Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
all kidding aside: that's basically true of all software development i've done if you replace "player" with "user", but i can't imagine it's that cut and dry when it comes to video game balance in particular. people get really emotionally attached to balance arguments in a way that they don't for, like, where the hamburger icon should be in a mobile e-mail client

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Minrad posted:

iirc is something like a 200-300 potency boost over using it on suiton.

Try 30. 200 potency is more than the difference between suiton and doton to begin with, and you have to use katon instead of raiton.

Or, well, it would be, but doton is bugged, and benefiting from dripping blades right now, so there's an extra 64 tacked on.

e: or, well, it's all doubled because TCJ, but still.

VHGS fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jul 17, 2017

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.

VHGS posted:

Try 30. 200 potency is more than the difference between suiton and doton to begin with, and you have to use katon instead of raiton.

Or, well, it would be, but doton is bugged, and benefiting from dripping blades right now, so there's an extra 64 tacked on.

it's closer to 200 in most situations thanks to contagion.

quote:

Update: Doton is affected by dripping blades trait (1.2 multiplier) and is also affected by contagion. - credit to Seo Hitani and Shasta Kota from Gilgamesh

Uses: The most efficient use of it is to use it as Fuma, Katon, Doton if the boss does not move for the entirety of Doton’s tick, followed CLOSELY by using it to set up a TA by executing Fuma, Raiton and Suiton. This means skipping out on a hard cast suiton and using a raiton/fuma instead (more potency, less clipping of GCDs). It is better than using TCJ in a TA. Here is the math:

Potency gain from raiton/fuma vs suiton + 2 GCDs + 2 AAs (assuming Spinning edge and gust slash) = 214.68 (fuma) or 257.88(raiton)

Potency gain from using TCJ in TA = 171.36





You can also execute a Fuma, Katon, Doton which is a potency gain. Here is the math:

With slashing:

Fuma + Raiton + Suiton = 1713.6
Fuma + Katon + Doton = 1901.6

Difference = 188

This means that TCJ Doton > TCJ Suiton by more than 1.9 ticks of Doton.

With slashing and TA for first 2 mudras:

Fuma + Raiton + Suiton = 1848.96
Fuma + Katon + Doton = 2014.96

With slashing and TA for all 3 mudras, assuming doton’s 1st tick is buffed by TA:

Fuma + Raiton + Suiton = 1884.96
Fuma + Katon + Doton = 2024.56

Jinh
Sep 12, 2008

Fun Shoe
I wish Verflare were as cool looking as Verholy because it's easy to drop a finisher but hard to drop the same one every time like I (try to) do.

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

Minrad posted:

i feel like instead of blind, dark arts dark passenger should have some mitigation boost on it. like a large amount of parry or just some 10-15% flat mitigation. they just have less cooldowns than other tanks, and the cooldowns they do have are usually worse. these would mitigation the lack of cooldowns with the uselessness of DP. if you just way buff the potency of quietus with DA, then you've got a full suite of DA for mitigation and DA for damage to use it on again.

It could help, but then you're running into locking major mitigation behind MP. TBN works well, but having to DA DP right now is like half your MP, and to use that for basic cooldown usage that other classes get for free / spend gauge on, then it still would rarely get used.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Jinh posted:

I wish Verflare were as cool looking as Verholy because it's easy to drop a finisher but hard to drop the same one every time like I (try to) do.

Verflare looks cool-ish (though it could be cooler), the real crime is the sound. You don't really hear particular sounds in raids anyway but when soloing it's super lame.

Chaitai
Apr 15, 2006
Nope. I got nothin' witty to go here.

College Slice
What is the best situation to use each AST card? I'm fairly new to AST, but I finally have all of the reroll / store card / burn card to buff the next one skills.

I feel like most of the cards are useless except for Balance (20% damage increase) and The Bole (damage reduction). The others I feel like a burn card fodder until you get one of those two.

Am I playing AST all wrong and no one has told me?

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Minrad posted:

it's closer to 200 in most situations thanks to contagion.

188 with the dripping blades bug. Contagion actually brings them closer because Doton doesn't snapshot debuffs, but you can't stack enough debuffs that rai+sui pulls ahead.

