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I missed a bunch of pages of stuff but wanted to say the Dark Knight level 70 quest is as good as the 50.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:26
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Xun posted:what is this from? They're blowing the live letter quip out of proportion, where Yoshi basically says it would be easier to explore a glamour update than to continue trying to screw with inventory restrictions, so they'll be looking into that for the future.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:27
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Xun posted:what is this from? The live letter mentioned glamour updates. Huge, new system, functions might be stretching the truth. The log is pure speculation. A glamour history was mentioned as in it might be able to tell you what glamours you've had on recently.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:28
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While welcome, the black mage changes don't seem to fix the thing where an umbral cycle consisting purely of thunder and foul is superior to an umbral cycle consisting of thunder, foul, and blizzard 4. Which is okay, because playing to minimize B4 casts actually feels pretty good, but I can't imagine it's what they intend.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:37
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Mr. Nice! posted:I missed a bunch of pages of stuff but wanted to say the Dark Knight level 70 quest is as good as the 50. Yeah. Having your inner guilt/remorse conjure up villains from your past and memories, only to have your inner darkside turn against him and go shithouse on all your enemies was pretty great. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 19:39
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Ferrinus posted:While welcome, the black mage changes don't seem to fix the thing where an umbral cycle consisting purely of thunder and foul is superior to an umbral cycle consisting of thunder, foul, and blizzard 4. Which is okay, because playing to minimize B4 casts actually feels pretty good, but I can't imagine it's what they intend. I haven't been playing my BLM much is SB but why doesn't getting a longer astral phase by getting hearts benefit?
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Jul 15, 2017 19:43
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Is Sadu the one from the tribe who believe they reincarnate? I like how the dude goes around asking people if they're his moon, apparently under the impression that someone will magically actually know if they're his moon or not. But he's really just a total dweeb, and the story reflects that.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:43
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Ferrinus posted:While welcome, the black mage changes don't seem to fix the thing where an umbral cycle consisting purely of thunder and foul is superior to an umbral cycle consisting of thunder, foul, and blizzard 4. Which is okay, because playing to minimize B4 casts actually feels pretty good, but I can't imagine it's what they intend. Does it actually parse higher? Supposedly its actually better but I've never been able to do it - the HQ rotation (6xF4, foul, t3, b4) is always higher on the SSS dummy. In fact I haven't been able to kill it with the 4x F4 rotations. Always close at least, vary from 3700 to 4100 on that dummy on every rotation I've tried (which is maybe killing with 5s left on the high end and being a couple % off on the low) I suspect my "no B4" rotation is just completely wrong.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:43
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hobbesmaster posted:Does it actually parse higher? Supposedly its actually better but I've never been able to do it - the HQ rotation (6xF4, foul, t3, b4) is always higher on the SSS dummy. In fact I haven't been able to kill it with the 4x F4 rotations. Always close at least, vary from 3700 to 4100 on that dummy on every rotation I've tried (which is maybe killing with 5s left on the high end and being a couple % off on the low) The math I saw put the B4 rotation *slightly* higher potency but at the cost of being much harder to pull off on non-dummy fights. It was something like a total difference of 20 pps between the 'optimal' and 'pretend you're in 2.0 outside of openers' rotations, while the older ones were easier to fit in movement via procs
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Jul 15, 2017 19:48
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Better proc rates, proccing off more things, or have the WHM gain the stack would be my guesses. There are a few problems with it. One is that you can see another WHM's stacks, which is clunky and weird. Another is that I'm fairly sure you only heal one person with it even if multiple people have stacks. They need to do something though.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:50
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Ghost of Starman posted:Cool. If anyone wants to toss me a code, I'd be happy to use it. Heavensward comes with SB. Unless you want to play a dragon lady, there's no point in getting it until you hit 50, and finish the 2.0 main story quests. And here's a recruitment code: HT239SJS Enter here
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Jul 15, 2017 19:51
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SKULL.GIF posted:It concerns me that they say they want to make some jobs easier because they're too reliant on player skill. I really didn't enjoy RDM because of how simple it was, not excited to see other jobs move towards that. I'm bummed they said they want to make mch heat management easier because that's the part of the class I like most. Also dropping hot shot to 5 heat and removing the heat loss for quick reload means it's harder to maintain high heat and gain it again from zero withoutut cooldowns. Very odd way to go about it.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:54
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Kobata posted:The math I saw put the B4 rotation *slightly* higher potency but at the cost of being much harder to pull off on non-dummy fights. On the SSS dummy it shouldn't be upwards of a 20% difference though?
