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Kunster posted:This is a good piece written by the other head of POE, which might explain the whole ordeal sort of faded away. The general thing seems to be that more or less everyone on those moved on to more legitimate fronts. I thought the precursors to GamerGate was outlets like Polygon and Kotaku becoming so regressive leftist in content and 4chan taking a hard turn to the right and /pol/ egging /v/ on with daily Kotaku hate threads and other bait threads
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Jul 14, 2017 17:49
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MariusLecter posted:Let god sort em out. Exactly. God forbid we paint racists with a broad brush.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:54
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"regressive leftist"
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Jul 14, 2017 18:01
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His stance was less barbs at either and more of an explanation of how he and POE and affliates in general ended up at. They moved on from that stuff and used the experience writing on that and other outlets to build their brand somewhere. By 2003 or so you already had other avenues to find weird poo poo online, probably with less moderation/general rules of engagement. Plus when I said "legitimate fronts" I meant that Seanbaby's and John Cheese and others' writing careers didn't necessarily die when POE fell down.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:02
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No no no. GG was totally about games journalism. Which is why they mainly targeted a woman who talked about misogyny in games and another woman who made a free to play game about depression and not games journalists. It wasn't at all a reflection of how nerd cults actively tries to exclude minorities and women you guys! I don't get why people are still so angry about games journalism. There's a thousand reviewers out there who probably fits your taste. Why put any effort into the ones who dont? Wasn't Jontron on the pro gamergate side even though he also got games straight from the publishers?
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Jul 14, 2017 18:03
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The biggest thing that pisses me off is the (probably intentional) misunderstanding of the oft feared "Gamers are dead" article. The article was about how "gamer" as a term wasn't really appropriate anymore as everyone and your grandma now plays games of some kind, like cell phone games. It wasn't an attack on anyone. But the GGers didn't read past the headline and went "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I'm a gamer and I'm not dead!"
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Jul 14, 2017 18:06
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WampaLord posted:The biggest thing that pisses me off is the (probably intentional) misunderstanding of the oft feared "Gamers are dead" article. The article was about how "gamer" as a term wasn't really appropriate anymore as everyone and your grandma now plays games of some kind, like cell phone games. It wasn't an attack on anyone. I don't know. When you think about it, it makes total sense to try to be taken seriously by being a huge dumb baby. "gently caress your stupid artsy indiegames! Games are only meant to be fun!... Hey wait why aren't you taking my cries for legit games journalism seriously???"
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Jul 14, 2017 18:12
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"Gamer" might as well be a term that is equivalent to "film buff" nowadays. Everybody plays games in one shape or another, but there are also gamers, who know a lot about games and game designers and so on.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:19
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and much like film buff it only is actually used as a title by insufferable assholes
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Jul 14, 2017 18:30
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Kunster posted:His stance was less barbs at either and more of an explanation of how he and POE and affliates in general ended up at. They moved on from that stuff and used the experience writing on that and other outlets to build their brand somewhere. By 2003 or so you already had other avenues to find weird poo poo online, probably with less moderation/general rules of engagement. Yeah, I kinda feel like the mic article singled out those two mostly because they went on to the most high-profile (in the gaming industry) gigs when really there was no shortage of shock writing online from several outlets during and after then. And John Cheese was part of the POE-sphere? What name was he under there?
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Jul 14, 2017 18:36
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You mentioned Pointless Waste of Time, which was run by him!
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Jul 14, 2017 18:39
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Mr. Fowl posted:Exactly. God forbid we paint racists with a broad brush. The absolute worst thing you can do in a conflict, is, as we all know, understanding your enemy and how they operate The allies single-handedly won WWII by refusing to distinguish between Italians, Germans, and Japanese people and plugging their ears and going LALALALALALALA every time someone tried to explain differences in military technology or what language the enemy combatants were shouting in.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:53
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Sarkeesian didn't do anything wrong than make some youtube videos and steal some gameplay footage along the way Zoe Quinn is garbage personified
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Jul 14, 2017 18:59
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I do love these derails. Bennett has a new Anima abandon out for the show Dragon Half, if you want to talk about something less annoying.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:I do love these derails. Bennett has a new Anima abandon out for the show Dragon Half, if you want to talk about something less annoying. I have lost all respect for him since his blatant hatred of One Piece has been revealed What happened to the Engineer?
