantly replacing roofs and hot water heaters, it totally makes sense for you to just pay me and I'll take care of it... where does the money come from to fix all these things? I just have a kind heart and love to spend my own money to help people! That's about four times what I can afford so thanks for the advice.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:58
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Reene posted:Let's say I do find a place that has a mortgage roughly the same as the rent I'm paying. Cool. sorry, that implies that you've already managed to save literally tens of thousands of dollars in liquid funds for a downpayment, something that, for the purposes of Condemn's viewpoint, is so insignificant that it doesn't warrant a second thought ElCondemn posted:Care to expand on that? I'm a dumb goon who doesn't know poo poo, maybe you could teach me something? running a marathon is really easy if you start at mile 25
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Jul 11, 2017 00:59
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Reene posted:That situation exists it's called a condo and it comes with its own host of lovely to deal with. Most condos have HOA fees so things like new roofs and drain cleaning, etc. are covered at no additional cost. Some HOAs do charge you with unexpected fees but I'm not really concerned with things as they are now, what I'm talking about is how we can improve the situation in the future and put people in homes. As I explained even with the cost of insurance and property taxes rentals end up costing around the same, with an HOA it might be a bit more but I don't have experience other than when searching for a home 4 years ago the costs were between 300-700 depending on the area and what was offered in the complex. Basic search now shows that HOA fees have increased to starting around 500, but I still believe that it will end up being about the same cost as an equivalent rental in this market. https://www.rdanorthwest.com/reserve-study-professionals/knowledge-corner/avg-hoa-dues-seattle/ Reene posted:Seriously I don't know how you get to us being the idiots. Especially after you listed off several thousand dollars worth of home improvements as though that's change people have lying around. I was listing those improvements to show that even with everything I've improved in my 1920s home it's still more affordable than an equivalent rental. Shifty Nipples posted:That's about four times what I can afford so thanks for the advice. If you were given the option to buy a studio for say $450/mo would it be affordable to you? Because that's about what your mortgage would be for a unit that goes for about $100,000. The only reason you can't have that right now is because you can't save 20,000. Even with tax and fees and everything you could still probably afford it. Just think if you bought a 2 bedroom for under 100k, you could have a roommate and with fees and everything your share would still be well under 400/mo. IM DAY DAY IRL posted:sorry, that implies that you've already managed to save literally tens of thousands of dollars in liquid funds for a downpayment, something that, for the purposes of Condemn's viewpoint, is so insignificant that it doesn't warrant a second thought Are you even reading my posts? What are you responding to?
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Jul 11, 2017 01:10
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:sorry, that implies that you've already managed to save literally tens of thousands of dollars in liquid funds for a downpayment, something that, for the purposes of Condemn's viewpoint, is so insignificant that it doesn't warrant a second thought yeah and I am conveniently skipping over the fact that there is no way I'll find a mortgage for ~500/mo but hey eta: to be totally clear yes I know what houses go for and even the absolute cheapest ones are still going to be 800-900/mo which is most of my monthly income with about 300 dollars left over
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Jul 11, 2017 01:11
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When you reach a certain level of income, it becomes harder and harder to grasp how lower income people value each dollar differently. When I was younger and far more broke, a family member got married on a Canadian island that had an extremely expensive ferry and rooms were very pricey. I got into an argument with that family member because they couldn't understand why I had difficulty paying the roughly $500 bucks for the trip, it wasn't very much money at all. For me it was the choice between rent and no rent. ElCondemn, try to think about the majority of renters in Washington. These people don't have 2k for rent in the first place. Peachfart fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 01:12
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Reene posted:yeah and I am conveniently skipping over the fact that there is no way I'll find a mortgage for ~500/mo but hey I just checked Zillow and found a 2br 2 bath for 97k, you could very easily find a mortgage for under 500/mo if you weren't being hosed by the system that tricks people into thinking they can't afford to own a home. Peachfart posted:When you reach a certain level of income, it becomes harder and harder to grasp how lower income people value each dollar differently. Where am I out of touch? Where am I arguing that "500 bucks is nothing"? I'm not telling people to buy a house that costs 2k/mo. I only used my home as an example because it's the only home I've ever owned and I think other people should have the same and could if not for our system. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 01:14
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ElCondemn posted:I just checked Zillow and found a 2br 2 bath for 97k, you could very easily find a mortgage for under 500/mo if you weren't being hosed by the system that tricks people into thinking they can't afford to own a home. Where exactly did you find it because I'll wager it's smack dab in the middle of "not a place I can get to work from" with a dash of "needs love as a euphemism for ~100k in renovations unless you like building code violations and cockroaches"
