2017 The NFC East: Home of Super Bowl Champions Philadelphia Eagles

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euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I love the eagles and wants may be garbage it's true

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:11

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# ? May 9, 2024 20:04

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I just don't trust white qbs

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:12

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

euphronius posted:

I just don't trust white qbs

mods?

That's too bad though because Carson Wentz is about as white as you can get.

Would it help if he started hanging out with Embiid?

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:16

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

NotWearingPants posted:

mods?

That's too bad though because Carson Wentz is about as white as you can get.

Would it help if he started hanging out with Embiid?

I don't see that ever happening tho they are both christians

Embiid is catholic tho which probably doesn't count in wentzs opinion

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:17

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

to make up for the lack of content in my recent posts here are two Jason Peters videos I lifted from a blog

https://twitter.com/OLineScout/status/887134728687669248

https://twitter.com/OLineScout/status/887135616638607360

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:25

Levitate: Sep 30, 2005; randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENI�RE IN ME

Looks like he outweighs both of those guys put together

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:46

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

Jason Peters does not like the Redskins. Especially since they tried to murder Foles.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 05:08

89: Feb 24, 2006; #worldchamps

That game was a lot of fun

# ? Jul 19, 2017 07:52

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

Stadium was ready to riot if Peters didn't do it for us. Why do the Redskins always lay cheap shots on the Eagles at the Linc? It's infuriating. Remember this poo poo too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWsXhOjcGvM

# ? Jul 19, 2017 09:11

89: Feb 24, 2006; #worldchamps

This is why the Redskins don't deserve a franchise QB.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 09:14

89: Feb 24, 2006; #worldchamps

All I know is that we've got the Redskins on Monday night this year. :getin:

# ? Jul 19, 2017 09:19

A Man and his dog: Oct 24, 2013; by R. Guyovich

This made me think of the Vick MNF game years back and dear god.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 11:41

a new study bible!: Feb 2, 2009; BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly

We were all so high on the Chip

# ? Jul 19, 2017 12:48

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

a new study bible! posted:

We were all so high on the Chip

Who?

# ? Jul 19, 2017 13:29

89: Feb 24, 2006; #worldchamps

A Man and his dog posted:

This made me think of the Vick MNF game years back and dear god.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSLWk0q_vu8

Was that season that made me a lifelong Eagles fan.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 14:01

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

x-post from the main N/V thread as I figured it may generate more discussion here.

Doug Pederson was the most aggressive coach in the league on 4th down last season, plans to be more aggressive this year at the advice of his analytics people. Jimmy Kempski over at Philly Voice did a full write-up of all his attempts, it's a good read.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/expect-doug-pederson-continue-be-aggressive-fourth-down/

Jimmy Kempski posted:

Expect Doug Pederson to continue to be aggressive on fourth down

Doug Pederson did not make scared decisions in his first season as the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, unlike his predecessor, who some referred to as 'Big Balls Chip' Kelly.

Last season, Pederson went for it on fourth down 27 times, most in the NFL. In fact, only two teams (the Texans with 23, and the Rams with 20) attempted to go for it 20 or more times in 2016. The 27 times Pederson went for it on fourth down matched the number of times Kelly went for it in 2014 and 2015, combined.

The reality in the NFL is that teams should go for it on fourth down more than they do, according to the percentages. But more often than not, NFL head coaches lean absurdly too far to the conservative side. Fans have even adopted the conservative approach, as one of the common criticisms of Pederson during his rookie season as a head coach was that he was too aggressive on fourth down.

If you're among the criticizers of Pederson's approach to fourth down, it's probably not going to change. And actually, Pederson may be even more aggressive on fourth down in 2017.

This offseason, Pederson met with analyst Ryan Paganetti along with Vice President of Football Operations and Strategy Alec Halaby to review Pederson's fourth down calls a season ago.

"The decision necessarily to go for it I felt like were all legit decisions to go, personally," said Pederson. "Whether we executed the play or not that�s another (story).

"But those were all situations that when you look at stuff like that I look at how our defense is performing, special teams, and really just how well are we executing on offense.�

Pederson said that the feedback that he received from Paganetti and Halaby was that he should have perhaps gone for it on fourth down even more than he did last season.

