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mcmagic posted:I just don't believe casual players would want some stupid token over an actual card they can play with. As a new player who actually enjoys playing the game I would be interested in a more casual FNM that I could get some good games in without having to constantly face tier 1 and 2 decks or having everyone drop after the first or second game when they realize they are not going to win the promo or prize packs. The store I do go to is not affiliated with WOTC and pulls 12-18 people every Friday for drafts and it's super casual and friendly with very little offered in the way of prize packs (the drafts are only 10). They don't do standard events though so if the store that runs standard events become more beginner friendly by moving the people looking for promos and prizes to the Showdowns, I might start attending more events there.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:58
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AN IDIOT posted:As for publishing on a Sunday, there was nothing nefarious there, no trying to hide the news—it was simply a function of when the article was ready versus when the sanctioning window for events opened in Japan and the Asia-Pacific region. They opened yesterday, so we needed to get the new information out by then, and the article wasn't ready in time to do it earlier. Anyone saying we placed it on a weekend to hide it seriously underestimates our community's ability to read the internet on days that begin with S. I love the snark.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:59
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Maybe give me promos for showing up to multiple events, or streaking. If I've been to every standard fnm in a month give me a foil felidar guardian or something. You guys are already tracking all this info to do....
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Jul 17, 2017 21:04
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PJOmega posted:So they've taken a cue from Dear Leader and moved on to bald faced lying. Even if they're not lying it's incredibly dumb. Sickening posted:I mean, I don't think anyone believes the driving force behind FNM is promos. The driving force of fnm is that its casual, its cheap, and its consistent. You go because you want to loving play. The promos were just something that added a little more to the urge to feeling to go. Sometimes when the promos were really good it added a lot of value. I'd love to hear about what happened to Standard attendance when Path and Serum Visions were the promos. I know it's just anecdotal, but people definitely came out for those at the LGSs I go to.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:05
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I am willing to put up major money that promos do indeed drive variation in player attendance.
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uPen posted:Maybe give me promos for showing up to multiple events, or streaking. If I've been to every standard fnm in a month give me a foil felidar guardian or something. You guys are already tracking all this info to do.... This is basically the old MPR program. They stopped it because it wasn't worth mailing cards out iirc
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Jul 17, 2017 21:06
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They already mail promos to the store, I already go to the store to play magic. Just ship them a box of promos and when I check in the computer says give this man his 1 month or 6 month reward or whatever.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:09
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Tainen posted:As a new player who actually enjoys playing the game I would be interested in a more casual FNM that I could get some good games in without having to constantly face tier 1 and 2 decks or having everyone drop after the first or second game when they realize they are not going to win the promo or prize packs. The store I do go to is not affiliated with WOTC and pulls 12-18 people every Friday for drafts and it's super casual and friendly with very little offered in the way of prize packs (the drafts are only 10). They don't do standard events though so if the store that runs standard events become more beginner friendly by moving the people looking for promos and prizes to the Showdowns, I might start attending more events there. In any tournament there will be people playing to win. Getting upset because people are bringing their A game is going to serve you poorly in all aspects of life.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:09
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uPen posted:They already mail promos to the store, I already go to the store to play magic. Just ship them a box of promos and when I check in the computer says give this man his 1 month or 6 month reward or whatever. They can't trust stores with this.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:10
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uPen posted:They already mail promos to the store, I already go to the store to play magic. Just ship them a box of promos and when I check in the computer says give this man his 1 month or 6 month reward or whatever. Reminder that stores couldn't handle the Amonkhet D4s properly.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:11
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Sickening posted:I love the snark. This type of stuff in a PR statement is just embarrassing, the corporate culture must be such poo poo at WOTC. This all comes at a time when Blizzard is making a bunch of changes to Hearthstone that are being universally praised and are great for new and enfranchised players alike. I can only imagine where the game would be if they were half as competent, I wish I could switch who was in charge of which game.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:14
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mcmagic posted:I just don't believe casual players would want some stupid token over an actual card they can play with. casual players love tokens dude. also "actual card they can play with" disqualifies a lot of the promos like crumbling vestige and servo exhibition
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Jul 17, 2017 21:15
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PJOmega posted:In any tournament there will be people playing to win. Getting upset because people are bringing their A game is going to serve you poorly in all aspects of life. I'm not upset that people are brining their "A Game" I'm saying that it isn't a good experience for new and casual people.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:19
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"The implication is that the player community as a whole will attend more FNMs if the promos are better. Except it's not true." And then WotC provided stats that back up such an outrageously stupid claim....oh wait no, they didn't, because of course better promos bring more people to FNM, what the actual gently caress is this poo poo? Oh also, this? "Ultimately, we don't want players showing up just because they want the promo—we hope they're there because they enjoy playing Magic, hanging out with their friends, and having a good time. And if they get something cool out of it, well—bonus." gently caress this. I go to FNM to play in a tournament and win a promo. Sure, the tournament is laid back and that's nice (at least at the store I frequent). But it's still a tournament, you are still there to win. When I do want to just hang out with friends and play some Magic, you know what I do?....I hang out with friends and play some Magic. Also, I don't do it on Friday nights, because apparently WotC were idiots way back when they decided that this is the perfect time to hold a tournament. Jesus gently caress, with every other thing this past year, I just keep wondering - how the gently caress did a game as good as MTG get produced by these people?
