The Mattybee posted:

Seriously, guys.

Patriots fans may be douches in the context of sports fandom. They might even be douches outside of sports fandom - but I can't say that about every single Pats fan. We have some cool and good Pats fans on here, even! By and large I'd say they're douchey, yeah. But seriously - look at loving Clay Travis. It's not just that he's a racist, sexist douche - it's that that is his career. His entire being is douche. He gets paid to be a douche and write about how he's a douche and be lovely to other people. He's not just a douche, he enables other douchery because for some reason there are dumbasses who take this shithead seriously.

This shouldn't even be a contest.

Leperflesh posted:

Clay Travis wins, 49-19.

Eli Wiggum posted:

Biggest blowout in the tournament?

WampaLord posted:

I'm not a fan of all the anti-group bias I see amongst the votes. Just weigh each side as you will, don't go "Well, I'm voting for this person because I don't like the concept of voting for a group."

Groups are perfectly valid options.

Cavauro posted:

there's a massive difference between an organization and "a bunch of people who like the same thing or live in the same place or something" and it's valid to discount pointless nominations such as those. several more specific bengals could have been in the tournament if not for such generic nonsense

Shangri-Law School posted:

I nominate Cavauro for the Hall of Fame for making a mockery of this exercise in mockery.

Shangri-Law School posted:

I nominate Cavauro for the Hall of Fame for making a mockery of this exercise in mockery.

WampaLord posted:

WampaLord posted:

I'm not a fan of all the anti-group bias I see amongst the votes. Just weigh each side as you will, don't go "Well, I'm voting for this person because I don't like the concept of voting for a group."

Groups are perfectly valid options.

seiferguy posted:

Patriots fans is too far nebulous a group to pin down compared to one specific rear end in a top hat, especially when the common trends among Pats fans can be found in most fan groups of teams that win a lot. That said, most winning teams don't have people like Tom Brady and Bill Belichick at the helm.

Ugh, I feel dirty for somehow defending Patriot fans.

sean10mm posted:

I understand, but there are probably pediatric oncologists saving the lives of children from horrifying diseases and people like that who cheer for Tom Brady, so eh.

On average Boston sports fans are god-awful for sure.

sean10mm posted:

I understand, but there are probably pediatric oncologists saving the lives of children from horrifying diseases and people like that who cheer for Tom Brady, so eh.

On average Boston sports fans are god-awful for sure.

Leperflesh posted:

Everyone who insisted Kaep insulted the troops
Last season during the preseason Colin Kaepernick quietly began kneeling during the national anthem before games. A few people noticed and when asked, he presented his case: he was doing it in protest of racial injustice and police brutality, particularly towards black men and other people of color.

Unfortunately for Kaepernick, he ran headfirst into a deeply, deeply ingrained conglomeration of American myths, passions, convictions, etc. that go well beyond the already deeply contentious issues of race and criminal justice in the US. We do not need to hash those all out here: reasonable people can disagree about whether his protest was "appropriate," had or has potential to be effective, can or cannot be separated from the man and his other opinions, and so on.

But one particular aspect of the backlash that rapidly built against Kaep that I found especially douchebaggy was the conflation of a protest during the National Anthem, and some kind of connection to the US military.

I think this article in the Atlantic from last year presents the problem reasonably well:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/08/colin-kaepernick-nfl-patriotism/498014/

quote:

America’s most popular sports league is also its most visibly patriotic, a trait discernible in everything from pregame fighter-jet flyovers to field-sized flags to coaches’ instructions about the anthem during behind-the-scenes shows. It doesn’t require an extreme amount of cynicism or research to note that this is as much about industry acumen as love of country—the league has a brand, and the stars and stripes are a part of it—but like all branding, it works best when it is assumed as a matter of course. With his means of protest, then, Kaepernick is not only using his platform as an athlete to raise awareness about ongoing tragedies. He’s also, whether by design or not, questioning the NFL’s insistent but narrow definition of patriotism, shining a harsh light on its red-white-and-blue wallpaper.

Essentially, to the extent that Kaep's protest "insults the troops," that is only the case because the NFL specifically, and to a lesser degree the entire country generally, absolutely loving loves to drape any aspect relating to patriotism with military iconography. This is deeply, deeply ingrained: the actual words to the Star Spangled Banner were written by Francis Scott Key as a poem called Defence of Fort M'Henry about the US flag staying up during the night of a fearsome battle - the bombardment of an American fort by the British during the War of 1812. But that connection is not, today, inherent: we sing the national anthem in many contexts in which the military is uninvolved. There's something more going on here: the NFL and the Pentagon have a tight, and monetarily-based, partnership in which they engage in cross-promotion for branding purposes. Basically, the reason people who watch NFL football are thinking about the troops, is because the NFL and the US government have spend a fuckton of money making sure of it. Per that 2015 article:

quote:

As much as $6.8M has been spent by the Department of Defense on secret payments to pro sports teams in exchange for tributes to the military over the past four years.