"I just know there are areas of the field based on analytics and some of the things that come up that maybe going into this year, without giving out a lot of information, where you might go for it in those situations," he said. "So those are all things if we get into these preseason games � and really you can try some things in preseason a little bit without getting crazy, but there are some based on the analytics out there that there are some areas of the field that are interesting, that you can actually decide to go for it.�

I was curious to see if I agreed with Pederson's assertion that they were right to go for it every time that they did a season ago, so I went back and looked at all of Pederson's fourth down attempts:

1) Week 1: 4th and 4 from the Browns� 40-yard line, Eagles leading 15-10

Wentz finds Ertz over the middle for 5 yards and a first down. Next play: 35-yard TD pass from Wentz to Agholor.

#JimmySays: This was a situation where the Eagles were in sort of that no-man's land juuuust outside field goal range, but where you're likely not going to get a whole lot of net yards by punting. So many teams make the infuriatingly wrong decision to punt here. Not Pederson. He converted, and was rewarded with a score.

Week 2: 4th and 2 from the Bears� 28-yard line, Eagles� opening drive, no score.

Wentz finds DGB for a nine-yard completion and a first down. Eagles drive eventually stalls and they settle for a 25-yard chip shot field goal.

#JimmySays: The Eagles were moving the ball efficiently on this drive, so Pederson rolled the dice a bit that they could convert despite being in field goal range. Personally, I like the aggressiveness.

Week 2: 4th and Goal at the Bears� 1-yard line, Eagles leading 22-7, 10:36 left in the game.

Ryan Mathews rushes wide left for an easy TD.

#JimmySays: Up 15 already, if you kick an easy FG here, you're up three scores in the fourth quarter. I'd have taken the three here.

Week 2: 4th and 6 at the Bears� 26-yard line, Eagles leading 29-7, 2:13 left in the game.

Wentz finds Matthews for seven yards and a first down. The Eagles then run out the rest of the clock.

#JimmySays: Sure, whatever. The game by this point was out of reach, and Pederson didn't want the Bears to get the ball back. Get the first down, kneel on it, and head home.

Week 7: 4th and 2 at the Vikings� 44-yard line, 1:21 left in the first half, Eagles leading 8-3.

Wentz takes it himself for a 6-yard rush and a first down. As a result, the Eagles kick a 35-yard field goal as time expires in the first half.

#JimmySays: Ballsy call, and I love it. If you don't convert, you give the Vikings a chance to score going the other way before the end of the first half. But if you do, you're likely going to get at least a field goal, which the Eagles did. Does anyone really even remember this call? Most probably don't, and there's a reason why. There's no doubt Pederson would have been criticized had he not converted here, but because he did... crickets. Observers tend to only remember the calls that go wrong.

Week 9: 4th and 2 from the Giants� 23-yard line, 15:00 left in the second quarter, Eagles trailing 14-3.

Wentz takes it himself, but is thrown for a four-yard loss. Turnover on downs instead of a 40-yard field goal attempt.

#JimmySays: This play call was bad, but I have no problem with trying to be aggressive down 11 points.

Week 9: 4th and 1 from the Giants� 6-yard line, 3:55 left in the second quarter, Eagles trailing 21-10.

Sproles tries the right side, but is tackled for no gain. Turnover on downs instead of a 23-yard field goal attempt.

#JimmySays: At the six-yard line with a yard to go down 11? In my view, this is a no-brainer call to go for it. Get 7, not 3. In this case, the Eagles did not convert, so Pederson was roundly criticized.

Week 9: 4th and 9 from the Giants� 46-yard line, 6:12 left in the game, Eagles trailing 28-20.

Wentz finds Matthews for 25 yards and first down. The drive eventually stalls, with Caleb Sturgis hitting a 38-yard field goal.

#JimmySays: This was not a no-brainer call, especially needing nine yards. I might have punted here, but Pederson went the aggressive route and converted.

Week 9: 4th and 10 from the Giants� 17-yard line, 1:28 left in the game, Eagles trailing 28-23.

In a no-brainer �go for it� situation, Wentz misfires on a fade route to Matthews, essentially ending the game.

#JimmySays: The Eagles didn't have any timeouts left and three points did them no good. No-brainer decision.

Week 10: 4th and 1 from the Falcons� 48-yard line, 8 seconds left in the half, Eagles leading 7-6.

Trying one more play to get into field goal range, Wentz throws incomplete to Agholor. The Falcons then had one play to try a Hail Mary, which failed.

#JimmySays: This was another interesting call. With 8 seconds left, if you convert, you have a chance at a long field goal before the end of the half. If you don't, there's only enough time for your opponent to try a Hail Mary. I would go for this every time unless I already had a big lead.

Week 11: 4th and 3 from the Seahawks� 41-yard line, 10:42 left in the game, Eagles trailing 26-7.

Wentz pass to Ertz falls incomplete.

#JimmySays: Down by 19 with under 11 minutes to go, Pederson made the obvious decision to go for it here.

Week 11: 4th and 3 from the Seahawks� 17-yard line, 4:36 left in the game, Eagles trailing 26-7.

Wentz to DGB for 8 yards and a first down. The Eagles score a TD two plays later.

#JimmySays: Again, the obvious call based on the score and the time remaining.

Week 11: 4th and 10 from the 50-yard line, 1:52 left in the game, Eagles trailing 26-15.

In desperation mode, the Eagles go for it on 4th and 10, and Wentz�s pass to Matthews falls incomplete, essentially ending the game.

#JimmySays: One last time, the obvious call based on the score and the time remaining.

Week 12: 4th and 29 from the Eagles� 18-yard line, 1:05 left in the game, Eagles trailing 27-13.

Wentz throws complete to Sproles, who gains 14 yards, short of the first down, ending the game.

#JimmySays: The next week, again in desperation mode, obvious decision.

Week 13: 4th and 5 from the Bengals� 13-yard line, 2:30 left in the third quarter, Eagles trailing 29-0.

Eagles convert with a Wentz TD pass to Ertz.

#JimmySays: Some might kick the field goal here just to get on the board, which is beyond stupid. Pederson makes the obvious decision to go for it, and the Eagles scored.

Week 13: 4th and 1 from the Bengals� 26-yard line, 9:21 left in the game, Eagles trailing 29-7.

Wentz throws complete to Agholor for 8 yards and a first down, eventually leading to another fourth down decision�

#JimmySays: Down 22 with nine minutes to go, again, another easy call.

Week 13: 4th and 5 from the Bengals� 13-yard line, 7:46 left in the game, Eagles trailing 29-7.

Wentz again finds Agholor for 8 yards and a first down. Sproles rushes for a two yard TD two plays later.

#JimmySays: Again, some coaches might kick the field goal here, which would be absurdly dumb. Pederson went for it and got 7 instead of 3.

Week 13: 4th and 3 from the Bengals� 31-yard line, 4:03 left in the game, Eagles trailing 29-14.

Vontaze Burfict picks off Wentz on a great play.

#JimmySays: Score and time remaining dictated that Pederson go for it here.

Week 13: 4th and 3 from the Bengals� 24-yard line, 0:26 left in the game, Eagles trailing 32-14.

Wentz misses Burton. The Bengals kneel on it once and the game is over.

#JimmySays: With the game sealed in "who cares" mode, the Eagles go for it and don't convert.

Week 14: 4th and 2 from the Redskins� 37-yard line, 5:04 left in the third quarter, Eagles trailing 14-13.

Wentz finds Ertz for 8 yards and a first down. Drive eventually stalls with an aborted field goal attempt, noted next.

#JimmySays: Long snapper Jon Dorenbos had gotten hurt earlier in the game, so the Eagles weren't going to attempt a 54-yard field goal with him out. I would have gone for this anyway, even with Dorenbos out.

Week 14: 4th and 13 from the Redskins� 32-yard line, 3:29 left in the third quarter, Eagles trailing 14-13.

Eagles try a field goal, but a bad snap from Brent Celek leads to an aborted field goal attempt.

#JimmySays: Obviously, the intent here was not to go for it, but it counts as a missed 4th down attempt in the stat sheet.

Week 14: 4th and 1 from the Redskins� 34-yard line, 7:27 left in the game, Eagles trailing 21-19.

Wentz picks up a first down on a rush. The Eagles later convert on a more manageable 41-yard attempt.

#JimmySays: Opting to go for it instead of attempting a 51-yard field goal with a backup long snapper, Pederson makes the correct call again. And again, I would go for it here even if Dorenbos hadn't gotten hurt.

Week 15: 4th and 1 from the Ravens� 34-yard line, 4:54 left in the second quarter, Eagles trailing 13-11.

Wentz finds Ertz for 8 yards. Eagles eventually settle for an easier 34-yard field goal attempt which is good.

#JimmySays: It's one yard. Go for it instead of trying a difficult 51-yard field goal. Right call.

