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hobbesmaster posted:Runway lights don't always work. I doubt the Canadian crew has the excuse that the relief crew on a 12 hour flight became very ill though. That article says the approach lights weren't working for that runway, which is a separate issue. You can land without approach lights, but the actual runway lights/reflectors must be working (at least by Canadian law, I assume it's pretty much the same worldwide). At minimum, you need reflectors or lights for each edge of the runway and both thresholds. And, yes, taxiway lights and runway lights look extremely different. Runway edge lights are white, and taxiway edge lights are blue (and generally much, much dimmer). That's not an easy mistake to make at all -- in fact, it's much more difficult at night than during the day.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:31
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The NTSB investigation of Delta Flight 60's taxiway landing at Atlanta in 2009 concluded that it's actually sometimes very difficult to tell a runway from a parallel taxiway when the approach lights are off and the light intensities are configured in certain ways. They even sent investigators to conduct a few test flights under the same conditions to see how the mistake could have been made. NTSB posted:At the time of the incident the runway edge and center line lighting was operated at low intensity (step 1 of 5, equivalent a current of 2.8 amps). Both edge lights of the taxiway M were operated at high intensity (step 5 of 5, equivalent to a current of 6.6 amps) and the taxiway center line lights were operated a medium intensity (step 2 of 5, equivalent to a current of 3.4 amps). The taxiway lighting at the east end of taxiway M had been replaced with LED type lights in 2009 during an upgrade. Pilot comments had been received that the LED type lights appeared much brighter than the other original incandescent lights but no formal pilot input was collected. The FAA determined that pilots do not like intermixing incandescent and LED lights, but did not publish any standard for intermixing the lights. The FAA released a presentation showing some comparison photos that can help illustrate how this might happen (page 50 of this PDF): FAA Delta 60 Presentation The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 17:17
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Colin Hales, who was flying his KR2 around the world, crashed in japan today. He crashed on a golf course, and walked himself to the clubhouse. The plane is completely wrecked, but I'd bet that's why he was able to walk away. https://www.facebook.com/kr2worldtour.co.uk/?fref=mentions Nerobro fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 17:32
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The Ferret King posted:The NTSB investigation of Delta Flight 60's taxiway landing at Atlanta in 2009 concluded that it's actually sometimes very difficult to tell a runway from a parallel taxiway when the approach lights are off and the light intensities are configured in certain ways. They even sent investigators to conduct a few test flights under the same conditions to see how the mistake could have been made. Still nothing that can't be overcome by a quick glance at the localizer. And I'm saying this as someone who's generally all rah rah about shucking excessive automation in favor of looking where you want to go, and pointing the machine there. You should still crosscheck all your available information. I got reeled back in a bit after a Captain pointed out to me I was lined up for a taxiway, at an embarrassingly late point in the approach.
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Jul 11, 2017 18:17
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Nerobro posted:Colin Hales, who was flying his KR2 around the world, crashed in japan today. He crashed on a golf course, and walked himself to the clubhouse. The plane is completely wrecked, but I'd bet that's why he was able to walk away. Got a screen cap for those of us without a Facebook account?