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Jul 11, 2017 01:17
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ElCondemn posted:I just checked Zillow and found a 2br 2 bath for 97k, you could very easily find a mortgage for under 500/mo if you weren't being hosed by the system that tricks people into thinking they can't afford to own a home. I'm trying to imagine the horrors that exist in any home in Washington going under 100k. 'Ceiling not included' 'Plumbing needs work(i.e. has been torn out by addicts)' 'Equal access to all major cities(is literally right between Seattle and Portland, just south of Centralia)' Edit: I just checked Zillow and there are 0 homes going for under 100k in Seattle. This includes condos(which also usually include massive HOA fees). There are a few tiny lots for 90k that you could pitch a tent on. Peachfart fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 01:18
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Reene posted:Where exactly did you find it because I'll wager it's smack dab in the middle of "not a place I can get to work from" with a dash of "needs love as a euphemism for ~100k in renovations unless you like building code violations and cockroaches" I think you said you're in Portland but I'm sure you can find equivalent, the one I found is in Mountlake Terrace which is just north of Seattle and easily within commute distance of most jobs. They were dotted all over, I didn't just find the one that seems to fit. Buying small is affordable if you could get away with not paying 20% down. Peachfart posted:I'm trying to imagine the horrors that exist in any home in Washington going under 100k. All the ones I saw are totally reasonable and huge step up compared to what I lived in growing up, no granite countertops or anything but maybe my standards are low.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:23
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ElCondemn posted:I think you said you're in Portland but I'm sure you can find equivalent, the one I found is in Mountlake Terrace which is just north of Seattle and easily within commute distance of most jobs. They were dotted all over, I didn't just find the one that seems to fit. Buying small is affordable if you could get away with not paying 20% down. Unless he is 55+, he will be unable to purchase that unit.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:26
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ElCondemn posted:Are you even reading my posts? What are you responding to? ElCondemn posted:The only reason you can't have that right now is because you can't save 20,000. Peachfart posted:When you reach a certain level of income, it becomes harder and harder to grasp how lower income people value each dollar differently.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:26
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2br 1 bth 1000 sq ft out where I am now goes for 310,000 + up from 245 a year and a couple months ago. I'm getting letters from Realtors in the mail asking if we want to sell. The low market is hosed right now. One has to go out to like cle elum to find what your talking about condemn
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Jul 11, 2017 01:30
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ElCondemn posted:I think you said you're in Portland but I'm sure you can find equivalent, the one I found is in Mountlake Terrace which is just north of Seattle and easily within commute distance of most jobs. They were dotted all over, I didn't just find the one that seems to fit. Buying small is affordable if you could get away with not paying 20% down. No, dude, I really can't. I'm in Beaverton and there is genuinely nothing in this area for the amounts you are talking about when you consider the condition of the homes. It is possible if I transported myself out to bumfuck Banks or something I could find a home for what I pay now (again, ignoring down payments) at the expense of, again, not being able to get to work because I take public transit. And I'd still be hosed if anything happened to the house because my monthly income does not have the wiggle room necessary for me to be putting hundreds away just in case. And I'm in decent shape income-wise. This time last year I was making two thirds what I am now. You are out of touch and your advice is bad.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:33
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Peachfart posted:Unless he is 55+, he will be unable to purchase that unit. That's just one, there are others. If you bought with a friend you could get a 200k home. My point would be more valid if the past few years hadn't been so crazy housing wise, but either way people are paying rent and it's not like landlords are giving away free money. The reason people buy land to rent it out is because it is cheaper to own than rent, and it's pretty clear the reason is that it's hard to save up a lot of money. The only way to change that is to make it easier to save money, which in my opinion will never happen, or remove that restriction. When will you loving understand, I'm not saying "save up 20k, it's so easy". I'm saying "get rid of the 20k restriction". Reene posted:And I'm in decent shape income-wise. This time last year I was making two thirds what I am now. You are out of touch and your advice is bad. What advice am I giving out? ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 01:33
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ElCondemn posted:When will you loving understand, I'm not saying "save up 20k, it's so easy". I'm saying "get rid of the 20k restriction". As soon as you provide some sort of real-world scenario in which this would ever happen? You can blue-sky a revolution of the financing industry all you'd like but without any realistic proposal it just boils back down to 'home ownership is easy if you just simply remove the difficult parts.'