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Jul 14, 2017 19:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7BWayWu08
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Jul 14, 2017 19:06
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Sarkeesian didn't do anything wrong than make some youtube videos and steal some gameplay footage along the way So are you the same guy as last time with a changed name, or a new guy
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Jul 14, 2017 19:14
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Souls-like is not a genre in and of its self but a sub-genre with specific trappings, stamina based combat, and I'd put roguelike and metroidvania into the same camp.
dbzfandiego fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 19:18
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dbzfandiego posted:Souls-like is not a genre in and of its self but a sub-genre with specific trappings, stamina based combat, and I'd put rogelikes and metroidvanias into the same camp. What's would you say is its parent genre?
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Jul 14, 2017 19:19
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I have lost all respect for him since his blatant hatred of One Piece has been revealed Marc? He hasn't done a nuts and bolts commentary in a while and besides, Marc does other work than just for Bennett. On top of that, Gabe does a lot of work on the videos too.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:22
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TheMaestroso posted:What's would you say is its parent genre? action rpg
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Jul 14, 2017 19:22
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TheMaestroso posted:What's would you say is its parent genre? Action-RPG
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Jul 14, 2017 19:22
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e: ^^^ That's prolly a better way of putting it. TheMaestroso posted:What's would you say is its parent genre? Somewhere between Tomb Raider and Dynasty Warriors, I'd say. ... What? I'm being serious!
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Jul 14, 2017 19:22
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My problem with Mark in that video is that he is giving too much wight to niche subgenres that by definition are used to group together vary similar games Metroidvanias, for example, are platformers that have a focus on backtracking, the acquisition of new abilities and exploration. That there is or can be little innovation dose not bother me as something done well will always trump a new interesting idea that's a bit rough in my case.
dbzfandiego fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 19:30
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dbzfandiego posted:Action-RPG That's interesting, because while the big, obvious games that take a lot from Souls could be described that way, there are plenty of games in that vein that emphasize the action and exploration elements while lacking the RPG aspect. I think this variety is decent part of why Mark Brown made his video to begin with.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:33
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TheMaestroso posted:That's interesting, because while the big, obvious games that take a lot from Souls could be described that way, there are plenty of games in that vein that emphasize the action and exploration elements while lacking the RPG aspect. I think this variety is decent part of why Mark Brown made his video to begin with. Many games take inspiration form a lot of sources. In the end genre is an out growth of the need for human beings to categorize things, but as human creations there are many that fall into the gray space in between our categorizations. "Dark Souls" has merely become a useful short hand for a fuzy grouping of what Dark Souls did well
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Jul 14, 2017 19:38
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Kunster posted:You mentioned Pointless Waste of Time, which was run by him! Huh, never connected those dots. Wow, it really is all the same dozen people who've driven internet humor sites, isn't it. Speaking of that bunch, Jay Pinkerton left Valve as well along with Chet and Erik. I remember him way back in the day when he was the editor for the university humor paper; he was funny and had the patience of a saint for putting up with third-string writers like me back then. Wish him well for wherever they all end up.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:40
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Jul 14, 2017 20:08
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Jul 14, 2017 20:56
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I have lost all respect for him since his blatant hatred of One Piece has been revealed I don't think he hates One Piece. It's just something that'd be impossible for him to properly review due to how massive it is.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:12
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stillvisions posted:Huh, never connected those dots. Wow, it really is all the same dozen people who've driven internet humor sites, isn't it. The endless coffee breaks were hard on their bladders, huh Or whatever writers do at a company that doesn't make games anymore
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Jul 14, 2017 21:20
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Mokinokaro posted:I don't think he hates One Piece. It's just something that'd be impossible for him to properly review due to how massive it is. And is still going to his day, with no hints as to when it may end.