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.
my take on tank and healer balance atm:

pld: why do they have so many cooldowns now? I feel like Passage of Arms could lose the bonus block rate or get a much longer cooldown or else people are just gonna be using it like a poor man's sheltron a lot on fights with frequent tankbusters, which doesn't seem like the intended design at all. also intervention on top of the cover buff as well as divine veil existing means that PLD provides way more mitigation -while offtanking- than anything WAR/DRK can provide. That on top of having the most dps is silly, but I feel like drk/war should just be buffed up to pld's damage levels rather than pld eating a nerf here, cuz these cooldowns are gonna need to get touched at some point and it's gonna result in PLD getting double nerfed and being useless again.

whm: I still really think they should just provide some really minor group damage buff, the way scholar does now with chain strategem. They at least have absurd healing and infinite mana now, which may end up giving them an edge in savage content if they have equally absurd healing requirements. healer balance is probably the best it's ever been at any rate, but we'll see how it goes after SCH gets a huge set of buffs come tuesday.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I can say with absolute certainty that these will be among the changes made in the 4.05 patch:

Full Thrust potency will be increased
Jump's animation lock will be reduced

Because they do those two changes literally every time they touch dragoon

Jinh
Sep 12, 2008

Fun Shoe

Countblanc posted:

Veryflare looks cool-ish (though it could be cooler), the real crime is the sound. You don't really hear particular sounds in raids anyway but when soloing it's super lame.

Maybe that's it. All I know is that Verflare just sorta gets lost in the mix every time for me but with Verholy you see that bright DNA strand looking thing descend and think BIG NUMBER INCOMING

Fortuitous Bumble
Jan 5, 2007

Here's a population survey. Not being able to read Japanese, it is my e-opinion that:
前回 = Previous Population (6/6)
今回 = Current Population (7/15)
増減 = Increase/Decrease
Maybe someone else knows which ones are for players transferring in/out/newly created?

Excalibur got even bigger (hopefully it doesn't get totally locked), Omega is now as big as Excalibur, and an entire Mateus of players fled Balmung

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.

Chaitai posted:

What is the best situation to use each AST card? I'm fairly new to AST, but I finally have all of the reroll / store card / burn card to buff the next one skills.

I feel like most of the cards are useless except for Balance (20% damage increase) and The Bole (damage reduction). The others I feel like a burn card fodder until you get one of those two.

Am I playing AST all wrong and no one has told me?

Put Balance on Spread whenever you can, ewer/spire go into royal road. If you have 50% aoe ready and can't find Balance, using it on Arrow is usually acceptable if it's that or waiting another 30 seconds to try again. If you don't have a Balance on spread and your first draw is ewer or spire, it's probably better to use a re-draw now for an increased shot at Balance rather than royal roading immediately.

potaties
Apr 8, 2005

meow meow

cheetah7071 posted:

I can say with absolute certainty that these will be among the changes made in the 4.05 patch:

Full Thrust potency will be increased
Jump's animation lock will be reduced

Because they do those two changes literally every time they touch dragoon

The animation lock on jump feels extra terrible now if you try to weave it between the new F&C/WT combo so I'd be happy if they removed it at this point.

Luceid
Jan 20, 2005

Buy some freaking medicine.

Minrad posted:

whm: I still really think they should just provide some really minor group damage buff, the way scholar does now with chain strategem. They at least have absurd healing and infinite mana now, which may end up giving them an edge in savage content if they have equally absurd healing requirements. healer balance is probably the best it's ever been at any rate, but we'll see how it goes after SCH gets a huge set of buffs come tuesday.

whm absolutely needs some kind of utility beyond pushing huge numbers, but i doubt they'll receive it. i'm just gonna level astro so i can be ready for it to resume its place from HW if things get that dire again

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.

Luceid posted:

whm absolutely needs some kind of utility beyond pushing huge numbers, but i doubt they'll receive it. i'm just gonna level astro so i can be ready for it to resume its place from HW if things get that dire again

Yeah "infinite mana" sounds pretty great on paper and it is good, but it's not like the other healers are running out of mana and with mana shift it's really, really hard to actually run completely out of mana even if you're trying or solo healing or dying constantly.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Is WHM now the only healer without a shield they can cast on the party? I never really thought about it, but I'm starting to level WHM now and I'm kinda confused as to why that is.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Minrad posted:

healer balance is probably the best it's ever been at any rate, but we'll see how it goes after SCH gets a huge set of buffs come tuesday.

Is this confirmed or just a cynical expectation? I would like to know more :staredog:

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Ouhei posted:

Is WHM now the only healer without a shield they can cast on the party? I never really thought about it, but I'm starting to level WHM now and I'm kinda confused as to why that is.

Divine Benison is a 15% HP shield, isn't it?

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

Galaga Galaxian posted:

Divine Benison is a 15% HP shield, isn't it?

It is but to be fair it comes late to the party.

The reason whm didnt really have one is initially scholar and white mage were the only healers and they basically tried to fill the "shield healer" and "mega heals/heals over time" roles that are standard practice in MMOs. Astrologian came later and was like "why not both?"

