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TomR posted:Screen size and PPI don't mean anything once you put a lens system between the screen and your eyes. The FOV and screen res are the only thing that tell you how big each pixel will look, assuming the whole screen is visible. Yeah, there is still not quite enough details out about this yet, and its still a ways away. Unless there are some serious limitations on this platform that nobody has discussed yet it will at worst still end up at tier1 level, with a distinct possibility of ending up having unquestionable better visuals, although by possibly a pretty small amount you might not really be able to tell in direct comparisons.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:45
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PerrineClostermann posted:How do those things even work, anyway? I called the toll free number, spoke to a dude and told him when and where I bought it and the issue. Adjuster will be contacting me soon, I'll need to give them proof of purchase etc, then they send me money a few days after that. Pretty cool really, I'll be remembering to take advantage of this going forward. gently caress HTC. I won't ever buy another product from them.
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Jul 11, 2017 19:58
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lemming do you use the stick much in EA? I turned off all the stick options, even the one that was on by default, because using them with the vive controller was a nightmare. but wondering if I'm really losing much mobility if I have lots of room to spin quickly irl
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Jul 11, 2017 20:00
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The Walrus posted:lemming do you use the stick much in EA? I turned off all the stick options, even the one that was on by default, because using them with the vive controller was a nightmare. but wondering if I'm really losing much mobility if I have lots of room to spin quickly irl For what it is worth, most of the time I just physically spun around myself. I would have to untangle my cord after every match. But you use the stick click all the time because left stick click is boost and right stick is brake. I'm not sure if moving the left stick does anything at all.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:09
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Nalin posted:For what it is worth, most of the time I just physically spun around myself. I would have to untangle my cord after every match. But you use the stick click all the time because left stick click is boost and right stick is brake. I'm not sure if moving the left stick does anything at all. You can bind it to pitch, its not bound by default. I tried out enabling all the snap turn stuff but I never ended up using it, so I turned it off and just roomscale moved around.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:14
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In the heat of the match I'll physically turn around, but I found myself using the snap turning during downtime just to avoid twisting the cables.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:17
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The Walrus posted:lemming do you use the stick much in EA? I turned off all the stick options, even the one that was on by default, because using them with the vive controller was a nightmare. but wondering if I'm really losing much mobility if I have lots of room to spin quickly irl I turn myself upside down at the start of every round, but no I don't think adjusting mid round is really useful. The only thing I can think of is if you're in a certain orientation it's easier to hide your body in a wall so if you're holding the disc it's easier to juke, but they've said they're looking into working on that and it's difficult to pull off on the fly anyway.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:18
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Tons of complaints about the locomotion in GORN on the STEAM forums (I know, I know). This got a response out of Raithza:quote:Enough people are complaining that I'll look into it. But seriously, if you think you can't move to dodge easily you must be using the scheme incorrectly. I'm curious as to what people are actually doing? The agility of this system is the main benefit. Hngh not the best way way to address your playerbase really. "You're doing it wrong!" isn't really a good defense for an awkward control set, especially if there are more elegant solutions that have been proven to work in other games. I don't really use GORN's movement system to dodge or do rapid movements and I think this is the case for most players, they'd rather be using their bodies to avoid hits and use the locomotion to cross the arena. Slow armswinger would probably be ideal.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:30
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The problem when you make a game is you get used to your design and lose sense of how other people use it, I think this is how bad designs in general get left in games. The GORN movement takes getting used to, but I don't like it either- it made me decide not to get the game at all. I'd rather have d-pad movement so I can just walk around like normal.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:38
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Yeah, that sort of thinking is straight from the "solo developer" playbook, he'll get over it
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Jul 11, 2017 20:39
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I like the movement system. It does take a bit to get used to, but I like how it forces you to choose between doing effective attacks and moving, without just being able to zip around the arena with d-pad movement. It makes it feel more definite than just sliding around like a FPS protagonist. Pad movement would probably be hard to balance well, either it's a horribly slow crawl, or you could zip around avoiding every attack.
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Jul 11, 2017 20:57
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I like the movement system... in Echo Arena!