Week 15: 4th and 3 from the Ravens� 39-yard line, 8:05 left in the third quarter, Eagles trailing 20-14.

Wentz throws incomplete to Burton. Ravens proceed to go 3-and-out.

#JimmySays: At the 39-yard line, again, you're in no-man's land. Pederson correctly opts not to punt.

Week 15: 4th and 2 from the Ravens� 34-yard line, 7:49 left in the game, Eagles trailing 27-17.

Eagles try an end-around to Agholor, who has a clear path to a first down but runs out of bounds short of the sticks for a gain of 1.

#JimmySays: Again, correct call, especially down two scores, and the players were in a position with a good play call to convert, but Agholor did not execute.

Week 16: 4th and Goal from the Giants� 1-yard line, 1:18 left in the third quarter, Eagles leading 21-16.

Eagles try Mathews up the middle, but he�s stuffed for a 1-yard loss.

#JimmySays: There aren't many scenarios where I wouldn't go for it on 4th and Goal inside the 1.

Week 17: 4th and 9 from the Cowboys� 34-yard line, 5:57 left in the first half, Eagles trailing 10-3.

Wentz pass falls incomplete to Trey Burton.

#JimmySays: In a game of meaning, I'd attempt a field goal here on 4th and 9 instead of going for it. But with the season over, what the hell.

So, in conclusion, I'm personally on board with about 95 percent of the fourth down calls in which Pederson went for it last season. Pederson's aggression on fourth down a season ago should be applauded, not knocked.

I love Doug Pederson's aggressiveness. He's doing everything we were promised the Great Charlatan and Swindler C*** K**** promised.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 16:43

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

I like going for it on 4th down but lol at doing it for poo poo like this

quote:

Week 9: 4th and 10 from the Giants� 17-yard line, 1:28 left in the game, Eagles trailing 28-23.

If you're going to do this kind of analysis, you're better served picking a winning team, since losing teams are more likely to be forced to go for it on 4th down late in games and it doesn't make them 'gutsy'. More than half of those are "no brainer" calls where the time and score call for that action

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:47

a new study bible!: Feb 2, 2009; BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly

TheChirurgeon posted:

If you're going to do this kind of analysis, you're better served picking a winning team, since losing teams are more likely to be forced to go for it on 4th down late in games and it doesn't make them 'gutsy'. More than half of those are "no brainer" calls where the time and score call for that action

This is a good point

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:18

Athanatos: Jun 7, 2006; Est. 1967

A Man and his dog posted:

This made me think of the Vick MNF game years back and dear god.

That game had that feel of 2002 Vick who was just so amazing to watch.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:57

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

Athanatos posted:

That game had that feel of 2002 Vick who was just so amazing to watch.

that game was sick. I remember I was up like 35 pts in fantasy that week coming into the MNF game against an opp with Vick and DJax and I had lost by the time Philly's second drive started

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:59

a new study bible!: Feb 2, 2009; BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly

From the main thread:

warcrimes posted:

https://twitter.com/fishsports/status/887793140152881152

Gee, I wonder what type of person at the bar that night would have the power to make a victim of assault just poof away and ghost on the whole thing...

# ? Jul 19, 2017 23:56

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

a new study bible! posted:

From the main thread:

Gee, I wonder what type of person at the bar that night would have the power to make a victim of assault just poof away and ghost on the whole thing...

Are you implying that Jerry Jones was at the bar

# ? Jul 20, 2017 00:05

corn on the cop: Oct 12, 2012; Break what must be broken, once for all, that's all, and take the suffering on oneself.

â Corey Dostoyevsky

TheChirurgeon posted:

Are you implying that Jerry Jones was at the bar

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...m=.ab0f06b161d4

# ? Jul 20, 2017 00:40

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

please dont make such long posts about the eagles ITT

# ? Jul 20, 2017 04:25

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

I hate that I like the Cowboys sometimes, really.

# ? Jul 20, 2017 10:28

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

https://twitter.com/Philly__Nation/status/871053372060835840

Ertz is going to have a breakout year this season.

source: any Eagles preview from the past three years.

# ? Jul 20, 2017 17:44

KIM JONG TRILL: Nov 29, 2006; GIN AND JUCHE

Raku posted:

You can't identify Zeke "Looks like a Natural History Museum Exhibit" Elliot?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 02:24

89: Feb 24, 2006; #worldchamps

NFL is finishing up their investigation of Ezekial Elliott. The Cowboys are working out RB Denard Robinson.