But Kaepernick himself made clear from the very outset that his protest was specifically about police getting off scott free for the racist oppression and murder of black people.

quote:

A couple days after sitting for the anthem, Kaepernick addressed reporters and said his actions aren’t intended to insult the military. “I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” he said. “And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening.”

And yet countless douchebags, including some of his own teammates, cannot take the man's word.

quote:

When asked about Kaepernick’s actions, his ex-teammate and now-Minnesota Viking Alex Boone, whose brother served as a Marine, spoke passionately. “That flag obviously gives him the right to do whatever he wants. I understand it. At the same time, you should have some loving respect for people who served, especially people that lost their life to protect our freedom.”

The response rests on certain assumptions. The anthem is, in Boone’s presentation, a means of honoring America’s military—not the country’s ideological foundation or its cultural or political history—and so Kaepernick is offending the military. Contrast this understanding with, say, that of the national anthems played for the victors at the Olympics. American medalists tend to report on the experience of hearing the anthem played as a prideful and reminiscent one that brings up visions of parents, hometowns, and training partners and coaches along the way. It is celebratory, not supplicant, patriotism.

Sure Boone, but Kaep explicitly and publicly expressed that respect. People were, and still are, wilfully ignoring it. Why? Because by insisting that the whole thing is about disrespecting the troops, they can ignore the actual issues being raised. We don't have to confront the fact of police violence against black men, and the legal and political systems that ignore, condone, or even promote it, if we can instead take the opportunity to be insulted on behalf of our troops, who we obviously must honor at any and every opportunity.

If you think it's wrong to kneel instead of stand for the Anthem, OK - I strenuously disagree, but that's a point people can make. If you think there's no racism or the police are doing just fine or cops are being appropriately punished for blowing away unarmed black men on a routine basis, OK, you're a loving idiot, but fine. But insisting that someone's protest is exactly what they are clearly and unequivocally stating it isn't, is just douchebaggery. Especially when you use that as an excuse to avoid the real problems being raised.

sean10mm posted:

Alright, let's get some Real American poo poo in here.

I used to be one of Are Troops. The Army sent me to 3rd world shitholes to unfuck the planet's rear end in a top hat clusters for God and Country. I got ribbons and silver jump wings and all kinds of poo poo, and I'm here to tell you effete little buttermilk-making GBS threads special snowflake pisspants motherfucks that the correct answer to the question of "Who should win this round of douchebag voting?" is:

People who insisted Kaep disrespected the troops.

I don't like mass awards, but the fake-patriotic uproar over what Kaepernick did was just stupid bullshit all the way down. Plus, again, nobody cares about the Bengals.

Leperflesh posted:

Trent Dilfer

Trent Farris Dilfer (born March 13, 1972) is a former American football quarterback who played 13 seasons in the National Football League. He is also a former NFL analyst for ESPN.

seiferguy posted:

(re: Kaep's protest):

quote:

“No matter how passionate you are, no matter how much of a burden you have for social issues, you don’t let it get in the way of the team. This is a backup quarterback whose job is to be quiet and sit in the shadows and get the starter ready to play in Week 1. Yet he chose a time where all of a sudden, he became the center of attention.”

In other words: keep quiet and know your place. I could talk about how much underlying racism there is here, but I think most of us can pick up on it. Then he went on that weird derail about how he could have used his position as a QB to speak out against child slavery but didn't because he didn't want to hurt his team

I also found this:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/adam-schefter-trent-dilfer-feud-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-patriots/151kzfl8nuyc21qahbw7ypiyl4

quote:

Former NFL quarterback and ESPN NFL analyst Trent Dilfer suggested last week the Patriots brass were using Schefter as a mouthpiece with his statement that New England would receive a first-round pick and a fourth-rounder for Garoppolo.

Schefter fired back at his ESPN colleague on Tuesday, saying "nobody in New England has ever stated any price" for Garoppolo. He added that Dilfer's "promise" that no team would give up that much for the third-year quarterback is " factually incorrect."
...
"And again, facts will be used to correct Trent there, nobody in New England has ever stated any price to me on Jimmy Garoppolo and nobody has ever said to me, ‘Can you please put that out there so we can drum up the interest.’

"It’s amazing that somebody that I work with and respect as much as I do would say something like that."

Dilfer was among the first batch of employees recently axed as ESPN has radically cut staffing.

Magnetic North posted:

Don't make me choose.

Eli Wiggum posted:

I guarantee you that over 50% of Kaep People aren't even that patriotic to begin with and just got huffy over a colored person kneeling during the Anthem