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Jul 15, 2017 19:57
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I haven't been playing my BLM much is SB but why doesn't getting a longer astral phase by getting hearts benefit? Umbral Hearts give you two more F4s, which are good. However, they come at the cost of casting B4, which is bad. Basically, when you compare this, and here I am using italics for crappy spells (spells cast in UI, spells cast to transition) and bold for good ones (fire spells cast in AF): F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, B3, T3, Foul, F3 Math: 2196 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 168 = 3572 potency, 23.7 seconds ---> 150.7 potency per second to this: F4, F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, F4, B3, T3, B4, Foul, F3 Math: 3132 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 260 + 168 = 4718 potency, 32.3 seconds ---> 146.07 potency per second You find that you go from a 6:3 powerful/mediocre ratio to an 8:4 powerful/mediocre ratio, which is not really an improvement on paper. The numbers also bear this out, with the top series of spells eking out a mildly superior potency/second to the bottom even when you take the 2.8 second F4/B4 cast time into account; it's like 152 for the short one versus 148 for the long one. Sources: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/246796-Black-Mage-Sanctuary-A-Guide-to-DPS/page267 and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/335645-Some-interesting-numbers-on-4.0-BLM , although I guess we can work it out for ourselves here if we don't trust 'em. Now, Foul is what makes this work. The core idea here is that you have to spend two GCDs in Umbral Ice no matter what, and one of them is almost certainly going to be Thunder, so what should the other be? Well, if you're level 69 or below, it's got to be Blizzard 4; that's your best filler spell hands-down. But Foul isn't even a filler spell - it's your best spell straight up. So if you reduce your UI cycle from two good filler spells to one filler spell and one insane unbeatable haymaker you've made a dramatic gain. One thing that occurs to me is that if, somehow, you enter UI to find that your target already has a lot of Thunder time on them (maybe you threw a thundercloud proc right before or after your F1 or something, IDK, although I don't see why you wouldn't save that proc for UI) then it might literally be worth it to have a UI cycle consisting of Blizzard 4 and Foul. This doesn't make B4 useless, because the 3.X-esque rotation is actually shorter than 30 seconds, which means you need to occasionally use Blizzard 4 just to stockpile Foul charge time and ensure you've always got a Foul lined up for when your orbs turn blue. Specifically, I think it's best to use B4 in your opener to do the 8xF4 thing everyone does, and then to use B4 about every 90 seconds, when Triplecast and Leylines are about to come off cooldown. If they wanted to make it so that B4 is always worth using, they need to buff umbral hearts themselves. My idea is that they should give you ALL the upsides of being in UI 3, including halving the cast time of fire spells as well as halving their AF costs. Umbral Hearts should ALSO double the potency of Fire 2 or something in order to make it worth using ever, though. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 20:00
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BTW Chaos datacenter goons my static is missing a dps and healer right now for savage raids and whatnot. We go on mondays/thursdays at 18 UTC / 19 BST / 20 ETC / 21 EEST. HMU here or https://discord.gg/kh2caVJ if you're interested!
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Jul 15, 2017 20:03
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Anyway the big QoL change that BLMs definitely need is an increase of a couple hundred points of max MP so that you don't have to pause for a breath between casting Blizzard 4 and Fire 3 in your opener to ensure that you get a mana tick and therefore can afford eight F4s.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:05
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Ferrinus posted:Umbral Hearts give you two more F4s, which are good. However, they come at the cost of casting B4, which is bad. Basically, when you compare this, and here I am using italics for crappy spells (spells cast in UI, spells cast to transition) and bold for good ones (fire spells cast in AF): Ok heres my confusion: that is only 20s of skills. You're 10s short of a foul on the 2nd time through.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:12
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hobbesmaster posted:Ok heres my confusion: that is only 20s of skills. You're 10s short of a foul on the 2nd time through. You're right, but you also didn't read my whole post. The short version is that by casting B4 in your opener and roughly every 90 seconds (lining up with leylines and triplecast) and also making liberal use of thundercloud and firestarter procs you can buy yourself enough time to always have a Foul ready. I'm doing some calculator app + notepad math right now and it's just possible that the 3.X + Foul rotation DOESN'T beat out 4.05 + Foul right now though?? I'll get back to you in a bit. EDIT: I found my mistake - I'd literally forgotten to add Foul's potency to the short rotation. No, the short rotation still wins. EDIT 2: I've included the numbers in my above post but I'll put them here as well: F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, B3, T3, Foul, F3 Math: 2196 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 168 = 3572 potency, 23.7 seconds ---> 150.7 potency per second to this: F4, F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, F4, B3, T3, B4, Foul, F3 Math: 3132 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 260 + 168 = 4718 potency, 32.3 seconds ---> 146.07 potency per second Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 20:16
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Ferrinus posted:Umbral Hearts give you two more F4s, which are good. However, they come at the cost of casting B4, which is bad. Basically, when you compare this, and here I am using italics for crappy spells (spells cast in UI, spells cast to transition) and bold for good ones (fire spells cast in AF): So with triplecast now every 60s doesn't that increase your propensity to use B4?