Jinh
Sep 12, 2008

Fun Shoe

Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Is this confirmed or just a cynical expectation? I would like to know more :staredog:

From the recent live letter: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/337124-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-XXXVII-Q-A-Update-Thread

What you want is the last post on that page for healer changes. I don't know how it will actually shake out as far as balance goes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

RagnarokAngel posted:

It is but to be fair it comes late to the party.

The reason whm didnt really have one is initially scholar and white mage were the only healers and they basically tried to fill the "shield healer" and "mega heals/heals over time" roles that are standard practice in MMOs. Astrologian came later and was like "why not both?"

The idea behind Astrologian was clearly supposed to be "I can fill in as a WHM with a SCH or a SCH with a WHM but weaker at both and compensating with card gimmicks" but they overtuned it pretty hard.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Jinh posted:

From the recent live letter: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/337124-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-XXXVII-Q-A-Update-Thread

What you want is the last post on that page for healer changes. I don't know how it will actually shake out as far as balance goes.

Awesome, thanks! Ultimately doesn't matter much, I'm not a Savage content person so odds are I'll be able to play Scholar and Paladin until the game shuts down. But buffs are nice

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





ImpAtom posted:

The idea behind Astrologian was clearly supposed to be "I can fill in as a WHM with a SCH or a SCH with a WHM but weaker at both and compensating with card gimmicks" but they overtuned it pretty hard.

I'll take overtuned first pass over undertuned first pass. The alternative is what Blizzard did to disc priest at the start of Legion: you can juggle two roles, so to make it "fair" you're not allowed to ever be effective at either one... not the most fun thing in the world.

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010



Fun Shoe
congratulations, you described release sstro

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Astrologian was actually straight up garbage at release. It was mind boggingly bad.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





RagnarokAngel posted:

Astrologian was actually straight up garbage at release. It was mind boggingly bad.

Oh, right. I stopped playing after beating the level 50 ARR story and just now came back, so I honestly keep forgetting that HW happened and these other classes aren't actually brand new to everyone else.

Luceid
Jan 20, 2005

Buy some freaking medicine.

Ouhei posted:

Is WHM now the only healer without a shield they can cast on the party? I never really thought about it, but I'm starting to level WHM now and I'm kinda confused as to why that is.

especially since all WHMs ever do in cutscenes, aside from heal scrapes and scratches, is erect huge blast shields. please pay attention to my CLASS FANTASY yoshida

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
Protect should absolutely be a projected dome barrier or something.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Is the new tomestone currency going to be available in the next patch?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

SirPhoebos posted:

Is the new tomestone currency going to be available in the next patch?

yes

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


I'm mildly surprised they haven't even released what the new tome gear will look like. I need to know if I'm going to look like a fashion disaster in two weeks when I buy the chest.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Countblanc posted:

Protect should absolutely be a projected dome barrier or something.

Protect should be loving anything but what it is. What a dumb spell.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Tech N9ne is the official soundtrack of the Aquapolis.

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.

Thundarr posted:

I'm mildly surprised they haven't even released what the new tome gear will look like. I need to know if I'm going to look like a fashion disaster in two weeks when I buy the chest.

i'm betting hard it'll be upgrades to the antiquated 290 job gear

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

ImpAtom posted:

Protect should be loving anything but what it is. What a dumb spell.

Protect: A 1-GCD tax I eat every time someone is Rezzed.

Emily Spinach
Oct 21, 2010

:)
It’s 🌿Garland🌿!😯😯😯 No…🙅 I am become😤 😈CHAOS👿! MMMMH😋 GHAAA😫
Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam already, but are the post 2.0 ARR quests ever actually interesting, story wise? I'm like halfway through the 2.1 quests and definitely at a point in my life where spending $25$18 is worth it for avoiding this poo poo.

Edit: posted before I checked the price. With that $7 I could buy an unnecessary emote too.

Emily Spinach fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 17, 2017

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Reminder, if you want an invite to the Aquapolis/Lost Canals linkshell, message Mordiceius Ketsumei in game.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

meiram posted:

Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam already, but are the post 2.0 ARR quests ever actually interesting, story wise? I'm like halfway through the 2.1 quests and definitely at a point in my life where spending $25 is worth it for avoiding this poo poo.

2.1 is absolutely the worst, but the consensus is they don't actually get good until 2.5 or so. The trials are fun but you can always just do those later if you skip.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Minrad posted:

i'm betting hard it'll be upgrades to the antiquated 290 job gear

I don't have the inventory for this again.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply