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I didn't like the Klingon designs in JJTrek either, because i really dig the hair and beards and it's such an iconic design now. I can forgive the redesign in TMP, because that was the first time, but at some point i'd expect some consistency, specially when Vulcans stayed the same and:McSpanky posted:they keep using those better budgets and advances to make lame poo poo Imagine the Star Wars Han Solo movie released tomorrow, except Chewbacca was changed to look like a Khajiit. Anyway, that design won't make or break Discovery for me, i just think it's really unnecessary, especially after the augment virus crap had settled down. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 23:59
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marktheando posted:That's the thing though, they do look pretty much the same. Especially compared to their last appearance in Into Darkness. You know what really frustrates me? If you watch Farscape, almost every alien, even the ones who are just people with funny foreheads (or hair or tattoos or whatever) has contact lenses as part of their makeup. And it REALLY helps sell them as ALIEN. Versus Doctor Who and Star Trek, there's all this effort to put people in rubber foreheads and makeup, and then they just have normal eyes, and it totally undermines the effort put into their makeup.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:26
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VitalSigns posted:Was the assholishness only pre-TOS? Vulcans seemed plenty assholish post-TOS and also in TOS. Well, the episode does explain that her only option for space divorce was the fight to the death. T'Pring posted:You have become much known among our people, Spock. Almost a legend. And as the years went by, I came to know that I did not want to be the consort of a legend. But by the laws of our people, I could only divorce you by the kal-if-fee. There was also Stonn, who wanted very much to be my consort, and I wanted him. If your Captain were victor, he would not want me, and so I would have Stonn. If you were victor you would free me because I had dared to challenge, and again I would have Stonn. But if you did not free me, it would be the same. For you would be gone, and I would have your name and your property, and Stonn would still be there. Yeah, man, she was totally going to nail Stonn in Spock's own bed every seven years.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:27
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Frionnel posted:I didn't like the Klingon designs in JJTrek either, because i really dig the hair and beards and it's such an iconic design now. I can forgive the redesign in TMP, because that was the first time, but at some point i'd expect some consistency, specially when Vulcans stayed the same Maybe the shaggy hair Klingon look is like earth's handlebar moustaches and lumberjack beards. The 24th century Klingons you saw rocking that style are really just hipsters doing an ironic 2250's thing.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:34
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TheScott2K posted:The older I get the fewer fucks I give about continuity and in-universe explanations for things caused by better budgets, passing time, etc. If it's just some fictional entertainment, then sure. But for a lot of us, Star Trek is a universe we've invested in for years, sometimes decades. We've studied it, read books on it's history, and watched the video of it's world unfold over hundreds of years. Now put that same argument towards an actual historical show: would people who knew history not be upset if somebody decided to do a "reboot" of a show about the US military but set it during WWII and had all kinds of anachronistic gadgets, different, ahistorical uniforms, played around with the life stories of known historical figures, and wanted to pretend it was in the same world? If you want to do your own show, go do your own show. Don't' gently caress up my Star Trek. poo poo, if you want to reboot it, say you're rebooting it. But don't try and pretend this somehow fits in. 
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Jul 19, 2017 02:00
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Astroman posted:If it's just some fictional entertainment, then sure. This post could work equally well on the eve of TNG's release
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Jul 19, 2017 02:05
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Zonko_T.M. posted:You know what really frustrates me? If you watch Farscape, almost every alien, even the ones who are just people with funny foreheads (or hair or tattoos or whatever) has contact lenses as part of their makeup. And it REALLY helps sell them as ALIEN. Marina Sirtis and Brent Spiner wore contacts every day. LeVar Burton wore contacts every time they pulled the VISOR off him.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:10
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Zonko_T.M. posted:You know what really frustrates me? If you watch Farscape, almost every alien, even the ones who are just people with funny foreheads (or hair or tattoos or whatever) has contact lenses as part of their makeup. And it REALLY helps sell them as ALIEN. Not to disagree with the idea that weird eyes makes aliens more alien, but Doctor Who as a show seems far more interested in pushing the idea that aliens aren't all that alien at all and the more human eyes can be seen as a reflection of that.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:13
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cheetah7071 posted:This post could work equally well on the eve of TNG's release TNG wasn't a prequel tho
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Jul 19, 2017 02:13
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cheetah7071 posted:This post could work equally well on the eve of TNG's release You don't have to tell me, I was there, maaaaaaan! I was an honest to goodness old school Star Trek fan, pre TNG. I'd watched it on and off as a kid, but went in hard for it around 85/86 when I was around 10 years old. So I'd had several years to watch all of TOS, read tons of Pocket Books, pore over Technical Manuals and blueprints, and I was excited but also extremely skeptical. What's with this bald wimpy captain? Why is the saucer section so huge and unbalanced? What happened in the past 80 years? Is it even in continuity with TOS and the movies or is it a reboot? Will it suck and ruin Star Trek forever? These were all things that went through my mind. But it was good, and the stuff they introduced (holodecks, PADDs, cool new tiny phasers) was really great, as were the new alien races. The first couple years were OK, but when it hit it's stride at Season 3 you really got a sense you were watching something new, a higher form of Quality TV. But the one thing TNG had going for it was it WASN'T a prequel. You set something in the future, you've got license to change whatever the gently caress you want as far as I'm concerned. I've said for years the should do Star Trek: The Next Next Generation for the next show. Set it 100 years past Voyager. Change up all the design, technology, uniforms. Have nobody from the old shows alive. Leave it a mystery, at least for awhile, what's gone on in the past century politically and socially. Introduce lots of new aliens. And just go and explore strange new worlds. It's Star Trek, but it's whatever the writers and showrunners want it to be. They're trying to do the exact same thing with Discovery, but also make it a prequel, and I have no idea why. 
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Jul 19, 2017 02:28
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Astroman posted:But for a lot of us, Star Trek is a universe we've invested in for years, sometimes decades. We've studied it, read books on it's history, and watched the video of it's world unfold over hundreds of years. This is exactly the sort of dross that age should teach you realize isn't important. Fictional entertainment isn't something you invest in.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:42
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MisterBibs posted:Fictional entertainment isn't something you invest in. Says man who paid money for a Jurassic World avatar.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:44
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WampaLord posted:Says man who paid money for a Jurassic World avatar. Nah, this was a gift from someone else, a long time ago. I don't even know where the original parts of it came from, and wish I did.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:47
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It's the same Klingons you remember from the profitable STAR TREK franchise, but now completely different! It's "darker and edgier" for today's teens with money for subscription services burning holes in their hahaha I can't finish
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Jul 19, 2017 02:58
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Wait, is it wrong now to think that a franchise should be happy... hell, delighted to have fans that have invested years or decades to them? Should all fans be ashamed of liking thing, and thing be ashamed of having people like it?
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Jul 19, 2017 03:34
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Mike the TV posted:Wait, is it wrong now to think that a franchise should be happy... hell, delighted to have fans that have invested years or decades to them? Should all fans be ashamed of liking thing, and thing be ashamed of having people like it? As a wrestling fan I became aware a long time ago that the fans are the people the show-runners least worry about. They are the core audience who are going to watch and complain, but they are going to watch. Or at least that's what they believe. You don't cater to the die hard's, there aren't enough of them and you already have them. That said, gently caress up enough and the die hard's are all you'll have left. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 03:37
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JJTrek should have destroyed the Klingons instead of the Romulans/Vulcans so they could have vanished and not been dealt with again. The Klingons after TOS are the most overused race. Furthermore, I couldn't care less about changing the design except that it looks like garbage.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:46
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Mike the TV posted:Wait, is it wrong now to think that a franchise should be happy... hell, delighted to have fans that have invested years or decades to them? Should all fans be ashamed of liking thing, and thing be ashamed of having people like it? Discovery could surprise me, at this point - but by setting the expectations low, we're more likely to be pleasantly surprised!
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Jul 19, 2017 03:59
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Nessus posted:Liking things isn't trendy any more, for better or worse. 2017: the Year of the Trump/Trek Effect
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Jul 19, 2017 04:13
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MisterBibs posted:Nah, this was a gift from someone else, a long time ago. I don't even know where the original parts of it came from, and wish I did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194&t=81s
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Jul 19, 2017 04:21
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MisterBibs posted:This is exactly the sort of dross that age should teach you realize isn't important.  : "I who am posting in a Star Trek thread, am here to tell you that your hobby of how you enjoy this entertainment is wrong and silly. You should not care so much about it, and enjoy more cultured, adult pursuits." Just a question--is caring about continuity and history as childish as stuff like going to cons, cosplaying, collecting merch and figures? Or are those forms of fandom more mature and acceptable?
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Jul 19, 2017 12:45
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The Klingons appear in almost every single Star Trek movie. The Romulans got no love and the Cardassians never showed up in them at all.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:16
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remusclaw posted:As a wrestling fan I became aware a long time ago that the fans are the people the show-runners least worry about. They are the core audience who are going to watch and complain, but they are going to watch. Or at least that's what they believe. You don't cater to the die hard's, there aren't enough of them and you already have them. Yes this is pretty spot on. If Discovery is a success, it will be because of non-Star Trek fans watching it. Hardcore fans don't matter at all, since they are guaranteed to watch no matter how awful it is. Any time spent trying to appeal to them is wasted time, from a financial point of view. Astroman posted:Just a question--is caring about continuity and history as childish as stuff like going to cons, cosplaying, collecting merch and figures? Or are those forms of fandom more mature and acceptable? Sorry none of those things are acceptable.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:33
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Oh good, DnD is here to tell us all about reasonable engagement.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:36
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After much thought, here's my evaluation of the new Klingon designs: meh
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Jul 19, 2017 13:55
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No particular feelings about Discovery Klingon redesign except that they look sort of what I'd have imagined a 21st century reboot version of the Gorn to look like.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:08
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Astroman posted:
Don't engage MisterBibs
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Jul 19, 2017 14:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:The Klingons appear in almost every single Star Trek movie. The Romulans got no love and the Cardassians never showed up in them at all.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:22
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Sir Lemming posted:After much thought, here's my evaluation of the new Klingon designs: All I know is my gut says maybe. Also the Cardassians are great as a fictional race because they seemed like they had a multifaceted culture and couldn't be boiled down to one adjective. I liked how, like a real culture, someone from it could be assimilated into American/"Federation" culture but still retain various inclinations from Cardassian culture while still having their own personality. Props to Alaimo and Robinson for bringing so much to their characters. Ironically, the only other culture I feel also achieved this was the Ferengi, who at first blush appear to be a one-note race (and had been in TNG.)