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Jul 15, 2017 20:26
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Sharkopath posted:I'm bummed they said they want to make mch heat management easier because that's the part of the class I like most. 
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Jul 15, 2017 20:27
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Kalenn Istarion posted:So with triplecast now every 60s doesn't that increase your propensity to use B4? With a 2.8s cast time on your punchiest magic, each time you use triplecast you're basically buying yourself 0.9 seconds total. However, if you subtract 0.9 from each of those times and divide, you still see the short rotation put out more PPS than the long rotation. It's not really that triplecast makes the long rotation break ahead, it's just that it's a useful benchmark to use as a timer - every so often you need the longer, slightly weaker B4 rotation just to give Foul time to charge back up. I think the effect of 60s triplecast is largely that you use leylines as your new B4 stopwatch. Since each firestarter and thundercloud proc you get buys you more time on the Foul clock, it's not a sure thing that you'll HAVE To B4 every 90s; I've had Susano fights where I literally had to cast B4 right as triplecast refreshed because Foul was still a second away from being ready, and I've had Susano fights where I probably could've gone an extra cycle without B4ing because I'd gotten so many procs and/or I'd had to run around and delay my rotation so frequently.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:31
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Ferrinus posted:With a 2.8s cast time on your punchiest magic, each time you use triplecast you're basically buying yourself 0.9 seconds total. However, if you subtract 0.9 from each of those times and divide, you still see the short rotation put out more PPS than the long rotation. It's not really that triplecast makes the long rotation break ahead, it's just that it's a useful benchmark to use as a timer - every so often you need the longer, slightly weaker B4 rotation just to give Foul time to charge back up. I think the effect of 60s triplecast is largely that you use leylines as your new B4 stopwatch. I'd like if they made foul an ogcd so it wasn't an either or for it and b4; even if they had to take the potency down a bit for that not to be a huge buff
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Jul 15, 2017 20:51
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ImpAtom posted:Cure 1 is useful sometimes, especially if you're low on MP/just died/whatever and while Plenary Indulgence isn't great there's no reason NOT to be using it when you have it. It's free healing. I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough? I assumed I was supposed to be doing cure 1 unless it was an emergency or free cure proc'd, but hey, if I can ignore another button on my castbar... Do ASTs still need to use benefic 1? Seems like their MP issues are a bit more severe
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Jul 15, 2017 20:55
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I'd like if they made foul an ogcd so it wasn't an either or for it and b4; even if they had to take the potency down a bit for that not to be a huge buff Yeah, ogcd Foul would also take care of this, although I kind of like the puzzle of deciding exactly where to cast the spell (the obvious answer now is "instead of blizzard 4" but back when I thought you always had to cast blizzard 4 it was a more interesting problem) so I'd prefer they massively buffed umbral hearts instead.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:55
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Ainsley McTree posted:I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough? I don't do difficult content ever but I'll bene 1 if I think it's enough healing over bene 2 - particularly if I'm just hitting someone who ate a mechanic so they won't die right away if they do it again.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:58
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Ainsley McTree posted:I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough? Cure 1's advantage is mp efficiency, which is basically a non-issue for WHM at this point. You may as well use it when time is not a factor, though, like during phase transitions.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:09
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Ainsley McTree posted:I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough? I'd never claim to be a pro WHM, far from it, but my Cure 1 usage was marginal in Heavensward and it's reduced further in Stormblood. Not to say Cure 1 doesn't have a use because it does but I'd never use it as my primary or go to heal. This might all be changing in 4.05 because Yoshi mentioned Lillies and Cure 2 specifically, but the thing is your OGCD's compose like 90% of your emergency healing needs if you have to get someone up quick, including Benediction which is way more useful now with its cool down halved in SB. Cure 1 hits for like 6000-7000 range (Roughly 10k on a crit) given the variance but it only has a 50% chance of giving you a Lily for Divine Benison (They're not especially good for anything else, if you have 3 stack just dump them into an Assize imo) as opposed to Cure 2 guaranteeing you one so you can throw that out when you need it instead of hoping for a heal. In HW, you might have been inclined to make an argument that Cure 1 was ideal for MP efficiency, but White Mage no longer has glaring or even notable MP issues because Assize being on a 60s cooldown, Lucid Dreaming and Thin Air mean you have a lot of MP to play with. The Benefic 1/Benefic 2 comparison doesn't really hold any sort of weight under scrutiny because Benefic1/2 doesn't have similar mechanics tied to it like Cure does. VHGS posted:Cure 1's advantage is mp efficiency, which is basically a non-issue for WHM at this point. You may as well use it when time is not a factor, though, like during phase transitions. Most phase transitions are marked with a large party hit so realistically speaking, your party should be chilling in a pack so you can slam a Cure III on them all to top them out most efficiently. Although in reality they break up the second their damage is shaved off their HP but eh, that's when they end up dying like idiots.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:14