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Jul 11, 2017 21:03
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Had a buddy of mine play Gorn today and made a quick and dirty video of him going nuts. Video quality's not the best but it gets the point across www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gL6TJ6z5uc
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Jul 11, 2017 21:44
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haveblue posted:Tier 6: Dactyl Nightmare You raaang. https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1333056616777885/ The Walrus posted:I called the toll free number, spoke to a dude and told him when and where I bought it and the issue. Adjuster will be contacting me soon, I'll need to give them proof of purchase etc, then they send me money a few days after that. Pretty cool really, I'll be remembering to take advantage of this going forward. gently caress HTC. I won't ever buy another product from them. HTC seem pretty hosed in the long term. I don't think I've heard many people at all that like them, they like the vive overall, sure, but thats because they like valve. All the tech is basically just made to order from valve's specs, and even then I've heard so many complaints about controllers dying, trackpads not functioning, horrendous customer service and outrageous prices for replacements... As soon as there's any serious competition for steamVR headsets, I have a hard time imagining anyone staying loyal to HTC and not jumping ship to LG or whoever else next go around.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:18
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Rectus posted:I like the movement system. It does take a bit to get used to, but I like how it forces you to choose between doing effective attacks and moving, without just being able to zip around the arena with d-pad movement. It makes it feel more definite than just sliding around like a FPS protagonist. Pad movement would probably be hard to balance well, either it's a horribly slow crawl, or you could zip around avoiding every attack. i agree. the game would be too easy of you could just get behind people at will with zippy fps movement. and i agree with him it lets tou make more precise small movements than would be possible with trackpad movement.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:36
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Tom Guycot posted:HTC seem pretty hosed in the long term. I don't think I've heard many people at all that like them, they like the vive overall, sure, but thats because they like valve. All the tech is basically just made to order from valve's specs, and even then I've heard so many complaints about controllers dying, trackpads not functioning, horrendous customer service and outrageous prices for replacements... Definitely true for me. I've had a lot of fun with my Vive, and I think there's some great tech in there, but it's hard to imagine buying another device from HTC.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:42
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Songbearer posted:Tons of complaints about the locomotion in GORN on the STEAM forums (I know, I know). This got a response out of Raithza: Sintax posted:The problem when you make a game is you get used to your design and lose sense of how other people use it, I think this is how bad designs in general get left in games. The GORN movement takes getting used to, but I don't like it either- it made me decide not to get the game at all. I'd rather have d-pad movement so I can just walk around like normal. Ehhhh, I don't know that I would fully agree with the above sentiments. While the Gorn dev could have phrased that a helluva lot better (always avoid language that makes a player feel like they're being told they aren't skilled enough to play your game) there also comes a point where you have to decide if the 'unique thing' that's generating complaints is (A) being grasped by more people than not and (B) an important and central enough feature of your game that it's worth losing players over. I've been posting about the game I'm currently working on. We have a weapon that is essentially a tossed fireball - Hold down the trigger for 1s to charge a fireball, begin the throw, let go of the trigger, snap the wrist for distance/velocity. This makes the weapon feel more like a sling-type item than, say, throwing a baseball, because you're releasing your grip on the trigger much earlier in the throwing arc than you would normally. It's a very unique feel and different from what a lot of players initially expect - Once people "get it" they seem to like it but it's also caused a lot of confusion. We did a live demo of the game at GDC this year and, purely as an out-of-my-rear end figure, I'd say there was about a 60/40 split in terms of people who 'got' the throwing mechanic straight away vs. those who didn't; more who did than didn't, at any rate. Out of that remaining 40% a little over half again got comfortable with it after a little bit of coaching. The remainder.... I remember literally standing behind one guy, holding his hand in mine as we both gripped the Vive wand, making the throwing motion with/for him and trying to pry his finger up off the trigger button at the right time and he still just absolutely did not get it (to be fair though he didn't seem very interested in trying the game out in the first place). Again, using eyeballed figures, if we said 70% of the people who tried our game at GDC either instinctively or eventually 'got' the fireball, out of the remainder another 20% went on to have fun with the game using other weapons, and the last 10% either mentally checked out due to frustration or were otherwise just never really into it in the first place. Looking over the feedback from the trip our decision was: Do we strip some of the uniqueness from what we know and have seen to be a fun, entertaining weapon, as to make it easier to grasp by a wider audience, or do we say that uniqueness is integral to the experience, double down on it, focus on making it easier to grasp/understand, and in keeping it potentially alienate some players? (we chose the latter, for the record) I haven't had the chance to play Gorn yet and I'm not super familiar with it, but it sounds as though it's movement is a feature that's both unique and part of the core gameplay, and that a lot of the complaints it's generating seem to be coming from people who really just want Gorn to be a