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But you know, the only real way to ever get your enlisted men to respect you is if you enlist first. Oh yeah, OTS will be super easy to get into once you're enlisted.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:02
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Casimir Radon posted:I want to go elsewhere. I'd rather not be a comm officer. You can commission anywhere in the guard. the problem is, if you're not from that unit or you're degree/enlisted experience isn't related to that field, you stand little to no chance (unless its for Air Liaison Officer which is always in need).
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Jul 18, 2017 03:44
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xsf421 posted:Recruiters are scum and will say anything to get you to sign their papers over someone else's.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:50
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FWIW every non-rated, non-medical officer career field is essentially the same with maybe the exception of security forces and public affairs. You largely manage enlisted who do most or all of the work, and your job will consist mostly of signing paperwork like EPRs and sending off status reports to your group or squadron commander or whatever.
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Jul 18, 2017 06:04
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Also a LOT of base staff positions are seemingly only held by pilots, so have fun if you get a career field you hate. Supposedly it's harder for officers to switch AFSCs
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Jul 18, 2017 06:06
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Fat_Cow posted:He was trying to recommended that as an "alternative path" at the end of my phone call. Oh well Me thinks you didn't talk to an Officer recruiter. https://www.airforce.com/apply-now Or, if you're interested in initially full time, but then part time and the process moving a bit faster, look into your local Reserves/ANG unit.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:21
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Larry Parrish posted:FWIW every non-rated, non-medical officer career field is essentially the same with maybe the exception of security forces and public affairs. You largely manage enlisted who do most or all of the work, and your job will consist mostly of signing paperwork like EPRs and sending off status reports to your group or squadron commander or whatever.
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Jul 18, 2017 13:43
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Don't forget showing up in blues in front of the commander when one of your 19 year olds gets loving blitzed and throws empty beer bottles at the cops! Edit: The system probably is backlogged, but absolutely don't take the word of a recruiter who doesn't know jack poo poo about it.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:09
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Well gents it seems that the manpower study we've doing for our career field is finally going to derail the gravy train. Our leadership was startled to find out 42% of the career fields time is spent on non-career related stuff (volunteering, mandatory events ect). But on the flip side I found this gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCjZewPLBTc
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Jul 18, 2017 17:25
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So this made me laugh: The other day we had the new SecAF come by to speak to us. Our leadership decided long sleeve blues would be the UOD because reasons. First thing she asks when she gets in was "...is this the uniform you guys would normally wear today?" and we all told her no. She then proceeds to look at our general and say "...why?" Small moral victories keep me going. She did have some things to say that made me legit more happy than normal, but I'm waiting to see if any of it comes to fruition, i.e. reviewing all 1,306 AFIs we have to determine if they even need to exist anymore.
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Jul 18, 2017 19:26
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whatspeakyou posted:So this made me laugh: Ahahahahaha drat, she's already done more good than DLJ ever did
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Jul 18, 2017 20:20
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Fat_Cow posted:Nope. There wasn't an officer recruiter at station I called. So he offered to forward my information, and then told me about OTS being backed up, I declined after I heard about the two year wait. I may be the .01% or whatever but I was in your same situation - had my degree, wanted to commission, but didn't like the timeline/chances of being accepted, so I just enlisted and commissioned 4 years later. The bottom line for me was that my life sucked enough that enlisting was still better career progression than remaining in my worthless food service job. And I wouldn't trade that enlisted tour for anything.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:18
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Got a phone call from my flight chief like 5 minutes ago and seriously thought about just not answering but all she did was tell me I didn't make tech so I feigned some dispointment and told her every thing is alright. I was waiting for her to say something about being completely written off the schedule for the whole back half of the month but no one seems to notice or care so why should I?
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Jul 19, 2017 19:27
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Small update, the second recruiter i called gave me the number for the OTS recruiter after a round of questions about myself. When asked about the two year wait he simply said "it's case by case, and depends on what the need for X is at the time" so that's good news.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:01
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Expect it to be on the long side, honestly. You're looking at a career field that routinely gets pruned whenever Congress sneezes and cuts the max number of officers by 15,000. Being "undermanned" is not a common issue. That said, they still need to bring in X new guys for every career field to keep manning constant, so if there are few qualified applicants for your board or for the past year+, that helps your odds and timeline.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:25
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The Air Force is growing again* so that helps him out as well. *Planned FY17, not sure on FY18.
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Jul 20, 2017 08:31
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xaarman posted:The Air Force is growing again* so that helps him out as well. You mean the unit taskings are shrinking
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Jul 20, 2017 14:27
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*Your career field may vary
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Jul 20, 2017 14:29
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My wife is going through the commissioning process right now and she's been going at it for about a year now with the results for her board in about two weeks. If she's selected, she still has to wait for her medical clearance at MEPS and then an opening for her job before she can even go. The recruiter told her that it could be another year before she leaves for OTS after selection.
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Jul 20, 2017 18:05
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Casimir Radon posted:Who is still in in some capacity still? It has to be pretty small nowadays. I'm still in for now, made Major (98% promote rate wut wut) so hopefully I'll finally be able to PCS (been at this base near 8 years now). If they don't give me a good assignment though I'm out. Fat_Cow posted:Small update, the second recruiter i called gave me the number for the OTS recruiter after a round of questions about myself. When asked about the two year wait he simply said "it's case by case, and depends on what the need for X is at the time" so that's good news. So here's the deal: 1. nobody in recruiting will help you get an officer package in, this is because a. you don't count against the recruiters quota until you commission and b. the AF doesn't need officers who aren't self motivated. The OTS process is complicated and annoying and nobody cares to fix it because if you don't care enough to figure it out then they don't care enough to get you in. Go to AFOTS.com or whatever forum is in vogue now and read about other peoples experiences to help you along. The recruiter will drip feed you info whenever they feel like it, so you can either go with that and take a year to get a package built or you can get the forms yourself, fill them out, and have the recruiter just turn them in. My OTS->board->class date start took 8 months start to finish, and getting my package submitted took 3 weeks because I just did it all myself, went to the recruiter, dropped it in his lap and told him to submit it. He did ZERO work for another tick off his quota and was quite happy about it. 2. Don't go base admin, just don't. You will sit at a desk monitoring civilians either cutting ID cards for some assholes fat wife, or you'll be making sure people aren't peeing in the soap at the base gym (actually loving happened). At BEST you'll be running a civil engineering flight where you'll be sending airmen out to look at broke air-conditioners then contracting some civilian dude to come in and fix it at 300% markup. If you want to get in quick then just go rated. Be a pilot, be a CSO, be an ABM or something. The AF is desperate for all three, as long as you're not an idiot and don't have any felonies you'll get picked up. You'll go to OTS quick, and then you'll sit casual status making $45k a year to show up to work for 30 minutes to make sure you're all still alive, then you'll get released to go home to sit at the pool. 4 years later you'll be pushing 6 figures with flight pay and a fancy fireproof jumper and then when you get out you can find a job pretty much wherever. Senior staff at almost every AF base will mostly be flyers anyways, especially if that base has a runway (most AF bases!) so you'll actually be able to use your masters at some point in the distant future, more than you would as base admin I'd wager. The AF isn't that bad as an O so long as your job doesn't suck. You'll make drat good money, better than most of your peers on the outside, you'll travel a bit, and then after your commitment is up you can peace out for whatever other job you want on the outside. PS Don't go enlisted -> officer unless there's a very specific enlisted job you want that isn't offered to O's. It's actually harder to transition to officer from enlisted than it is to go O straight off the street in my experience. JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 22:39
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OTOH I know a guy who had a fairly easy time of it because our section chief called in some favors. But obviously you can't rely on that sort of thing
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Jul 21, 2017 03:29
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JacksLibido posted:2. Don't go base admin, just don't. You will sit at a desk monitoring civilians either cutting ID cards for some assholes fat wife, Wait, the Air Force has .mil people doing this? The head of the office at Meade was a civilian who told me I don't get to have an ID card because a dependent doesn't get benefits when a dead soldier's active duty period would have ended.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:14
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Casimir Radon posted:Who is still in in some capacity still? It has to be pretty small nowadays. *raises paw*
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Jul 21, 2017 04:23
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McNally posted:Wait, the Air Force has .mil people doing this? Sometimes.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:42
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Buca di Bepis posted:*raises paw*  Furry spotted!