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Jul 11, 2017 19:34
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vessbot posted:Still nothing that can't be overcome by a quick glance at the localizer. And I'm saying this as someone who's generally all rah rah about shucking excessive automation in favor of looking where you want to go, and pointing the machine there. You should still crosscheck all your available information. I got reeled back in a bit after a Captain pointed out to me I was lined up for a taxiway, at an embarrassingly late point in the approach. quote:The runway lights were turned on, approach lights and ILS however were not active. http://avherald.com/h?article=42187f22
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Jul 11, 2017 19:39
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Human error being what it is, preventing these types of accidents 100% of the time is not possible. All we can do is try to make improvements to mitigate repeat occurrences.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:46
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I mean let's be honest here. The story that started the conversation was "Plane doesn't have accident"
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Jul 11, 2017 20:01
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Very true. This most recent example got caught and corrected before it went horribly badly.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:44
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hobbesmaster posted:No ILS Woops
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Jul 11, 2017 21:08
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BonoMan posted:Looks like 16 people killed in a C-130 refueling crash just outside of my hometown in the Mississippi Delta (it was coming from Memphis): From that webpage, a man who does not understand aviation: https://twitter.com/CJLeMaster/status/884862524834951169 "More than 130 miles south of its approximate flight path" plus an image of a line between departure and destination on google earth, cripes. The plane went down on the J52 just a dozen or so miles prior to the Sidon navaid.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:15
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even if that were literally the exact path the plane were flying to the centimeter, the guy could stand to look up glide ratios
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Jul 11, 2017 21:34
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Prop Wash posted:From that webpage, a man who does not understand aviation: Ha! CJ's a good friend of mine. I'm going to rib him (although I see you already corrected him). He's a good guy, maybe a little naive.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:36
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Instead of a screencap here are links to two articles. Word on the KrNet mailing list is he broke his hip. (he walked to the clubhouse......) http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/596908-colin-hales-crashes-japan.html http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20170711/k10011054411000.html As an aside, the maintainer of the KRnet mailing list is a dick. Edit: I've done some digging. It appears that the plane got grounded in japan, for some reason or another, and it sat for 6 months, without being mothballed. This... is not a good thing to do to an engine. Colin has noted that the jabiru he's flying behind is somewhat more delicate than typical aero engines. (He wasn't ~all that~ happy with it, but it is light..) The crash appears to be related to an engine failure, and there's a good chance that was closely related to having the engine not stored properly. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 22:14
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Edit: wrong crash
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Jul 12, 2017 01:14
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Nerobro posted:Instead of a screencap here are links to two articles.  that's a shame
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Jul 12, 2017 05:17
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There aren't many aircraft or engines I look on poorly, but I flat-out don't like any of Jabiru's engines.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:27
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PT6A posted:And, yes, taxiway lights and runway lights look extremely different. Runway edge lights are white, and taxiway edge lights are blue (and generally much, much dimmer). That's not an easy mistake to make at all -- in fact, it's much more difficult at night than during the day. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. The Ferret King posted:The NTSB investigation of Delta Flight 60's taxiway landing at Atlanta in 2009 concluded that it's actually sometimes very difficult to tell a runway from a parallel taxiway when the approach lights are off and the light intensities are configured in certain ways. They even sent investigators to conduct a few test flights under the same conditions to see how the mistake could have been made. Oh, Flight Simulator 4 had 16 colors, there was no such thing as different levels of dimming  I see what they mean! I didn't read the whole article, why do lights get dimmed in the first place?
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Jul 12, 2017 06:52
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Buttcoin purse posted:Oh, Flight Simulator 4 had 16 colors, there was no such thing as different levels of dimming To save energy and bulb life. The intensity is set based on time of day and weather conditions and it's all laid out in the ATC manual. If you're really bored, it's the 7110.65 Chapter 3 section 4.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:08
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Interesting point. I've only landed at one airport with ATC-controlled lights other than my home airport (which I'm obviously very familiar with) so the light intensity is either full or pilot-controlled, with taxiway lights always being dimmer than runway lights since they're on the same brightness control. There are tons of weird optical illusions that can happen at night so I totally believe this could happen if intensities were manually adjusted.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:15
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The new LED lights going in also appear way brighter than the old bulbs at the same intensity setting. I got to see that in action at two airports as they underwent pavement/lighting renovations. Huge difference.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:20
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 "Residual Pitch Oscillation" or "Servo Aeroelastic Phenomenon." Or high speed flutter and potential source of an inadvertent over-G. Also, HILARIOUS comparison of engine noise of our respective bombers. I dare you not to laugh and grin at 4:28. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zzLwZNxB4 Kebbins fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 05:17
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B-2s inlet/exhaust design does a great job at attenuating the high pitch turbomachinery whine, drat.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:34
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I can't help but love the Bone. It gets the inner 6-year old in me all excited every time.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:48
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Just as long as you aren't going around trying to get other six-year-olds interested in the Bone.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:56
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Kinda missing growing up on/near Air Force bases now drat. Living close enough to the range to hear the AC-130s at night was cooler then 10 year old me realized
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Jul 13, 2017 05:59
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ehnus posted:I can't help but love the Bone. It gets the inner 6-year old in me all excited every time. They are so loving loud. Saw one at an airshow at Luke AFB once... Felt like the noise was going to break up the concrete. It was awesome.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:00
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The Locator posted:They are so loving loud. Saw one at an airshow at Luke AFB once... Felt like the noise was going to break up the concrete. It was awesome. Oh yeah... yeah, they are. I was at the Comox airshow in like 2001/2002 which had a Bone show up. A friends parents live a stones throw from runway 30 and we were having a barbecue. The Bone took off from runway 12, full reheat, and made a low pass over the house. I can't really explain how loud it was other than to say that for a brief moment in time my body ceased to register any sensation except noise until it passed.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:19
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The Locator posted:They are so loving loud. Saw one at an airshow at Luke AFB once... Felt like the noise was going to break up the concrete. It was awesome. BONE did a flyover of my school's football stadium last season. I was on the other side of campus, but in the flightpath. Motherfucker set off car alarms... I thought that was a myth My buddy works for the A/V team at the stadium and apparently the crew called and asked "how high is the top of the stadium" followed immediately by "how close to that height do you want us?"