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Jul 17, 2017 21:19
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Also when Serum Visions and Path were promos I remember a lot of casual players getting the promo and then immediately trading it to beef up their Standard deck or get more packs. Maybe the main appeal of a TCG is...playing games with cards and trading for them??? ...and not tiered events that explicitly divide the community???
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Jul 17, 2017 21:21
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mcmagic posted:it makes LITERALLY NO SENSE. They are going to be printing a foil card to give away at FNM's. It's just a card that is universally less desirable than the previous ones. If they had a double-sided token for a month instead of, say, Fortune's Favor or Reverse Engineer, I think that'd be significantly more desirable to get a fancy token than a useless card. Replacing three month's worth of promos for the same token just floods the market and the token loses any possible prestige.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:23
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uPen posted:Maybe give me promos for showing up to multiple events, or streaking. If I've been to every standard fnm in a month give me a foil felidar guardian or something. You guys are already tracking all this info to do.... Please keep your clothes on at FNM. PJOmega posted:In any tournament there will be people playing to win. Getting upset because people are bringing their A game is going to serve you poorly in all aspects of life. This is known as The Commander Conundrum.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:25
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Let's say they make the most awesome tokens of all time at FNM. They're distributing them for 3 months though. That doesn't exactly scream "limited edition". I'll just buy what I need off TCGPlayer if I don't want to go to FNM anyway.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:25
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We need to kill support for Duels so it doesn't compete with MtGO. We need to kill support for MtGO so it doesn't compete with paper magic. We need to kill support for eternal formats so they don't compete with Standard. We need to kill support for FNM so it doesn't compete with Standard Showdown. We need to kill support for MtG so it doesn't compete with Hearthstone.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:43
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Here's a hint for community managers: everyone thinks they're at the top-tier once they get invested.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:45
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uPen posted:Maybe give me promos for showing up to multiple events, or streaking. If I've been to every standard fnm in a month give me a foil felidar guardian or something. You guys are already tracking all this info to do.... Magic players should never be rewarded for streaking
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Jul 17, 2017 21:52
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I guess the thing I don't quite understand still, is even if there isn't an appreciable difference in turn-out when the promo is good, why bother switching? Aren't they basically saying here that the data supports them giving players crappier rewards so they're going to go ahead and do it? That's seems rampantly anti-player and definitely not something I would put into a publicly available press release lmao
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Jul 17, 2017 21:54
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And as the announcements of the last two years have made apparent neither should WotC
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Jul 17, 2017 21:54
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ThePeavstenator posted:Let's say they make the most awesome tokens of all time at FNM. They're distributing them for 3 months though. That doesn't exactly scream "limited edition". I'll just buy what I need off TCGPlayer if I don't want to go to FNM anyway. thats sort of deliberate, they want the promos to have no intrinsic value so that tryhards dont show up but casual players do, for some reason, despite the incentivr being nonexistent
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Jul 17, 2017 21:56
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our market research shows that while standard fnm numbers are still down, we are seeing a strong rise in conversion rates among casual players who are magpies or other birds attracted to wortbless shiny objects
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Jul 17, 2017 21:58
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Did WotC or Hasbro go through a big shakeup in their board or something recently?
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Jul 17, 2017 22:00
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ThePeavstenator posted:If you think the secret to MTG is "more money = better than", you don't understand this game very well. Yeah because that's what I was implying. So nice of you to say that. You don't come off like a condescending prick at all, some really valuable insight there guy Actually, I was just expressing an opinion about how nerfing netdecking CAN be bad for certain people and DEFinitely for vendors (which the latter I can sympathize), but overall I'm happy it's happening for my own reasons. a bunch of whiny goons posted:*three pages of whining about tokens and promos* Is it really that big of a deal? It doesn't effect play at all. I mean I have a lot of promos myself, and they're cool I guess, but do half of you edh/eternal guys even go to FNM anyway? Who cares
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Jul 17, 2017 22:01
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little munchkin posted:our market research shows that while standard fnm numbers are still down, we are seeing a strong rise in conversion rates among casual players who are magpies or other birds attracted to wortbless shiny objects Wortbless sounds like a legendary Treefolk Cleric. Listerine Hangover posted:Actually, I was just expressing an opinion about how nerfing netdecking CAN be bad for certain people and DEFinitely for vendors (which the latter I can sympathize), but overall I'm happy it's happening for my own reasons. lol what? The decklist change massively benefits vendors, because it's the vendors that now control a substantially higher portion of decklist information.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:01
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Star Man posted:Did WotC or Hasbro go through a big shakeup in their board or something recently? Magic stopped growing foreverially for two quarters so clearly drastic shake ups were needed Also there's like a retarded marketing head or something who wants to make it more like comic books idk
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Jul 17, 2017 22:03
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tbh Hasbro should probably just absorb WotC entirely Keep R&D as a team within the company that doesn't do anything but make the cards, but leave everything else to the grownups
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Jul 17, 2017 22:05
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TheKingofSprings posted:Magic stopped growing foreverially for two quarters so clearly drastic shake ups were needed I can almost see it, honestly. "We've had a ton of growth, but it's been slowing down. I know, let's imitate an industry that has nose-dived and is slowly going extinct! BRILLIANT!"