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Jul 21, 2017 04:54
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I'm out. In the dark hours of the night I think about going back to the Reserves/Guard, because permanent health insurance would be nice, and I'm starting to think that it is time to admit that trying to make a go of it in California hasn't worked out.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:17
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McNally posted:Wait, the Air Force has .mil people doing this? Like Godholio said, sometimes. At my base it's all civilians cutting the cards and enlisted admin types doing awards and decs. There's a captain in the chain somewhere though, I couldn't say what they do or how they like it though. As far as I can tell the whole system is designed to randomly remove my system permissions thus making me wait 2 hours in line to get the certificates reloaded with a 50% success rate. I hate MPF with a passion. Larry Parrish posted:Also a LOT of base staff positions are seemingly only held by pilots, so have fun if you get a career field you hate. Supposedly it's harder for officers to switch AFSCs I just saw this: I can only speak for rated but it is essentially IMPOSSIBLE to switch AFSCs unless you're moving "up" the flying chain. Basically you can always apply to be a pilot, but you'll never be allowed to reclass into Intel or something unless you're medically disqualified from flying. When I came in the cool thing to do was get commissioned as a Nav then fail out the first few weeks, or just be "afraid to fly". The AF would then reclass you into whatever job you wanted because you at least started as aircrew. It was apparently the only way to get MX officer and I had a couple prior e OTS buddies flat out say that's exactly what they were doing. When the bosses found out they just started booting anybody who failed training. I think non-rated can do something like that with certain jobs, like I think you can apply for CRO as services or something, and I'd imagine they'd let you swap into critically manned fields but I don't hear of it often. And yes, nearly every job with actual decision making powers will usually be staffed by a flyer if its a primarily flying base. Some bases that are primarily other jobs, like acquisitions bases will have far fewer flyers but there'll probably still be a few. JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 08:31
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JacksLibido posted:And yes, nearly every job with actual decision making powers will usually be staffed by a flyer if its a primarily flying base. Some bases that are primarily other jobs, like acquisitions bases will have far fewer flyers but there'll probably still be a few. It probably doesn't help that not only was I only ever stationed in one place but I was part of base operations so the only non-flyers I ever saw at work was the cute LT running ATOC and once and a great while the MXO in charge of MOC would emerge but mostly he only existed on email CC's. But literally everyone in wing staff except I think maybe the CPTS/CC was a pilot flying a desk.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:34
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In a flying wing, that's normal and intentional.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:37
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JacksLibido posted:I'm still in for now, made Major (98% promote rate wut wut) so hopefully I'll finally be able to PCS (been at this base near 8 years now). If they don't give me a good assignment though I'm out. Appreciate the post. I contacted the recruiter Wendesday, left a message and sent a followup text message today with no response back either time. I may have to somehow find another Officer recruiter, which I have no idea how, unless I look in South Carolina instead of NC.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:29
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Realistically, there's an excellent chance the recruiter can't do anything for you until the new fiscal year, which starts Oct 1. I contacted my recruiter in August and was told to call back in October.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:57
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm out. My entire family moved out of California, we're in two states and two more provinces now. Once you leave you'll never go back
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Jul 22, 2017 03:15
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Godholio posted:Realistically, there's an excellent chance the recruiter can't do anything for you until the new fiscal year, which starts Oct 1. I contacted my recruiter in August and was told to call back in October. I mean, I haven't even talked to them in the first place. Also the previous goon suggested a rated job over a base admin job, I dont want to be a pilot, but the other two jobs they suggested look okay. What is different with rated jobs if I apply to OTS, I assume as long as my test scores are fine they'll want me in?