different game. Particularly if there are people out there who demonstratively 'get it' and are able to move around in the fashion that the developer envisions. It's like complaining about having to press down/down-forward/forward+punch to throw a fireball in Street Fighter - That's... just the game, and if you don't happen to like that control scheme then there are other games you would might enjoy more. In making games I've discovered three types of players: Those who will do what they can to learn on their own, those who will do what they can to learn by being taught, and those who aren't willing to learn. As a general rule the latter group will never come to want to play your game. There are people in the first and second category you'll lose as well, because something about the mechanics or the overall experience just never clicks for them. If you have a player in the first two categories and there's something about the gameplay they just don't *like* there's still a chance to reel them in. People learn in different ways - It's important to try to reach them in as many of those ways as possible. Include physical tutorial tests ("Move to this location, do this jump three times, etc.") as well as multiple verbal/text instructions - Try to think of as many ways to describe what the player should be doing as you can, because some people just need the right combination of words to make it click. Make sure to round out the presentation as well; include audio, visual and if possible tactile (vibration) feedback to indicate both failure and success. Particularly important to VR is looking at the actual physicality of what's happening - Very subtle things lead to a sense of disconnect/lack of immersion, which can reduce the player's capacity for learning. In particular we noticed for our fireball that the longer the 'rod' weapon model was the worse the throwing mechanic felt; keeping the fireball closer to where the player feels their hand is made the throw more natural, and shortening the length of the rod helped in getting people to understand the sort of 'fling' motion it has. If none of the above is helping start making tweaks; make adjustments to the mechanic until more people find it easy to grasp. Again, with the example of our fireball, we've noticed people not holding down the trigger long enough to get a charge, meaning they let go of the button and literally nothing happens; to make it less frustrating we've decided to change the charge mechanic. Something like that helps the round out the weapon for the player, while still not removing the skill-oriented focus of the actual toss. Ultimately we've accepted that there's going to be at least some percentage of people who play our game that will never find the same entertainment out of the fireball mechanic that we and others do. Thankfully for us that's just one weapon out of x-amount; if you don't like the fireball you can use something else. For Gorn it's a pretty central mechanic, and there will probably always be people who can't/won't/don't get into it. Again, I haven't been able to play Gorn yet (despite really wanting to) but it sounds like the movement mechanic is good, it just may bear some better presentation, polish and explanation; at least that's the route I would take, over removing it or significantly watering it down.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:08
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The Walrus posted:i agree. the game would be too easy of you could just get behind people at will with zippy fps movement. and i agree with him it lets tou make more precise small movements than would be possible with trackpad movement. I agree with all of that as well, but if he wants to sell copies he needs to have a choice between 'optimal, nausea-inducing gameplay' and 'non-optimal, comfortable gameplay'. I think he could fix it by making it less precise, if the movements of your hands were smoothed out a bit it wouldn't feel so sensitive and 'wobbly'. Like take the average of all the hand movements instead of letting slight finger movements shift the whole world. I can't play it again til he does something, between this and ADR1FT I ruined my brain yesterday. Other things like trackpad movement (Pavlov) don't bother me. Just have the movement be slower? Not hard. Correnth posted:I haven't had the chance to play Gorn yet and I'm not super familiar with it, but it sounds as though it's movement is a feature that's both unique and part of the core gameplay It isn't. He's just being precious. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 23:11
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I have had the opposite experience, I guess. HTC surprised me by coming through with the Vive months after I pre-ordered the Rift (I was an 11th minute orderer). I have had no issues with the hardware, and I've abused the poo poo out of the headset and controllers. I haven't had to deal with HTC support, but their order processing stuff worked just fine. Better than Oculus' ever did. If prices were what they were 4 days ago, I'd still recommend people to pick up a Vive if they care at all about roomscale. But, the vive isn't "twice the price" better. I've gone ahead and ordered a Rift because hell why not. I'll finally be able to do an apples to apples comparison: Rift vs Vive (with deluxe headstrap)
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Jul 11, 2017 23:12
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Chadzok posted:I agree with all of that as well, but if he wants to sell copies he needs to have a choice between 'optimal, nausea-inducing gameplay' and 'non-optimal, comfortable gameplay'. wait, did they change the movement since I last played? when last I used it it was a simple grab and drag, almost like an echo arena or climbey with no z axis.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:16
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Tibbeh posted:Had a buddy of mine play Gorn today and made a quick and dirty video of him going nuts. Video quality's not the best but it gets the point across Your buddy inspired me to whip together some casual cruelty of my own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z-LX1bMe9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kZT-2Exs0
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Jul 11, 2017 23:20
