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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Willie Tomg posted:Are you endorsing explicitly race-based policies then? Or are you being clumsy about the specific branding "colorblind" and don't really disagree on the merits? You're presenting pre-chewed ideological bubblegum and being weirdly cagey about what you actually think. Yes, reparations have always been about spending money on programs that specifically target black folks, black communities, and black problems. It's never been explicit race-based payments, that's historically been a racist misrepresentation. I didn't realize I was being cagey. If you don't know the problems with telling a black people "we'll fix race by fixing class" I don't know what to tell you. It's an old argument, usually presented by white people, that ignores the history of colorblind policy.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:02
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Jaxyon posted:http://www.theroot.com/bernie-sanders-black-women-problem-1796995081 Hasn't the root constantly attaked Bernie as being some sort of extreme closet racist?
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Jul 19, 2017 21:02
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Crowsbeak posted:Hasn't the root constantly attaked Bernie as being some sort of extreme closet racist? No, they've said he's got problems with getting black votes and then white BernieBros get really upset about people badmouthing Bernie.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:04
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Jaxyon posted:No, they've said he's got problems with getting black votes and then white BernieBros get really upset about people badmouthing Bernie. Hey why are they asking why HRC couldn't get more poc women out to vote for her. If Bernie has some "problem".
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Jul 19, 2017 21:06
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Jaxyon posted:I didn't realize I was being cagey. If you don't know the problems with telling a black people "we'll fix race by fixing class" I don't know what to tell you. It's an old argument, usually presented by white people, that ignores the history of colorblind policy. This is kind of a weird thing to say because AFAIK people who are left enough to actually want to fix class have literally never been in positions that would allow them to make policy on a national scale in the US.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:14
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Once again the old argument used by self serving white people sophists that "our POC allies are special snowflakes who don't want more money. They are actually in favor of tax cuts for the rich, just trust us, we are the not racists" Also don't need to eat, or work, or live in houses as long as they are assured of our unending moral support and prayers
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Jul 19, 2017 21:20
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Jaxyon posted:Yes, reparations have always been about spending money on programs that specifically target black folks, black communities, and black problems. It's never been explicit race-based payments, that's historically been a racist misrepresentation. My organization mostly concerns overwhelmingly Latino demographics in Texas, though also AA communities as well, and there is no way we as a nation can talk about this kind of support without also talking about it for Latino communities. Which we should do by the way. Which then begs the question why there, and not in other demographics too, because what the hell are we actually doing here? This is why maybe "colorblind" is a lovely way to say it, but that rules-lawyering a policy--a fine Texas tradition in the legislature as the thread residents will be all to happy to talk with you about--to meaningfully and specifically address the issues of racial justice in a way that avoids the kind of stereotype reparations are not will necessarily be done using the prophylactic language of economic justice. There is a middle ground here where we can converse and meaningfully aim at all of these targets, and clickbait generators like The Root and its siblings obfuscate that middle ground for profit (it sure got my click). And the Clintons didn't support any of this poo poo anyway, so what the gently caress friend?
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Jul 19, 2017 21:29
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Willie Tomg posted:And the Clintons didn't support any of this poo poo anyway, so what the gently caress friend? If you're going to try and get elected as a Democrat, you need to get black folks, especially women, on board. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand. I actually voted for Bernie in the primary but I acknowledge the dude had trouble getting votes in the black community.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:35
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Okay now here's the part where you're being cagey: what would you have him do e; in your defense--because i think we agree on most stuff tbqh--the article is also cagey about specifics or any kind of rhetorical anchor, which does forgive a bit of difficulty in advocating its merit Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 21:37
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Willie Tomg posted:Okay now here's the part where you're being cagey: what would you have him do From article: quote:If he wants to take over the party, he’ll have to earn the respect of Clintonites and make them believe that they would be active beneficiaries of his presidency. Sounds like a good start to me.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:42
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Jaxyon posted:If you're going to try and get elected as a Democrat, you need to get black folks, especially women, on board. Hm, check out Bernie gavorability with black voters ans women before you start lecturing people. Hint: It's superior to Clinton's. I don't know how Sanders has down less to support black communities, in the south or elsewhere, than the candidate who literally makes money from mass incarceration of as many black people as possible, from companies who fight against providing them with insurance, who believes in all lives matter, etc. etc. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 21:43
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Personally, I'd talk to people about their community instead of doing the "we'll fix it for everyone which also will eventually help you". Trump has managed to convince all sorts of middle class suburbanites he's going to get white people jobs by name-dropping a dead industry none of them ever even worked in. Whether or not Clinton actually was ever going to do reparations, she at least talked to her audience and tried to connect with them.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:44
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steinrokkan posted:Hm, check out Bernie gavorability with black voters ans women before you start lecturing people. Hint: It's superior to Clinton's. Clinton won black folks by over 50 percentage points in the primaries. Literally like 75-25. quote:I don't know how Sanders has down less to support black communities, in the south or elsewhere, than the candidate who literally makes money from mass incarceration of as many black people as possible, from companies who fight against providing them with insurance, who believes in all lives matter, etc. etc. Because his angry old white man shtick doesn't play the same to people who aren't white? Are you new to the idea that voters don't necessarily vote in a perfectly rational manner?