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Jul 22, 2017 03:24
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Hotel Kpro posted:My entire family moved out of California, we're in two states and two more provinces now. Once you leave you'll never go back I'm probably going to have to move but my entire family is here except for my grandfather's birth family.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:34
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With a rated position, you are specifically selected for OTS to become one of those jobs. If you apply to be a pilot, you're selected for OTS to be a pilot or not at all. If you go non-rated, you're applying for OTS and hoping the Air Force later assigns you a job that isn't hell. You find out your career field about halfway through the course. Rated and non-rated also meet different boards. So a different group of people will be making the decision, and at different times of the year. Edit: It might be worth mentioning that Air Force is currently so utterly hosed that it can't keep fighter pilots from running for the door as soon as their commitment is up, despite offering a re-signing bonus of almost half a million dollars if you take the long commitment. One of the coolest loving jobs in the world, and they're banging on the doors to get out. Be drat sure this is what you want before you start signing paperwork. Godholio fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 03:35
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Fat_Cow posted:Appreciate the post. I contacted the recruiter Wendesday, left a message and sent a followup text message today with no response back either time. I may have to somehow find another Officer recruiter, which I have no idea how, unless I look in South Carolina instead of NC. Don't just wait on the recruiter, go to AFOTS.com or whatever forum people are using now and find out what the next board dates are and research what you need to get started. When I put in my package you needed to have 3 letters of recommendation, an AFOQT score, a TBAS and a full flight physical. You'll need the recruiter to schedule the tests, but you want to be ready to take them ASAP. When you DO get in contact with the recruiter you want to be able to say you have a bunch of stuff already done, forms already filled out ready to go, and you just need him to schedule out your tests for you. Godholio posted:With a rated position, you are specifically selected for OTS to become one of those jobs. If you apply to be a pilot, you're selected for OTS to be a pilot or not at all. If you go non-rated, you're applying for OTS and hoping the Air Force later assigns you a job that isn't hell. You find out your career field about halfway through the course. Rated boards also have a FAR higher acceptance rate as well. My Nav board it was 95%, and right now I hear pilot boards are pushing 80%, I've even seen them take dudes with DUIs as a civilian (something that will kill your career in the AF). For comparison, Non-rated boards are regularly around ~40% acceptance. Every flying career is hurting for people. Remember how we said that most of the Admin jobs are filled by flyers? Yeah that's a great example of why flyers are getting out in droves. People who joined to fly planes, drop bombs, or otherwise do flying stuff are being stuck behind desks to pick the color of the new maternity ward (which you said you wanted right?). ALSO pilots are leaving in droves because they can instantly transition into jobs where they'll be making $200k+ in 3-4 years doing nothing but flying planes, which is definitely a big part of it too. I mean, Fat_Cow you have no job right? So how are you going to say no to a job that will have you making 6 figures in 6 years, and will pretty much guarantee you a job doubling that when you hit your 10 year mark? Why don't you want to be a pilot? EVERYTHING in the air force is dedicated towards putting planes in the air and shooting stuff and pilots are the ones flying those planes. Everything is heavily slanted to pamper pilots, why would you not want to be one of them? CSO and ABMs are great jobs but they're both definitely below pilots in the eyes of the Air Force, and non-rated are far below all of them. If you really don't want to be a pilot, I'd go CSO over ABM, but I'm biased since I'm a CSO. All the ABMs I've met have been generally grumpy and not really happy with their jobs. CSOs you at least have a decent shot at being happy with your jobs. With some CSO positions you're just that guy in the back (F15E CSOs), some CSO positions you're the boss (EC130H, AC130). I like my job for the most part, the only reason I'm looking at getting out is because I want to live overseas and I've found some good paying jobs (~100k, not including COLA and tax incentives) in some places I'd like to live. CSOs at least aren't getting out in droves like pilots, though I think that's because CSOs can't roll into high paying airline jobs like pilots can. As an aside I think fighter pilots in general are gutting their own career field with all the stupid poo poo they do to themselves. I was about to drop a pilot package this year but decided not to since after 8 years working tactical missions the only planes I'd want to fly are fighters, and gently caress that fighter lifestyle. A 12 hour day for a 2 hour sortie? Pointing with my elbows, paying money every time you say head or box? All the stupid little poo poo they make the new guys do, it's just retarded. TBH it really just sounds like they're so bored doing nothing but flying cap and pretending to fight at LFEs that they just started making up stupid poo poo to vent all that excess alpha energy they got going on. It would be amazing to fly an F16 or something, but I just couldn't deal with that after the chill herk life. JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 23:32
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Grumpy former ABM here. Everything in that post is accurate. Mission planning pain for fighters is unit-dependent, though. If you're in a squadron that has it's poo poo squared away and had a decent commander and patch, it's more common sense than you'd think. Edit: I loving loved flying. CENTCOM missions were boring as gently caress, but the food was good. My problems were that I almost never got to fly unless I was TDY (required to fly once every month, so that's what I got), and between deployments, spin-up for deployment, upgrade training, sitting alert, and the aforementioned TDYs, I didn't get to go on leave and visit my kid for three years. I loved flying in the Air Force. I loving hated the Air Force. Godholio fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 00:25
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JacksLibido posted:Don't just wait on the recruiter, go to AFOTS.com or whatever forum people are using now and find out what the next board dates are and research what you need to get started. When I put in my package you needed to have 3 letters of recommendation, an AFOQT score, a TBAS and a full flight physical. You'll need the recruiter to schedule the tests, but you want to be ready to take them ASAP. Awesome post again. The reason I would shy away from pilot is mostly due stress/anxiety on flying a large aircraft. I mean I would be able to fly (got PRK surgery), but I dont think my personality meshes well with that sorta job. Mission planning does sound interesting since planning sorta meshes with my Masters (city Planning v mission planning), which I assume have goals, objectives, etc. Do these rated jobs have high AFOQT score requirements or is it just apart of the entire application package? Also lets say I got everything done, testing physical etc and dropped it off. Could you make an estimate on how much of a wait it would be? We talking less than a year I assume?
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Jul 23, 2017 01:22
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Fat_Cow posted:Awesome post again. The reason I would shy away from pilot is mostly due stress/anxiety on flying a large aircraft. I mean I would be able to fly (got PRK surgery), but I dont think my personality meshes well with that sorta job. Mission planning does sound interesting since planning sorta meshes with my Masters (city Planning v mission planning), which I assume have goals, objectives, etc. Do these rated jobs have high AFOQT score requirements or is it just apart of the entire application package? You have to be a flyer to do mission planning. I suppose intel could help with certain airframes, but by and large it's a flying thing. As for the personality thing, all I'll say is me now looks almost nothing like me back when I first started. OTS does a great job of getting you into a habit of saying "fuckit" with all the stupid rear end queep they make you do. I was terrified of flying when I showed up to IFS, but I knew that I was going to get into that tiny rear end DA20 and fly it because "fuckit" I'm not going to die, might as well keep going. From there, flight training will turn you into a type A personality whether you want it to or not. I say all that to again point out that the entire point of the AF is to fly airplanes and blow stuff up. If you want the funnest jobs with the best promotion potential, you'll want a job that involves flying airplanes. There is also a very real quality of life difference between rated and non-rated. High AFOQT scores are not a requirement for rated positions, you'll actually need higher scores to go non-rated. I gave you the wrong link before, it's airforceots.com. Go there, look at what other people are getting picked up with for whatever jobs you're interested in. You'll also be able to see the time lapse between board dates and shipping out dates. The AF will look at everything you submit: scores, GPA, prior flight experience, and your letters of recommendation. Any leadership type stuff you did prior to joining will also help you out. I don't know when the next board date is, I think there's 2 a year for Rated jobs, spring/fall, so you'll probably be looking at sometime September. If you were super proactive and got a package built quick you could meet the the fall board, then figure 2-3 months from board meeting to results posted, then maybe 3-5 months until your OTS date. Those are wild rear end guesses though, you'll need to do that research on your own on the various OTS forums.
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Jul 23, 2017 02:19
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While there are AFOQT minimums, the scores are used as one of the factors to rank the applicants. It's in your best interests to kick its rear end whether you go rated or not...you're competing against hundreds of people for each slot.
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Jul 23, 2017 02:37
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