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The Walrus posted:wait, did they change the movement since I last played? when last I used it it was a simple grab and drag, almost like an echo arena or climbey with no z axis. That's correct. Maybe it's just my inner ear altering the memory but I felt like it was too sensitive to small movements of your hands.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:20
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Chadzok posted:That's correct. Maybe it's just my inner ear altering the memory but I felt like it was too sensitive to small movements of your hands. The movement isn't necessary to play most of the time anyway. I hardly use it.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:21
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Chadzok posted:That's correct. Maybe it's just my inner ear altering the memory but I felt like it was too sensitive to small movements of your hands. Hm, I'm not sure that the way I use it even allows for this to be an issue. It's not a game where you should be moving around constantly, so you shouldn't always be in 'move mode'. It's more like quick drag back out of range, drag in quickly and riposte, drag to do a quick strafe. The idea is short forceful movements in a straight line. I wonder if the people who 'get' the new controls tend to be the same people who played the itch.io demo a lot without *any* movement. Herpicle is right, you don't really need to be moving much at all. It's more than possible just to use roomscale and only use the movement when a guy is downed and out of range.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:26
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The Walrus posted:The idea is short forceful movements in a straight line. Yes, but if that's the 'idea', you could also make it the reality. Eg when you reach out and grab, you're locked to that axis/direction for that movement, and you move in a straight line towards it, rather than kinda swaying in that direction depending on how your arm moves. I dunno man, something is off about it. Echo Arena doesn't bother me one bit.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:32
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I didn't want to imply that I thought the GORN movement was bad, just that the initial impression people get is hard to compensate for. It's a learned process for movement in this case, so it doesn't come natural, but I think it's a smart system. It just kinda hurts my head, and d-pad movement would be more natural for me. It's partially done for balance and maybe the developer thinks learning the movement is part of the nuance of the game, so that's fair enough.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:36
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Chadzok posted:Yes, but if that's the 'idea', you could also make it the reality. Eg when you reach out and grab, you're locked to that axis/direction for that movement, and you move in a straight line towards it, rather than kinda swaying in that direction depending on how your arm moves. I dunno man, something is off about it. Echo Arena doesn't bother me one bit. well I'm simplifying because you do also tend to do sort of sicle shaped movements with a straight line and then an arc, to back out and then circle strafe a bit. I don't get motion sick in any VR though so I'm not the best person to judge the illness related aspect of it. I'm gonna go play now and see if I notice this sensitivity you're talking about, I'm curious in related news i decided to try plugging in my dead controller one more time and for whatever reason it now works fine. I don't even
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Jul 11, 2017 23:39
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Correnth posted:Ehhhh, I don't know that I would fully agree with the above sentiments. While the Gorn dev could have phrased that a helluva lot better (always avoid language that makes a player feel like they're being told they aren't skilled enough to play your game) there also comes a point where you have to decide if the 'unique thing' that's generating complaints is (A) being grasped by more people than not and (B) an important and central enough feature of your game that it's worth losing players over. I don't know what things you tried out, but it sounds like the problem would be eliminated if visually it didn't look like you were holding something l to throw. I think that builds up a lot of muscle memory and instinct on how an object should act, whereas having the spell look like a fire sling dangling from your hand instead of in it for example would make people not expect it to behave like a ball they're holding. Seems like that would be a simple solution to everyone that had trouble with it.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:43
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Gorn is absolutely wild, built up a thick sweat grinding to unlock the sword. Amazing how every weapon requires a totally different play style, the spear was my favorite with how you could shoot the tip out. Kicked my rear end for sure.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:39
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Has anyone in here had any horizon tilt issues with their Rift while building up a sweat? I've been having to use this stupid IMU calibration tool more and more often lately (undoubtedly because it's summer), and I basically can't play Knockout League or Thrill of the Fight (even Audioshield and Soundboxing) any more because it just goes 45 degrees on me. I realize 99% of people who own VR just stop playing when they get uncomfortable but I was really looking forward to getting good workouts with this thing 
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Jul 12, 2017 01:38
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Taintrunner posted:Gorn is absolutely wild, built up a thick sweat grinding to unlock the sword. Amazing how every weapon requires a totally different play style, the spear was my favorite with how you could shoot the tip out. Kicked my rear end for sure. And when you have unlocked most of the weapons you'll have a helluva time choosing between them. Endless Mode is where it's at, nothing like having all the time in the world to cleave through endless big dudes. Don't forget to flip off the crowd for a few seconds to get a unique weapon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQt0ojhYM8M
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Jul 12, 2017 01:54
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Did the prescription lens covers ever get better?