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Jul 13, 2017 11:07
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Kebbins posted:I dare you not to laugh and grin at 4:28. So to summarize: B52:  B2:  B1b  gently caress YO poo poo BITCHES I'M OUT
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Jul 13, 2017 11:14
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BIG HEADLINE posted:So barring the end of the world happening next week, I'll be doing a two day trip to the USAF Museum in Dayton. Any advice, and does anyone in here want photographs of something obscure or strange that most people normally don't take pictures of (for modeling or given some in this thread, maybe weird fetish purposes >.>). PM me if so. PAV 1 The YF-23 is like a dream to see in person
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Jul 13, 2017 12:14
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I got nose-on buzzed by a Bone going transonic in full afterburner at 100 feet AGL. It loving owned. I also made sure to have both ear plugs in and my hands clapped over my ears.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:57
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ehnus posted:I can't really explain how loud it was other than to say that for a brief moment in time my body ceased to register any sensation except noise until it passed. I was working in a grocery tore on the outskirts of Amarillo when a a single Bone flew directly overhead on the way east at maximum legal speed. poo poo was rattling off the shelves. It was second only to the low pass by a three-ship of CH-53Es flying over my house at treetop level. The BUFF screams with eight low-bypass turbofans; the Bone, on full=power climbout, puts out a bass note more akin to helicopters/earthquakes in tone and intensity.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:31
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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BIG HEADLINE posted:So barring the end of the world happening next week, I'll be doing a two day trip to the USAF Museum in Dayton. Any advice, and does anyone in here want photographs of something obscure or strange that most people normally don't take pictures of (for modeling or given some in this thread, maybe weird fetish purposes >.>). PM me if so. Protip for the museum, bring a flashlight! I have a tacticlol surefire that I politely declare at the entrance/security area, and if you've never been the lighting in the museum is incandescent/high up and can be somewhat dim. Exception is the new R&D and Space Gallery which is comparatively blinding but shine your light up all the airplane holes. Outside you might grab a pizza at Marion's, donut at Bill's Donuts in Centerville, and consider going to Mendelsons liquidation downtown.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:08
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Kebbins posted:Also, HILARIOUS comparison of engine noise of our respective bombers. I dare you not to laugh and grin at 4:28. Well that took me right back to Al Udeid. Has anyone ever been under a Bear or Tu-160?
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Jul 13, 2017 14:15
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The B-1s would set off car alarms across Andersen AFB during takeoff regularly. I remember being a young hungover airman and having no choice but to wake up whenever they launched on weekends.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:39
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Sint Maarten jet engine blast kills New Zealand woman http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40591757 Wonder if they'll start fencing that part of the beach off entirely
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Jul 13, 2017 14:55
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Always an idiot to run nice things for everyone else. It never fails.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:03
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cowboy elvis posted:The B-1s would set off car alarms across Andersen AFB during takeoff regularly. I remember being a young hungover airman and having no choice but to wake up whenever they launched on weekends. I grew up about as close to the runway at ellsworth as you can get, and I'm still amazed at how well i learned to sleep through the entire house shaking as a b-1 takes off. Probably helps that my dad is the sort of deep sleeper to not wake up when say, a b-52 explodes a half mile away, or a car crashes into your house.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:18
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Mr. Despair posted:I grew up about as close to the runway at ellsworth as you can get Box Elder? I lived in the apartments across the street from Wal Mart in Rapid City when I worked at Ellsworth, and could easily hear them take off from my patio. Kind of a poo poo plane to work on for avionics, but adjusting the fuel flow transmitter during an engine run at night is still one of the most breathtaking (literally) jobs I have ever done on a plane.
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