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Irony Be My Shield posted:There's also the fact that FPS games are still politically controversial to some extent. It probably won't be as bad for Overwatch as it would be for a more "realistic" shooter like CSGO but I imagine there'll still be scaremongering stories about Overwatch-inspired katana attacks or whatever. Nah, it'll totally be some teen taking the reaper joke at face value. Or a roomba gunning down an elderly german.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:08
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I watched this and now you will too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABw85VHDc3I.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:15
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I just want a dynamic set of camera choices. There are popular flanks and approaches, right? People who are familiar with the game should be able to mention when to switch to those, you have a birdseye on the cap points/payload path and the ability to switch between 3rd person for any given hero. Set it up with hotkeys, what have you.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:17
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Manatee Cannon posted:idk that a shooter can be both fun and a a spectator experience at the level of an actual sport. it's much easier to follow the action on a flat plain than it it a map designed to be fun to play for an fps game I feel the total opposite to this. LoL/DotA just comes across as nerd poo poo and is almost entirely unappreciable for people unfamiliar with the mechanics. It has to be something simple and easy to follow.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:21
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well you say that but they get literally a million viewers or more for their big events. it's slow and the map is a flat plain so there's nothing blocking your view or cutting the action up. some people don't like the first person view as well, tho I don't think bird's eye works that well for shooters unless you're using it sparingly it is kind of a problem that you can't really appreciate big individual plays that showcase skill without a first person view, but first person provides a very limited perspective on the fight as a whole
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Jul 12, 2017 23:32
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Manatee Cannon posted:well you say that but they get literally a million viewers or more for their big events. it's slow and the map is a flat plain so there's nothing blocking your view or cutting the action up. some people don't like the first person view as well, tho I don't think bird's eye works that well for shooters unless you're using it sparingly And everyone looks stupid in any other view. Yeah runnin n gunnin 76 dodgin rockets and snipers looks badass through his eyes, but he looks like a broken as all gently caress generic enemy from a PS1 game. No matter how loud the announcers get, you're still watching mans bouncing up and down and wiggling left and right in mid air, turning around like hes on a record player.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:41
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Save the replay, broadcast all games as hollywood re-enactments.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:43
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Manatee Cannon posted:well you say that but they get literally a million viewers or more for their big events. it's slow and the map is a flat plain so there's nothing blocking your view or cutting the action up. some people don't like the first person view as well, tho I don't think bird's eye works that well for shooters unless you're using it sparingly But when you compare the player counts CS:GO eSports stuff (in the West) absolutely blows other games out of the water, proportionally speaking. The player base of CS:GO is a fraction of LoL, yet the last Major (of which there are 4 per year compared to only one in LoL) broke the concurrent viewer record on Twitch. In terms of 'eSports hours watched' compared to casual viewership of a game in general on Twitch, CS:GO is probably twice as viewed as LoL. That basically says CS:GO as an eSport attracts a lot more viewers from outside.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:48
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but csgo has super fast kills and huge upset carries where a pro goes 1v3 and wins which would make the players feel bad 
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Jul 13, 2017 00:00
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Kassoon posted:but csgo has super fast kills and huge upset carries where a pro goes 1v3 and wins which would make the players feel bad I still maintain that CSGO is the football of e-sports. It has clearly delineated plays revolving around short bursts of action. It has time for instant replays built in, and a good amount of time for analysts to explain the thought process and decision making that teams go through. LoL and DoTA have easy to follow action and their slower paces gives time for analysis and etc also. Overwatch is basically 100% go for like 8 minutes at a time. It's like tennis, except you're playing 6 matches simultaneously and there's ultimates.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:14
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Now I want Overwatch Tennis. With ultimates.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:19
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pzy posted:Now I want Overwatch Tennis. With ultimates. You can play Roadhog vollyball with Lucio, but his ultimate doesn't really help.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:22
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Jeza posted:But when you compare the player counts CS:GO eSports stuff (in the West) absolutely blows other games out of the water, proportionally speaking. The player base of CS:GO is a fraction of LoL, yet the last Major (of which there are 4 per year compared to only one in LoL) broke the concurrent viewer record on Twitch. In terms of 'eSports hours watched' compared to casual viewership of a game in general on Twitch, CS:GO is probably twice as viewed as LoL. That basically says CS:GO as an eSport attracts a lot more viewers from outside. I don't think this necessarily contradicts the underlying thesis, though. CS:GO's movement is slower and simpler than a lot of other shooters, and as a consequence the maps are flatter and more straightforward.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:26
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Doomfist skins. Didn't see em posted earlier. http://imgur.com/a/ZNEsS
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Jul 13, 2017 01:10
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I like painted and spirit a lot. are the rest of his cosmetics up on ptr?
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Jul 13, 2017 01:12
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Games aiming at being an eSport should really consider separate 'pro' modes that have different mechanical requirements and/or balance. This works around the issue that design for a great competitive game sometimes conflicts with design for a game with mass appeal. If you think about it, this sort of exists in many popular sports. Kids typically play on smaller fields with modified rules. Rec leagues also generally differ from their pro counterparts. This is especially true with contact sports like football and hockey. Adults playing organized football for fun are almost always playing some sort of flag football. Rec league hockey doesn't allow the same level of checking that you see in the NHL (and the more casual/lower skill the league, the more strict the rules and reffing related to checking become).
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Jul 13, 2017 01:24
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Splinter posted:Games aiming at being an eSport should really consider separate 'pro' modes that have different mechanical requirements and/or balance. This works around the issue that design for a great competitive game sometimes conflicts with design for a game with mass appeal. I cannot imagine that having multiple versions of Overwatch running on different rules and stats would improve Blizzard's ability to make timely, well thought out balance and design changes.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:31
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having a different set of rules is part of what killed tf2 as a spectator sport you can't do a separate ruleset that works differently. football works the same no matter what level you're playing it at; you don't have to relearn how to play the game when you go from amateur to professional football. that makes it harder for spectators to get into and means less people are gonna make the jump from their casual games to trying their hand at real competition
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Jul 13, 2017 01:35
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Overwatch derives a lot of its mass appeal from the fact that casual players are playing the same game as the pros. The notion that there's a smooth gradient from your average player to an eSports pro, and that this mountain is climbable, is what gets people invested in comp mode. If they made an alternate mode where the characters are balanced differently, and designated that mode as the game's kiddie pool, no one would want to play it just based on stigma alone.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:37
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Zarya's ult will now disable movement abilities for anyone caught inside of it. McCree's flashbang will also slow people who are hit, so they don't go sliding. Reaper's teleport will be less loud. Reinhart will swing faster and charging a charging character will no longer damage both, but still knock both down. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757587228
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Jul 13, 2017 03:16
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Because Graviton needed to be even better? Like, aren't you now stuck exclusively with Transcendence and Res (if you're mercy isn't caught as well) as counters?