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Jul 12, 2017 02:37
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mellowjournalism posted:Has anyone in here had any horizon tilt issues with their Rift while building up a sweat? I've been having to use this stupid IMU calibration tool more and more often lately (undoubtedly because it's summer), and I basically can't play Knockout League or Thrill of the Fight (even Audioshield and Soundboxing) any more because it just goes 45 degrees on me. I realize 99% of people who own VR just stop playing when they get uncomfortable but I was really looking forward to getting good workouts with this thing Not at all. Are your cameras moving around? If not, I would contact Oculus Support. It might be an RMA issue.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:46
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Tom Guycot posted:
I love my Vive, but the only thing it has going for it right now compared to Rift is not having to worry about the loving USB chip set of your motherboard if you want to room-scale. I'm definitely looking forward to gen 1.5 or gen 2 to see what the competition can do for a new de facto Steam headset.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:25
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What should I be aware of if I go with three sensors on my new Oculus? I've got a 2600k here on a P67 chipset.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:48
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I'm personally using Rift these days for the nice screen (I just prefer it) and the Touch controllers until Knuckles come out, at which point I'll probably sell it and hopefully buy the LG hmd with that sweet welder hinge (if it's good) and sell the HTC and just keep the lighthouses. (I totally told my friend I'd send him the rift and...  )Nalin posted:Not at all. Are your cameras moving around? If not, I would contact Oculus Support. It might be an RMA issue. Nope, I always check too but they're solid, and I'm redoing sensor setup often to try to eliminate that variable. I'm not looking forward to cajoling Oculus into an RMA because gently caress me if they didn't give me the most obnoxious runaround last time I brought this up, stalling me for at least 2 weeks before sending me that exact tool all zipped up with a bunch of fancy talk when I had already found it on that page on day one. Judging by the Oculus forum threads about this issue with basically no official response, they very very obviously do not want to admit that this is a problem. Dark ages of VR I tell ya
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Jul 12, 2017 04:51
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The first 2nd gen headset to market is going to make some serious dough. I for one would upgrade for better screens in a heartbeat even if they were being churned out by josef mengele. Totally jealous of all the Valve and Oculus technicians that you just know are right now wandering around the same Rec Room as you in their top secret 4K wireless full-skeleton tracking setups.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:31
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Chadzok posted:The first 2nd gen headset to market is going to make some serious dough. I for one would upgrade for better screens in a heartbeat even if they were being churned out by josef mengele. Totally jealous of all the Valve and Oculus technicians that you just know are right now wandering around the same Rec Room as you in their top secret 4K wireless full-skeleton tracking setups. Even if you had a 4k headset, do you have the video card and computer to drive it? Even if you had full-skeleton tracking do you have any games that would use that input? Not really much point being ahead of the curve right now.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:41
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Zaphod42 posted:Even if you had a 4k headset, do you have the video card and computer to drive it? Even if you had full-skeleton tracking do you have any games that would use that input? A 2nd Gen 4k headset would probably have Foveated Rendering, wouldn't it?
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Jul 12, 2017 05:49
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I wouldn't mind a headset having a 4k display without the games using it just for movie watching and general computer usage.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:51
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