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Alpha Mayo posted:I've seen a surprising amount of coop play with his lurking arm, even in QM. Lurking arm is the best. I've had the most success getting all the talents to make it bigger/longer range/last even after you stop channeling. On towers of doom it was hilarious.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:19
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Elysium posted:You know what's annoying as gently caress, Stukov dropping his lurking arm on Chromie's temporal loop spot. The Stukovs I queue into never do this. 
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Jul 13, 2017 06:38
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Onean posted:I know this is, like, your thing, but yeesh. Finding and fixing bugs isn't nearly as foolproof as you seem to think it is. Yeah, give indie dev-house Blizzard-Activision a break! Even if they had the manpower to patch their games it's not like they've got the infrastructure in place so players can test things before they're pushed onto live.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:57
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President Ark posted:if you're playing correctly and not tilting then over time you'll win more than you lose because there's only a 4/9 chance of the fucktard being on your team but a 5/9 chance of them being on the enemy team This falls in line with another nugget of MOBA wisdom "the only consistent part of every match you play is YOU". It's pointless to dwell on what others did wrong, it's better to focus on self improvement. Even with games that are a clowncar of clusterfucks, look for that one small thing you could have done better. Recalled to base when the healing fountain would have sufficed for the next battle? Picked up a health globe that led to you being attacked and losing half your health bar? Moved to a different lane for a potential teamfight when that fight didn't come until a half minute later, so you could have pushed the lane some more? Small things like that won't directly win you the game, but they help you improve. And being a better player will win you more games in the long run.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:53
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There's way more than one fucktard per game in bronze. If you're even halfway competent your edge should be huge.
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Jul 13, 2017 08:10
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Coolness Averted posted:Yeah, give indie dev-house Blizzard-Activision a break! Even if they had the manpower to patch their games it's not like they've got the infrastructure in place so players can test things before they're pushed onto live. That's not at all what I mean. It doesn't matter how big your dev team or what the system is, a program of any kind is going to have bugs. The hotel I work at uses an online management system, used by hundreds of thousands of properties, that pushed an update a while ago that added the hotel name to a certain screen in addition to other changes and additions. On that screen right-click now no longer works on one object but continues to work on every other object. It's possible, even likely, that any of the other changes pushed in that update are at fault instead. What actually matters is how important the bugs are and how quickly they get fixed. Critically important bugs, those that cause client crashes, slowdowns or seriously effect the ability to actually play the game across the entire roster, are pretty rare because that's the stuff the QA team is looking for and the stuff the programmers focus their time and attention on. Other bugs that aren't critical slip through, because in the end they aren't going to break anyone's client and will likely be fixed within a few weeks, if not sooner. I recommend checking out Riot's post about the 2015 Recall bug that forced them to disable Ranked for over 24 hours. There's also this Crash Bandicoot bug that would corrupt and wipe your save card that took over 6 weeks to figure out. These are just a tiny taste of what it's like, and with so much more going on behind the scenes we never know about I don't look down on any development team just because of the bugs that slip through and make it to us. As for your second point, that actually needs people to play extensively in the PTR, which they don't. Unless it's a big deal, like 2.0, you can get a not-excruciating experience on Monday and Tuesday, but by Wednesday it's dead and pretty much useless. Just having a system in place doesn't matter if it's not used. Edit: And even things that are reported on the PTR could get delayed. They only have a week, at most, for people to analyze, reproduce, fix, test, fix any new bugs, test again, and so on. At some point they have to stop and push something live, leaving the rest to be fixed in the next patch. We don't know, maybe these issues were fixed in a build, but the build had a new issue, like ranged attacks were doing 4 times as much damage as they should for example, and the team couldn't get a fix for it ready in time for launch. Onean fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 08:47
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Onean posted:As for your second point, that actually needs people to play extensively in the PTR, which they don't. Unless it's a big deal, like 2.0, you can get a not-excruciating experience on Monday and Tuesday, but by Wednesday it's dead and pretty much useless. Just having a system in place doesn't matter if it's not used. I'm gonna comment on this part in particular because there's a lot of overlap in this regard with Overwatch, another Blizzard game with a PTR with which I have way more experience. Blizzard does absolutely gently caress-all to incentivize people to play on the PTR. Like none whatsoever. It's a separate server from the main one which means nothing you accrue or accumulate transfers over, no XP, no cosmetics, no nothing. There's zero point playing competitive modes on the PTR because, again, nothing transfers over so people have no incentive not to throw or quit if they can't play the one new thing everyone is using the PTR for. It also doesn't help matters that, at least in Overwatch, Blizzard has made it abundantly clear that they don't give a poo poo about anything other than using the PTR for bug testing, which boils down to Blizzard wanting its playerbase to spend time being unpaid bug testers for absolutely zero recompense other than, I guess, the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes with being a Blizzard enthusiast. Now I'm not precisely sure what the solution to this would be, but ultimately if the PTR isn't a very worthwhile resource I have to feel like the fault there lies with Blizzard for putting a thing out there that nobody really has any reason to interact with beyond the time it takes to preview the new things coming out before they get patched to live. If they want people to use the PTR more they're going to have to find a way to encourage them to do so beyond abstract "well it might maybe help us fix some bugs an indeterminate amount of time faster, hypothetically."
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Jul 13, 2017 09:08
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Kai Tave posted:I'm gonna comment on this part in particular because there's a lot of overlap in this regard with Overwatch, another Blizzard game with a PTR with which I have way more experience. There is a very small incentive in being able to play the new hero or reworks to any old heroes before any of it goes live, but you still have to actually pay for the new hero, and the population on the realm is so low you can't actually get a good set of games going. They could make the new hero free on the PTR, which might help a bit while introducing new problems like even more salty behavior if someone can't pick what they want. Straight up syncing progress on the PTR and live realms wouldn't be 100% viable either because if there was something stupidly broken (Stukov's healing benefiting from a talent baseline or one of Valeera's activatable talents having zero cooldown allowing for a permanent slow, and those are just a couple of things that actually happened) they'd have to roll back any Ranked progress, and anyone serious about the mode would stick to live rather than take the risk of waiting their time. It's a system players asked for, Blizzard provided and works okay for WoW, mostly due to the community and mindset already in place plus the ability for most changes to be simmed rather than tested across dozens of games. For the rest of Blizzard's games it doesn't quite meet expectations. It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation right now.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:45
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Onean posted:There is a very small incentive in being able to play the new hero or reworks to any old heroes before any of it goes live, but you still have to actually pay for the new hero, and the population on the realm is so low you can't actually get a good set of games going. Holy lol I didn't even consider that aspect, I'm coming at it from Overwatch where all new heroes are free. They actually make you buy PTR heroes with PTR gold? Incredible.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:48
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I'm not 100% sure how it works since 2.0 came out and while they were testing that you couldn't spend real money, but before you had to pay real money to unlock the hero. It would unlock them on both the PTR and live when they released, though.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:54
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I believe that you get a quest to play x games on the PTR that rewards enough gems to buy the hero there
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Jul 13, 2017 10:31
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That's right. They want you to play 3 games before you have enough game currency to unlock a hero. edit. I forgot that I had already complained about this in this thread. Will spare you reading it again. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 12:31
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Pesterchum posted:I believe that you get a quest to play x games on the PTR that rewards enough gems to buy the hero there That's pretty good, isn't it? Encourages people to test whatever other changes are on the PTR then basically rewards them with the new hero.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:35
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You can craft event items using shards but they're going to stay at the first-two-week premium price the whole time, so if you were waiting for a price drop then gently caress you I guess.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:29
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blastron posted:You're thinking of Legendary skins, which only sometimes have different VO but usually have different special effects. No, I'm thinking of Epic skins, because I can't keep this rarity system straight. Either way, that special Bone Spear is what makes the skin "Epic" rather than Rare. W.T. Fits posted:Skins that have changed effects/animations/voice overs will explicitly state that they have those things on the store page for the skin. Xul's Bone Visage skins don't have that. You're right that it's not mentioned, but uh  I tested every ability available to the hero and that was the only difference.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:39
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That's not even made of bone at all! You should get a refund.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:45
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Bloody Pom posted:High gold/low plat is 'average' for this game, so if you're in Bronze you either had awful luck during placement or you're there for a reason. Bummer. I got 7/10 placement wins and still in Bronze. 
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Jul 13, 2017 14:01
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Donnerberg posted:That's right. They want you to play 3 games before you have enough game currency to unlock a hero. It encourages people to actually play other heroes in the PTR. It would literally never work if every single person only loaded up the PTR to try out the new hero.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:08
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Elysium posted:It encourages people to actually play other heroes in the PTR. It would literally never work if every single person only loaded up the PTR to try out the new hero. I get your reasoning, but I disagree that it's necessary. They're not testing for balance on PTR, and they don't need the matches to reflect live. The low-stakes of PTR ranked means you get a lot of goofy comps and plays. They want to catch last minute bugs and crashes introduced by new or changed heroes. They could unlock everything or do 5v5 unlimited heroes and still get what they're looking for. Of course, extreme winrates on new or changed heroes is meaningful to them, but I think that's a secondary concern to glitches that they could only find from having the public try out new stuff. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 14:17
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I don't see what the point of PTR is this or almost any other game. I've never seen a game where the PTR player base actually had a significant population. Bug testing is almost always better done in-house. Releasing a new character in a multiplayer game you can't really tune it for balance until you let the entire population of the game play it live and you have that enormous sample of data to see what works and what doesn't. I can't imagine there are people who actually exist who join the PTR and then do quality bug testing and code feedback for Blizzard out of their own free time, but if there are they just should get hired.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:21
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It depends on how many testers are available. If there's some bug that requires a lot of moving parts, you might not see it before the public accidentally gets all the conditions right just be the sheer volume of people who'll be doing all kinds of unexpected things.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:27