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Jul 19, 2017 14:23
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Xibanya posted:All I know is my gut says maybe. Both were because DS9 didn't move on to a new planet every week. It's one of the better things about the show. Without them Cardassians would have been like four episodes of bad guys and Ferengi would have been 
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Jul 19, 2017 14:28
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8one6 posted:Both were because DS9 didn't move on to a new planet every week. It's one of the better things about the show. Without them Cardassians would have been like four episodes of bad guys and Ferengi would have been I really don't understand why TNG tried to make the Ferengi into belligerent enemies because the DS9 commerce merchant take seems so much more obvious. It also gives you much better story opportunities for culture clash with the money-free utopian Federation.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:41
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I really don't understand why TNG tried to make the Ferengi into belligerent enemies because the DS9 commerce merchant take seems so much more obvious. It also gives you much better story opportunities for culture clash with the money-free utopian Federation.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:59
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I dunno, I think the concept of a militarily aggressive capitalist state is perfectly sound - it was just poorly executed like so many other decent ideas from early-TNG.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:04
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marktheando posted:Yes this is pretty spot on. If Discovery is a success, it will be because of non-Star Trek fans watching it. Hardcore fans don't matter at all, since they are guaranteed to watch no matter how awful it is. Any time spent trying to appeal to them is wasted time, from a financial point of view. Maybe in past, but right now it seems like they'll struggle to even pull the core fans to CBS All AccessTM
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Jul 19, 2017 16:07
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I dunno, I think the concept of a militarily aggressive capitalist state is perfectly sound - it was just poorly executed like so many other decent ideas from early-TNG. The problem wasn't the idea, it was that they came across as utterly ridiculous. The idea of the Federation running into what was essentially humanity pre-Space Enlightenment has potential. I always wonder what would've happened had they kept more to the original idea of the Dominion being an anti-Federation, before they decided to emphasize the Founder/Vorta/Jem'Hadar and push the other Dominion subjects like the Karemma aside. Cardassians are the best. The TVtropes joke of their racial trait is being magnificent bastards is about the only thing I remember from that site.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:14
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MikeJF posted:Maybe in past, but right now it seems like they'll struggle to even pull the core fans to CBS All AccessTM Yeah, unfortunately for Trek it already sloughed off most of it's casual fanbase years ago and I don't know how much the relative success of JJ Trek did to replace them. I mean, people went to see those movies, but seeing a film every few years is just a couple hours out of your day, once. A TV show, much less one that requires you to buy it, is much more demanding of your time and weirdly enough to your money as well. How much is HBO go? Because CBS ALL Access is not worth what HBO GO is. One show will not change that. Discovery may reveal the floor when it comes to hardcore fan numbers, no matter how good it is.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:16
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Honestly I don't get why they wouldn't just throw it up on Hulu or Netflix. Star Trek is generally not mass market enough to pull for something like that on it's own. I kinda hope if it's good the Netflix part of the budget it gets it to Netflix for any second season rather than languishing forever on CBS All Access.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:18
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Even then, they're kinda anti-Federation, or perhaps Earth in particular, in that two of the prominent Dominion races are fully genetically engineered, and there's some books implying the Founders may have engineered themselves into their Changeling form too; compared to how scared humanity is of 'augments' (which is outlined particularly in DS9, if not very well) because they tend to turn out as unstable geniuses with major personality issues, and the originals like Khan are basically super-soldiers. Might be an aspect of the Federation society worth exploring; being uncomfortable at best with altering people, let alone custom-making them, because their society is based on opportunity and giving everyone a chance to contribute without needing to compete with each other any more than necessary. (because that attitude nearly destroyed humanity, and Vulcans for that matter)
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Jul 19, 2017 16:23
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Gorelab posted:Honestly I don't get why they wouldn't just throw it up on Hulu or Netflix. Star Trek is generally not mass market enough to pull for something like that on it's own. I kinda hope if it's good the Netflix part of the budget it gets it to Netflix for any second season rather than languishing forever on CBS All Access. Because they desperately want to play with the big boys, probably. On-demand TV is still in the Wild West stage and networks still can't get their head around how viewers won't just watch any old poo poo they put on whenever they please and like it. Let alone with how cable TV has one of the most user-hostile business models since comic books.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:25
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They are, but they didn't go far with it. They were originally thinking about Dominion ships having big multi-species crews like Federation ones and all that.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:25
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