Come onnnnnnnnn, suspend his dumb rear end for 6+ weeks so the inevitable destruction and Dak getting exposed begins asap.

Also

89 fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 18:45

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

what the gently caress is this poo poo

# ? Jul 21, 2017 18:53

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

ezekiel elliot

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:20

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

Zeke probably could legit use a shave

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:23

Quiet Feet: Dec 14, 2009; THE HELL IS WITH THIS ASS!?

NotWearingPants posted:

Ertz is going to have a breakout year this season.

What year is this?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:33

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

Quiet Feet posted:

What year is this?

It's fun to joke about how Ertz never reaches expectations, but that's mostly because the expectations are sometimes a little too ambitious. Also he kind of plays like a pussy sometimes so he becomes a target for fan ire.

For comparison sake:

Ertz (4 years): 247 catches, 2840 yards, 13 TDs

Jordan Reed (4 years): 248 catches, 2602 yards, 20 TDs.

Witten's first 4 years: 252 catches, 2838 yards, 14 TDs

Bavaro's first 4 years: 211 catches, 3051 yards, 20 TDs

He needs to work on getting those TD numbers up, and becoming a better blocker would be nice, but as a receiving TE, he's elite now.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:20

Impossibly Perfect Sphere: Nov 6, 2002; They wasted Luanne on Lucky!

She could of have been so much more but the writers just didn't care!

Good yes, elite no.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:24

Pron on VHS: Nov 14, 2005; Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling

Should probably do per game stats, pretty sure Ertz has played nearly an extra full season of snaps than Jordan Reed during those 4 years. Written also didn't play much his first year

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:33

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Good yes, elite no.

A matter of opinion. Not every TE can have Brady throwing him passes every game. Ertz has done pretty well catching passes from Vick, Foles, Brady, Sanchez, Bradford, and now Wentz in his rookie year with no other receiving threats.

SHOAH NUFF posted:

Should probably do per game stats, pretty sure Ertz has played nearly an extra full season of snaps than Jordan Reed during those 4 years. Written also didn't play much his first year

I did notice that but I felt it wasn't worth noting because it's not like its an aberration with Reed and he'd probably be the NFL leader in the "any game he plays might be his last" category if there was one.

NotWearingPants fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:40

Quiet Feet: Dec 14, 2009; THE HELL IS WITH THIS ASS!?

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

Good yes, elite no.

Exactly. He's not trash and there are plenty of worse TEs starting for different teams out there, but I'd hesitate to call him elite. He's somewhere between average and good. You can't argue with his speed but his hands are just okay and he doesn't always seem to know where he's supposed to be on the field.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:41

Impossibly Perfect Sphere: Nov 6, 2002; They wasted Luanne on Lucky!

She could of have been so much more but the writers just didn't care!

NotWearingPants posted:

A matter of opinion. Not every TE can have Brady throwing him passes every game. Ertz has done pretty well catching passes from Vick, Foles, Brady, Sanchez, Bradford, and now Wentz in his rookie year with no other receiving threats.

"Pretty well" is not elite, and as you say his blocking is not good.

There are several guys you can make the argument for that are better than Ertz. So I would hesitate to call a player elite if he's not in the top five of his position.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:50

NotWearingPants: Jan 3, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Nap Ghost

Quiet Feet posted:

Exactly. He's not trash and there are plenty of worse TEs starting for different teams out there, but I'd hesitate to call him elite. He's somewhere between average and good. You can't argue with his speed but his hands are just okay and he doesn't always seem to know where he's supposed to be on the field.

I think his hands are excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaZTVVx3v8w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnCErnxxXio

But valid criticisms would be his lack of effort in breaking tackles and poor commitment to following though on blocks.

Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

"Pretty well" is not elite, and as you say his blocking is not good.

There are several guys you can make the argument for that are better than Ertz. So I would hesitate to call a player elite if he's not in the top five of his position.

I did specify "as a receiving TE". And he was #5 in catches and yards. So by your metrics, that's elite.

NotWearingPants fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 21:53

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# ? May 9, 2024 20:04

Marklar: Jul 24, 2003; Ball is Love
Ball is Life

Ertz seems to have random nagging injuries from time to time. Hope he can stay healthy.

# ? Jul 22, 2017 18:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > 2017 The NFC East: Home of Super Bowl Champions Philadelphia Eagles

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