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PTR discovered a critical bug before Stukov was released: In the PTR, the quest that increases the Bio-Kill Switch health restoration for the Healing Pathogen by 50% was given by default. As in, you didn't have to complete the quest - you just got a 50% increase to one of the better burst heals in the game at level 4. Ultimately, the PTR serves two purposes: 1) For players to try out the new hero in the wild rather than just beating up Arthas in Try Mode, allowing them to get a much better feel for what the character is and is not good at. It's essentially a mass free trial for the Shiny New Thing. 2) Like it or not, each tester is going to approach the game in a specific way, and as such not everyone is going to pick the same talents or builds. I mean, they should test every talent and combination, but that's wishful thinking. The PTR throws warm bodies at the problem, saving a massive amount of the tester's time because so many people are going to be eager to experiment.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:30
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Libertine posted:I can't imagine Seems so.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:31
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Donnerberg posted:They're not testing for balance on PTR, and they don't need the matches to reflect live. First you need to have matches. No one wants 5000s queues.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:38
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skipThings posted:No need to complain, it's juts so enjoyable to go on a ride with stukov's wild arm, getting pushed along at breakneck speed I was in a match as Gul'Dan where I got caught out pushing with mercs to make some ground while the rest of the team was poking/distracting in n another lane. Their Genji dashes all the way up to try to gank me, I end up laughing in his face and get so caught up draining his health and taking him out that I didn't see the entire enemy murderball come up to crush me while my team had retreated to get mercs off a fort. Thought I was done for until the enemy Stukov lent me a helping hand and shoved me all the way back to our start before their Li-Ming could finish my last sliver of health. Wish I could have thanked him. I can only imagine their team chat.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:02
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Onean posted:I know this is, like, your thing, but yeesh. Finding and fixing bugs isn't nearly as foolproof as you seem to think it is. I mean, yes, that's what I'm saying? 
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Jul 13, 2017 15:11
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Also, lol at the new Hanamura without sappers: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6mzxc5/new_hanamura_with_the_latest_patch_is_working_as/ There's no way to naturally end the game so if one team is stomping they can just camp the spawn doors as long as they want as long as they don't cap a payload.  They need to loving scrap this map and start over. At least take it out of the goddamn ranked rotation!! beejay fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 15:27
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Thanks echo pedal! http://i.imgur.com/rXlryqi.gifv
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Jul 13, 2017 15:30
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Why did they even get rid of the sappers? Was just laning and ignoring the objectives that much of a problem? What's the point of the bases now?
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Jul 13, 2017 15:31
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Blizzard read all of the complaints on Hanamura and came to the conclusion "Players want longer games on this map" and thus made a bunch of dumb and pointless changes that make games longer and potentially infinitely long!
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Jul 13, 2017 15:34
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beejay posted:Also, lol at the new Hanamura without sappers: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6mzxc5/new_hanamura_with_the_latest_patch_is_working_as/ idgi, you can do that on half of the maps in the game already? If you have 5 people who all want to drag it out forever and the enemy team was unable to ever win a teamfight. No one ever does though, because... why would you...
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Jul 13, 2017 15:34
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On other maps there are minions that will end the game. Except towers of doom but on that map there are 3 exits from the base plus the sewer that goes to the middle of the map so you can at least get out.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:36
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Gustav posted:idgi, you can do that on half of the maps in the game already? If you have 5 people who all want to drag it out forever and the enemy team was unable to ever win a teamfight. No one ever does though, because... why would you... Now if you can push to that point, you'll have keeps down so that there's catapults in the lane. Eventually those lanes will push to the core, and eventually they will add up enough core damage to end the game. Even if your team just hangs out outside of core range and avoids even killing their minions and they just sit in spawn you'll eventually win once you've got their keeps down.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:39
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I can't think of anything you can to force the enemy team's minions to destroy your keep if the enemy team is a) crushing you and b) committed to stalling out the game forever.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:40
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Well I don't think it could happen that badly on another map but I also don't feel like arguing that because it detracts from the main point: Hanamura is a poo poo map that should be deleted.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:42
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Well that's certainly true but we have enough reasons for that already, this one seems like a stretch.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:45
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Gustav posted:I can't think of anything you can to force the enemy team's minions to destroy your keep if the enemy team is a) crushing you and b) committed to stalling out the game forever. Not true at all. If the enemy team wants to A) stall game for exp and B) make sure you don't have a chance to comeback, there's no strategy they can use on other maps that doesn't lead to victory in 20 minutes or a chance for a comeback. If you're on the receiving end, and you hold all your heroes in spawn to intentionally end it, catas will end the game at 20 minutes. There's no way for the enemy to effectively stall beyond that, save on Hanamura. As stated, ToD doesn't have this but you can actually come back on that map.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:02
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ok, then we're back to idgi... You all respawn, you regroup, and you go out of whichever entrance they aren't camping, and you fight. Maybe you'll lose every single team fight, in which case you will never get your comeback (on any map). Alternatively you'll eventually win one, in which case you can run out and do some map objectives. What is it about Hanamura that precludes the chance for a comeback against a stalling team?
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Jul 13, 2017 16:13
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From the link: Yeah, that Alarak can pretty much hold one of the exits by himself, once the snowball begins.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:46
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I imagine they broke out eventually somehow and maybe they got to push one payload for a little while before the other team respawned, got bored and got their one remaining point. Map bad.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:03
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