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Jul 13, 2017 03:27
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Kassoon posted:If you want to see the spooky ghost of christmas future just go look at wow pvp or heroes of the storm Actually, just look at Heroes of the Storm. Geoff was the the head of the QA department responsible for balance changes until Jeff pulled him off of it to bring him onto Overwatch.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:28
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FaustianQ posted:Because Graviton needed to be even better? Like, aren't you now stuck exclusively with Transcendence and Res (if you're mercy isn't caught as well) as counters? Grav is really bad against dive comp in general since everyone is spread the gently caress out and half the comp can just escape it. It was also borderline useless against a team running a Mercy because unless you landed a 6 man grav the Mercy would just fly out of it anyway.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:33
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I don't think games being complicated and hard to parse with no prior experience is what prevents people from watching them tbh given that I completely don't understand how Cricket works at all and that doesn't seem to stop half my country from being excited about it.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:34
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Bolow posted:Grav is really bad against dive comp in general since everyone is spread the gently caress out and half the comp can just escape it. It was also borderline useless against a team running a Mercy because unless you landed a 6 man grav the Mercy would just fly out of it anyway. Yeah but it does mean that Mercy is a required component of Dive then, running Zenyatta means Zarya's team runs Ana so no one will run Zenyatta I think.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:37
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ToastyPotato posted:Zarya's ult will now disable movement abilities for anyone caught inside of it loving finally. If Winston and his rocket jets can't escape it then nobody should. Always irritated me.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:37
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Father Wendigo posted:Actually, just look at Heroes of the Storm. Geoff was the the head of the QA department responsible for balance changes until Jeff pulled him off of it to bring him onto Overwatch. Have things changed substantially since he left? I ask as someone who is a casual dabbler in HotS at most.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:42
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FaustianQ posted:Yeah but it does mean that Mercy is a required component of Dive then, running Zenyatta means Zarya's team runs Ana so no one will run Zenyatta I think. No it doesn't? Zarya is still mediocre vs dive due to short fight lengths and low mobility. Grav getting buffed isn't going to help her get ult any faster, or overcome those issues.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:48
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Bolow posted:No it doesn't? Zarya is still mediocre vs dive due to short fight lengths and low mobility. Grav getting buffed isn't going to help her get ult any faster, or overcome those issues. I thought Zarya was a component of Dive, or is that just a very specific flavor? Like I remember old dive as Winston-Zarya-Genji-Tracer-Lucio-Zenyatta, and I've seen new dive be Winston-Dva-Genji-Tracer-Lucio-Mercy but Zarya still on flex because she can poo poo on Genji and Dva. EmpyreanFlux fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 03:51
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D.Va has supplanted Zarya in every instance except for a few niche picks on like King's Row. D.Va is just straight up better at doing Zarya's job since the DM buff.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:53
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Manatee Cannon posted:football works the same no matter what level you're playing it at; you don't have to relearn how to play the game when you go from amateur to professional football. It doesn't though. Even college has different rules. At lower skill/competition levels there are even more differences (e.g. flag football). It doesn't harm the ability for casual players to spectate pro games. In the hockey world there's roller hockey which is 4v4 on a smaller rink with no offsides or icing but it still feels like hockey and doesn't hinder players from following and appreciating the NHL. I'm not suggesting any specific changes or even at what level the differences should take effect, but there is definitely a way to do it where the casual version is still unmistakably OW and doesn't worsen the spectator experience. I assume most of us here are at least mid-core gamers, probably play comp and are focused on improving. We aren't the target demographic of multiple modes. Pretty much everyone playing OW right now came to this game as a gamer rather than a spectator. If the game truly blows up as an eSport there will be a lot of people interested in playing that were spectators first, many of whom have a much more casual gaming background. Having a version of the game that is accessible to this casual audience will help build long term interest in the game and increase the talent pool. Ideally you don't need mixed modes to accomplish this, but many people seem to think great eSport and accessibility are conflicting design goals. I'm not saying this is a sure fire way to build a hugely popular eSport with longevity, but I do think some of you are too quick to write this off as something that could never work. Finally, I was actually thinking more about Brood War than OW when I made my original post. The insane amount of mechanical practice it takes to get to the point where basic strategy even comes into play is IMO a big reason why competitive BW never took off in the West. When Remastered is released there are going to be a lot of people interested in ladder that never played competitively when they were younger that are going to 'nope' the gently caress out once they realize how much mechanical practice they need. If there was a mode with a few minor interface improvements, I could definitely get some gamer friends into it, but as-is there's no way. Just split waypoints with auto-mine and maybe MBS (not talking full SC2 level changes) would make the game so much more accessible without really changing how the game is played. Obviously OW's eSport issues are completely different than BW's, but I think BW is a good example of how multiple modes could help popularity.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:54
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It's going to be unpopular but I think DM needs a nerf if it can be so meta warping. Like I know Dva is basically useful because of DM but it has been a part of each major meta because it's just that drat good.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:55
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that reaper change has been needed for ages. doubt it'll be enough but it's nice that it's finally here. I'd also like it if they made the cast time shorter so you weren't vulnerable as long but hey, baby stepsFaustianQ posted:I thought Zarya was a component of Dive, or is that just a very specific flavor? Like I remember old dive as Winston-Zarya-Genji-Tracer-Lucio-Zenyatta, and I've seen new dive be Winston-Dva-Genji-Tracer-Lucio-Mercy but Zarya still on flex because she can poo poo on Genji and Dva. she was in the old dive from over half a year ago but that was before dva was good. atm she's crowded out by winston/d.va rein and zarya are both heroes that used to be top tier but currently are middling (zarya) or outright bad (rein, especially after doomfist goes live)
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Jul 13, 2017 03:56
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Manatee Cannon posted:that reaper change has been needed for ages. doubt it'll be enough but it's nice that it's finally here. I'd also like it if they made the cast time shorter so you weren't vulnerable as long but hey, baby steps Allowing casting from wraith form would also be good. Question, how much would you have to buff crowd control to properly counter Dive?
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Jul 13, 2017 04:01
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FaustianQ posted:It's going to be unpopular but I think DM needs a nerf if it can be so meta warping. Like I know Dva is basically useful because of DM but it has been a part of each major meta because it's just that drat good. On the other hand, nerfing defense matrix at this point would basically be nerfing the one major thing D.Va is good at anymore since they nerfed her damage, nerfed her durability, and Geoff Goodman released a statement essentially to the effect of "we want D.Va to be a defense matrix on legs, sorry." I think what would be better imo is for Blizzard to introduce more interesting character options that defense matrix doesn't work against to allow for more varied strategies. I'm not saying that Doomfist is going to become some amazing D.Va counter but he's a character who mostly doesn't give a single poo poo about it, D.Va can't flash her matrix over him and prevent him from punching one of her squishy teammates into the wall. Obviously an all melee lineup is probably not in the cards but if, for example, Zarya comes back into prominence and Doomfist is legit good then it's easy to envision a scenario where D.Va's pickrate cools off with no nerfs required (see Reinhardt for an example of this in action).
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Jul 13, 2017 04:04
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I play a lot of Zarya at scrub levels and I am very jazzed about this. Half of the character roster gives no shits about her ult and the rest of the time all you’re doing is baiting out the Mercy rez so you can just kill everyone again.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:05
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Jeez even tracer can't recall out. Best ultimate in the game just got even nuttier.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:06
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FaustianQ posted:Allowing casting from wraith form would also be good. a dive isn't crowding together in the first place so idk if that's the right direction to go in the first place. the last time dive died, it was because dps heroes couldn't out damage the healing ana did to tanks. so either you'd need an effective way to pick apart a dive (which doomfist seems good for from what I've heard) or you'd need to outlast them (which is how the tank meta formed last year)
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Jul 13, 2017 04:08
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The actual answer to how you counter a dive comp used to be picking Roadhog but WELP
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Jul 13, 2017 04:09
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Kai Tave posted:On the other hand, nerfing defense matrix at this point would basically be nerfing the one major thing D.Va is good at anymore since they nerfed her damage, nerfed her durability, and Geoff Goodman released a statement essentially to the effect of "we want D.Va to be a defense matrix on legs, sorry." I don't disagree, and am not trying to say Dva should be flat nerfed, just that DM is so loving good that it becomes consistently problematic in any meta, and maybe they should take a look at that? I'm not sure Doomfist is going to force Dva out at all, Doomfist seems to be a great dive character who is great against things that aren't Dive. Manatee Cannon posted:a dive isn't crowding together in the first place so idk if that's the right direction to go in the first place. the last time dive died, it was because dps heroes couldn't out damage the healing ana did to tanks. so either you'd need an effective way to pick apart a dive (which doomfist seems good for from what I've heard) or you'd need to outlast them (which is how the tank meta formed last year) I mean, like Flashbang, Hook, Steel Trap, etc which I believe still fall under CC? EmpyreanFlux fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 04:11
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