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Jul 17, 2017 22:05
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Jenx posted:I can almost see it, honestly. "We've had a ton of growth, but it's been slowing down. I know, let's imitate an industry that has nose-dived and is slowly going extinct! BRILLIANT!" I meant more like the MCU
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Jul 17, 2017 22:07
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Star Man posted:Did WotC or Hasbro go through a big shakeup in their board or something recently? People on the board do not know or care about any of the announcements that these middle managers are making. All they give a poo poo about is sales and operational costs.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:08
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Jenx posted:"The implication is that the player community as a whole will attend more FNMs if the promos are better. Except it's not true." I agree that Friday nights aren't ideal for nerd things because they conflict with not nerd things, but your options are kind of limited when running a single tournament of any type takes 3+ hours.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:10
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Hellsau posted:Wortbless sounds like a legendary Treefolk Cleric. They do? I see your point then, poo poo. I assumed MTG goldfish and vendors like them we're getting cut off from the data too. My point was people make split-second decisions before tournaments and buy like $100 worth of singles to side and mainboard based off of top eight results. Yeah I can see where you're coming from. I'm only now seeing the machine for what it truly is despite having played magic for 20 years. Magic is interesting af from an economic perspective. Listerine Hangover fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 22:14
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TheKingofSprings posted:I meant more like the MCU That kind of illustrates my point about the comics industry. But yeah, fair enough. Though best of luck to Hasbro at trying to copy that success. Shadow225 posted:I agree that Friday nights aren't ideal for nerd things because they conflict with not nerd things, but your options are kind of limited when running a single tournament of any type takes 3+ hours. I mean how was Saturday and/or Sunday worse for doing this thing? Forget wanting to do other stuff on a friday night, just going to a 4 round tournament on a friday night fucks up people's schedules a lot. Store I frequent (and most other stores in the city, really) don't start their FNM until 7-7:30 PM, simply so people can actually get off work and get there. And starting a 4 round event at 7:30 frequently means we end up finishing at 11 or later. Now, this kind of stuff might work in the US where cars are more prevalent, but I don't have a car, and most of the people who play at the store don't have one either. (I'm actually lucky that a friend of mine lives near my part of town, so I ride with him after FNM). I mean, maybe I am missing something, but an obvious solution to this would have been to just not have tournaments start at the end of a work day. The same kind of obvious solution to the problem of people saying your promos suck - make better promos.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:17
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Thursday night magic for life
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Jul 17, 2017 22:39
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This bit sticks out for me:WotC Idiots posted:in June, when Aether Hub was the FNM promo, attendance was not noticeably different than January, when Noose Constrictor was the promo. Maybe that's because halfway through June you had to emergency ban Marvel so for the whole month standard was in such a poo poo show that less people wanted to play even though there was a useful promo.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:42
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AceClown posted:This bit sticks out for me: I just can't get over "Promos make no difference in attendance so we have to switch to tokens so that people stop sharking FNMs which isn't happening." Also the dumb mtgo data change isn't going to stop netdeckers or make anyone's hot 3 card turn 12 combo any better against tuned decks than it was before, so I don't see what the big deal is. it mostly helps wotc control the metagame story (on their own site) and indirectly helps pros because their test data is going to be that much better than what people without dedicated testing teams has. Moving the PT will probably have a much larger effect in "netdecking" in general.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:46
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This is why I play commander with friends. And by friends I mean people that openly get upset when I bring Stax to their table of combo decks. Which I built because I was tired of playing against dumb combo decks. And sometimes Modern. Modern's fun.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:48
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One day I'll write an effort post about it but on a fundamental level Count Bleck is right, the elephant in WotC's room is EDH. It's overwhelmingly the format that get's played in stores day to day*, they can't control the cards going in to it on any appreciable level, it's very newbie friendly and I imagine very few people crack packs for that sweet sweet EDH tech. * My own observations, new player walks in store, asks about magic, gets pointed to a table of people playing EDH.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:53
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