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Jul 11, 2017 01:39
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:As soon as you provide some sort of real-world scenario in which this would ever happen? You can blue-sky a revolution of the financing industry all you'd like but without any realistic proposal it just boils back down to 'home ownership is easy if you just simply remove the difficult parts.' Seems like there isn't any discussion to be had then, I don't have any answers for you I'm just proposing what I think would help get people into homes. It's a good thing you were here to end the conversation.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:45
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ElCondemn posted:
Your conjecture, rather, my bad. And it sucks because just axing down payments wouldn't really solve housing insecurity on a broad level in the way something like socialized housing would.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:51
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Mountlake Terrace is still at least an hour drive away to downtown Seattle in rush hour traffic. Taking a bus isn't much better since the carpool lane ends at Northgate.
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Jul 11, 2017 02:01
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seiferguy posted:Mountlake Terrace is still at least an hour drive away to downtown Seattle in rush hour traffic. Taking a bus isn't much better since the carpool lane ends at Northgate. Good news, all the houses for sale that I found were for seniors, so you can't afford it anyway. Edit: cursory search shows that even in the 200k range you're probably out of luck. So the trick is to buy 4 years ago and then maybe it works out. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 02:26
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If someone is hand to mouth, they are a lot less likely to be able to afford the unexpected maintenance items that pop up when you own a home. So they will have to make choices about letting their house rot or getting the repairs done and maybe not eating as much that month. My home was owned by just those sort of people before me, and it shows in all the bandaid solutions I find every time I open up the walls or the roof to fix the latest one that has failed. I had to put hundreds of dollars and hours of my time into my house for the first three years that I owned it. Yes, median rent well surpasses my mortgage payment, but I am about even money when you consider all of the repairs I have had to make. I have built equity through sweat, principle payments, and market appreciation, so in that way I am ahead, but it's not cash in hand. I will recognize, however, that this is an avenue for building wealth, sometime generational wealth building, that is more open to you the more money you have. Rent represents the maximum you will pay for housing each month. Principle, interest, taxes, and insurance represents a minimum amount. Risk of repair expense is shifted to the landlord if you are renting, and if you can't afford to have unexpected repairs, that is important. Also the suggestion that we just get rid of down payment requirements..... Uh we tried that already. You used to be able to get 80/20 financing. It did no go so well. Please see the US housing market 2003-2007 and the resulting global financial crisis 2007-2009.
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Jul 11, 2017 02:32
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therobit posted:Also the suggestion that we just get rid of down payment requirements..... Uh we tried that already. You used to be able to get 80/20 financing. It did no go so well. Please see the US housing market 2003-2007 and the resulting global financial crisis 2007-2009. I don't think that's the same as not having a down payment, all the "solutions" of that era were just ways to add hidden fees and debts to those least able to afford it. But also the market failing was due to outrageous speculation and all the people who were sold "no downpayment" homes were hit by their variable rate mortgages and the other "solutions" that were never intended to work.
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Jul 11, 2017 02:59
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ElCondemn posted:I'm just proposing what I think would help get people into homes. Are you suggesting that down payments be banned or capped at the legislative level? If so it would help to be more clear about that. The reason everyone is arguing with you is because down payment costs ARE currently required, and therefore cannot be disregarded when discussing the current cost of purchasing a home versus renting. "I only have 8 fingers if you completely disregard the thumbs that are still attached to my hands." is what everyone but you seems to be hearing. Not trying to be rude here, sorry in advance if it comes across that way.
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Jul 11, 2017 03:03
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Chadderbox posted:Are you suggesting that down payments be banned or capped at the legislative level? If so it would help to be more clear about that. The reason everyone is arguing with you is because down payment costs ARE currently required, and therefore cannot be disregarded when discussing the current cost of purchasing a home versus renting. Some guy quoted me from pages ago, if you want to catch up read what I posted then, sorry if some rear end in a top hat quoting me out of context changed what y'all thought I was saying.