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Ainsley McTree posted:I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough? Cure 1 x2 is more potent than Cure 2 and has a chance of proccing various things but also means you're spending two cooldowns, not one, on an action and you're not assured a Lily proc for Divine B. There are times to use Cure 1 but you need to balance out that extra cast with the fact you could use that cooldown for extra DPS. A big problem with Cure 1 is that it's all about MP efficiency which WHM no longer has an issue with unless they just died or something.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:14
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So if you think about it, on single targets, Blizzard 4 is a spell with an 8.6s cast time that deals 1196 potency worth of damage. That's 142.4 potency per second (F4 on its own is 167.1 pps, if you're wondering). Thunder 3 has a 2.5s cast time, deals 70 upfront, and deals 320 more over 24 seconds. On a fresh target it's 156 potency per second. That means that if Thundercloud procs didn't exist, it would technically be worthwhile to have an umbral cycle consisting only of Blizzard 4 and Foul as long as your target has like... a single tick of Thunder left on them. Since in that case a straight cast of Thunder is only going to be worth ~140 pps. I have to think about how to take thundercloud procs into account here.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:14
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I had a nice honest healer of the most honest variety the other day who assumed Cure III was the heal to spam because it's Cure III, it's obviously the best!
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Jul 15, 2017 21:18
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Thanks for the cure tips goons; it all makes a lot of sense, seeing it laid out like that. So for Assize; should I be casting that literally on cooldown (assuming I'm down to at least 90% MP, I mean) or should I be saving it for when I actually need to heal people? I feel like the way I see people talk about assize, the healing effects of it are almost tertiary to its main benefits.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:19
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Ainsley McTree posted:Thanks for the cure tips goons; it all makes a lot of sense, seeing it laid out like that. It depends. In dungeons cast it basically any time you're killing a big pack. In (some) boss fights and raids it's pretty worthwhile to save it for right after a big AoE attack because it's a high-power instant heal. Those come often enough you're probably not wasting it. The healing effects are absolutely not secondary but it's basically a case of "it can do a little of everything." It does big damage, big heals and recovers your MP. If there is any situation you need one of those three things then use it because it's on a short-rear end cooldown even without lilies.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:20
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Ferrinus posted:So if you think about it, on single targets, Blizzard 4 is a spell with an 8.6s cast time that deals 1196 potency worth of damage. That's 142.4 potency per second (F4 on its own is 167.1 pps, if you're wondering). How do you figure b4 is 8.6s
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Jul 15, 2017 21:21
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Ainsley McTree posted:Thanks for the cure tips goons; it all makes a lot of sense, seeing it laid out like that. If you're in an AOE pull, just fire it off. If you expect some AOE coming soon, save it. It's as strong a medica, off gcd, so it's a decent aoe heal as well.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:21
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Ainsley McTree posted:Thanks for the cure tips goons; it all makes a lot of sense, seeing it laid out like that. I'd say it's generally good enough to use on cooldown, but it's also more situational than just firing on cooldown like a Howling Fist style cooldown attack. When you've learned your fights, it might be worth holding onto for a couple of seconds if you can use for a party wide heal as well as DPS and MP restoration for the triple whammy. Say, if you know Susano Ex Ukehi's are coming out any second, I'd hold on to it. If Ukehi's at least 10 seconds away, I'd pop it and use other heals to get through that. Assize is still the single best action in the game, imo. It puts a piece of poo poo like Plenary Indulgence to shame. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 21:22
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My favorite part about the Live Letter is that they consider Estinien part of the Scions, but he's just shy 
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Jul 15, 2017 21:22
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Every time he showed up in the SB story was extremely 
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Jul 15, 2017 21:26
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Wacky Delly posted:Heavensward comes with SB. Unless you want to play a dragon lady, there's no point in getting it until you hit 50, and finish the 2.0 main story quests. Yeah, just remember you do want it before you start doing the post-2.0 but pre-Heavensward quests, though, because then you'll raise the level cap and get XP that will save you some time in Heavensward.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:27
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Kalenn Istarion posted:How do you figure b4 is 8.6s Well you only cast Blizzard 4 to allow yourself to cast an extra two Fires 4. B4 + F4 + F4 is a total of (2.8*3 = 8.4) seconds of spellcasting and 1196 potency of magic damage. 8.6 was a typo, sorry! The pps was correct.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:30
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All those buffs and stuff were cool to hear about but what I'd really like is an option to let the normal ambient music keep playing during combat. It's not bad music per se I'd just rather listen to the zone soundtrack.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:40
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