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Jul 14, 2017 22:12
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I'll break a long silence and just say having shipped three AAA games and working on my 4th, my take on why games writing is so hard is because game development is utterly chaotic the larger you scale the project. Who gets a say in what the storyline is can shift at the drop of a hat, and the amount of work it takes to get a story beat completely done means that something that sounded great on paper and story-boarded well comes off as crap when inserted into the game as developed. I've been at three studios with dedicated story departments, and they tend to be often at war with each other and at war with "that guy" that gets to overrule them. Hiring an outside writer is a nice way to snag press, but that person will still have to accept that their stuff is going to change and they won't have a lot of say. And the thing is people up and down the pipeline may think the story is dumb or even offensive, but we know we don't have a lot of say so it just kind of chugs forward. Or maybe you just hit that point where you've spent six months on the same level and you'll build anything just to ship. Or maybe you built a completely finished level that just got re-purposed for something outside of its original intent and now there's some discordant elements left behind from the old version or maybe it really doesn't make sense why that huge combat arena you built just became a stealth level. And so, so much of games is building something only to realize it sucks - the guy way back talking about seeing stuff in the Bioshock Infinite trailers that didn't ship? I'll bet good money that even if the demos were more of "idea" demos than actual finished mechanics, you probably saw a snapshot of some of what they had already built and planned on continuing to build from. And it probably represented the direction they intended for the story *at that time.* But then someone didn't like it - a lead, a publisher, a player, and they scrapped it. SO much of game dev is trial and error. My first shipped game had a completely different protagonist from the one we showed when we first demonstrated the project at E3... except my game wasn't remotely famous or anything so nobody really noticed XD The game we shipped had a storyline banged out in the final six months of a six *year* dev cycle. My second project had a near 10 year dev cycle, an IP changeover, and a constant shift in creative leads and constant staff turnover. If you can even tell a coherent story, let alone a good one, in that kind of environment, the stars have aligned for you friend. And we were blessed on those two projects to not also have to deal with a publisher's Eye of Sauron dictating content to us on top of everything else. I'd suggest the few AAA games that still have good stories come from studios where everyone is actually on the same page, even if one person is largely driving the vision. Also good project management. And frankly, I still think luck is a big factor. Ultimately, your average AAA game ships with several hundred people at minimum and only keeps scaling up from there. There's a reason most of the really good story games are indie projects made by a very small team. If nothing else, it's easier to stay on task!
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Jul 14, 2017 22:57
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Ross's Game Dungeon has a double feature out on a title called Armed and Delirious.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:17
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Jeez, that sounds like a misery farm for writers in normal circumstances. It makes me appreciate Horizon and Witcher 3 that much more.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:22
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Reminds me of little drips of info that come out of Valve's ship where they work on projects to near-shippable states before scrapping the entire thing. Bioshock is another one but it usually involved Ken Levine pulling rank and scrapping ideas entirely.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:Ross's Game Dungeon has a double feature out on a title called Armed and Delirious. Wow, even by Game Dungeon standards that was weird and full of bullshit. Definitely worth a watch. Also, Super Bunnyhop interviewed the people behind the Devlover Digital E3 2017 Press Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djYGpEOtDLk
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Jul 15, 2017 03:04
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The Vosgian Beast posted:The absolute worst thing you can do in a conflict, is, as we all know, understanding your enemy and how they operate What is with people and insane interpretations of WW2
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Jul 15, 2017 03:30
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TheMaestroso posted:Jeez, that sounds like a misery farm for writers in normal circumstances. It makes me appreciate Horizon and Witcher 3 that much more.
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Jul 15, 2017 03:31
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achillesforever6 posted:I know I like to bring it up a lot, but its kind of crazy how good the story telling in New Vegas was despite all the cutbacks, time crunches, and budget cuts it had to deal with. Horizon and New Vegas had the same lead writers. As for the Witcher series...well, let's just say that people never really played the Witcher games for the gameplay. And CDPR knew that.
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Jul 15, 2017 03:48
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