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Jul 11, 2017 03:12
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coyo7e posted:Hurp Durp about dams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Basin_Project My point with existing hydro electric dams is they require next to 0 maintenence and put out 0 carbon emissions. My opinion on dam removals stands. What are you going to replace that removed power with? Wind? Alright, where are you going to put it? How long is it going to build and permit it. 3000 MW is a sizable amount of electricity. If you want to replace fossil fuels, focus on doing that first before ripping out thousands of MWs worth of dams and shuttering nuclear plants. You also assume I live in Idaho, I live in Washington along the Columbia River. (And yes Idaho is part of the PNW.) With regards to tourism/sports fishing vs. commercial fishing, particularly gill netting. My experience has been that the same # of guys in a boat with rods catch less fish than a boat with a net. Fish are a sustainable resource, if not OVERFISHED! (Otherwise they disappear like off the coast of Japan, Korea, China). I guess we have to agree to disagree. anthonypants posted:The Hanford reactor was built in the 40s. Trojan was built in the 70s. In the past 50+ years we have made improvements on nuclear reactor designs, such as in terms of reducing waste and weapons-grade material, but we've also had issues with some nuclear plants in those 50+ years. There's also the massive problem we have with DOE and nuclear plant employees being contractors belonging to private companies, who shirk safety and responsibility in order to increase short-term profits. I do agree that the national labs and others should be Federal employees. Why they switched I don't know. Probably chasing short term profits... therobit posted:Yes, but I am not super comfortable assuming we will find a safe way to store the waste, give the type of trouble we are in due to storing other nuclear waste. But I'm a layman, so if you have an explanation as to why that is easier with lower grade waste then I am all ears. Spent fuel (Pretty much commercial high level waste) gets stored into an on site pool until it dissipates enough heat. (It goes from hot hot to hot.) Then it gets incased a big loving cylindrical vessel, welded shut, and stored outside. Anchored to the ground, guarded by the same protective force that guards the plant. I think the U.S. Navy's spent fuel goes to Idaho... I'm not sure. It will remain that way for the foreseeable future as Yucca Mountain is dead in the water and there is a lot of politics in moving/storing the high level waste. (I think there might be 5 or 6 locales willing to do it because of jobs... Hanford, New Mexico, Nevada Test Site, Texas, Idaho National Labs) but at the state level pretty much everyone wants their and others waste stored somewhere else permanenetly. So the best thing for politicians to do is to say they're doing something but do nothing at all. Hanford's waste will probably stay in Hanford. California's waste will stay in California. Idaho's waste will stay in Idaho... http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-wastes/radioactive-waste-management.aspx Senor P. fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 03:43
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ElCondemn posted:Some guy quoted me from pages ago, if you want to catch up read what I posted then, sorry if some rear end in a top hat quoting me out of context changed what y'all thought I was saying. You literally said we should get rid of the requirement to put down 20k (and it is actually between 3% and 20% of purchase price depending on whether you have private mortgage insurance and which loan programs you choose/have access to). What are you suggesting we do to eliminate that?
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Jul 11, 2017 04:25
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"I dunno just thought it'd be cool!"
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Jul 11, 2017 04:35
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Jesus everyone, slow your roll.
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Jul 11, 2017 05:36
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:Besides, it seemed like I was debating points against a tech goon basing a lot of ideas off very personal/anecdotal experience.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:21
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https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/884811348697387008  
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Jul 11, 2017 17:28
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I don't know if this is a well known Portland place but thought it might interest the oregoons https://twitter.com/maylor_torris/status/884845108398391296
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Jul 12, 2017 00:56
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GodFish posted:I don't know if this is a well known Portland place but thought it might interest the oregoons The storyline is that this article came up in the Oregonian on Friday, and then the following Monday he was fired. This follow-up article describes how one of the owners, Ken Gordon, got upset at how he was described by the Oregonian and by social media, but by now he's calmed down. He's posted an apology on Facebook and there's also this Facebook post on their wall, signed by a number of Kenny & Zuke's employees, agreeing that the employee should have been fired, and that it had nothing to do with Friday's article. Maybe they're right? Maybe they were coerced? 
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Jul 12, 2017 01:05
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anthonypants posted:It is a very well-known place. They even have one in the airport now. You forgot the part where Ken Gorden felt the need to talk about how many cigarettes and how much pot the employee smokes as justification for paying poverty wages.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:33
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lovely restaurant owners? In my Portland? It's more likely than you think.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:44
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