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Jul 19, 2017 21:46
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Jaxyon posted:From article: So winning black voters just happens to coincide with winning rich voters. Cool.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:47
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Jaxyon posted:From article: "get in the trenches and win the black vote" isn't a plan, its a goal. Right now the plan is internally consistent statements of economic justice until America gets sick of everyone else's bullshit but demsoc bullshit and its slowly sorta working kinda in some surprising places you wouldn't otherwise think have ideological give. We're in agreement more could be done overall. What would you have him do.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:48
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Jaxyon posted:Personally, I'd talk to people about their community instead of doing the "we'll fix it for everyone which also will eventually help you". Once again, his approval among African Americans is 73% http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329404-poll-bernie-sanders-countrys-most-popular-active-politician Your talking points were invented by pundits in the bag with Clinton in 2015 when his campaign was still a novelty, and have no bearing on reality.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:49
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Replacing with means testing with paper bag test is a great idea. Lets distribute it through local party machines and churches too.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:51
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Jaxyon posted:Clinton won black folks by over 50 percentage points in the primaries. Literally like 75-25. There has been a substantial shift in politics since the primaries. Surprisingly something may have happened in between then and now to change people's opinion of the two politicians. Numbers just do not support your assertions - the longer the public has been exposed to news about Sanders and progressive politics, the greater his approval ratings have been, and dusproportionately so among minority voters. He lost the primary vote because he was portrayed consistently prior to then as a loony idiot candidate wasting everybody's time.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:52
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steinrokkan posted:Once again, his approval among African Americans is 73% A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality. He may do better now given Trump, and we'll see if they run him, which they shouldn't. He should vocally support whomever does run.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqLfvQfuvsA Love too connect with my audiences.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:53
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Sneakster posted:Replacing with means testing with paper bag test is a great idea. Lets distribute it through local party machines and churches too. LOL literally arguing against reparations in the "democrats are a waste" thread, likening them to a paper bag test. Holy LOL
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Jul 19, 2017 21:54
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Meanwhile even the traditional supporters of Democrats among minority communities are now polling that Democrats don't care about their issues, that they are only interested in making GBS threads on Trump with no plan to help.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:55
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Jaxyon posted:A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality. Which republican do you think is going to get Clinton figures among black people.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:55
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Jaxyon posted:A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:59
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Jaxyon posted:A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality. How stupid can a man be. He didn't do "well" as a fringe candidate with no media coverage against the slay queen dread abuela everybody just KNEW would be the inevitable successor to Obama? He did remarkably well, and did even better once people got more relaxed about giving him and Clinton a fair shake. According to your theory , Reagan proved his complete lack of political viability after losing the primaries to Ford, a man remembered by history at best as a simpleton.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:00
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Jaxyon posted:A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality. This isn't a year ago, ya dingus.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:00
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Jaxyon posted:He may do better now given Trump, and we'll see if they run him, which they shouldn't. He should vocally support whomever does run. Ah, they should run somebody who understands black concerns, like supporting private prisons or powerful insurance companies or unimpeachable cops. And progressives should just get in line and support such amazing policies. Also lol, what does it tell you about Clinton that "given Trump" she still ranks below Trump in popularity, yet Bernie soars. She was a mistake, and the country is now finally free to realize that. Also bad dems can't even get no board with universal healthcare, but they are TOTALLY in favor of nebulous reparations, they are also just on the cusp of enacting maoism - third worldism, you just can't see it through your bougie lenses. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 22:02
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https://twitter.com/isikbreen/status/887766095674912769 https://twitter.com/isikbreen/status/887773775634333696 https://twitter.com/isikbreen/status/887778650971680771 Check out this freakin Bernie Bro who works for Keith Ellison posting polls which describe the support Sanders has earned among non-white voters.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:09
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I love how even the article writer had to preface his article with a "I don't hate Bernie" because people will literally not shut up about him if you criticize him in the slightest.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:12
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Jaxyon posted:I love how even the article writer had to preface his article with a "I don't hate Bernie" because people will literally not shut up about him if you criticize him in the slightest. good
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Jul 19, 2017 22:15
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Jaxyon posted:LOL literally arguing against reparations in the "democrats are a waste" thread, likening them to a paper bag test. For example: at the local DSS they have a "professional attire service" which was just a man recycling literally soiled trash out his tax shelter church that he's certainly getting a check from the local government for. That's what reparations is going to look like. Bribes to local government and sleazy ways to pay off morally bankrupt middle class members of the local machine. Thats why anything but robust federally funded programs are staffed by bureaucrats who see the poor who use their programs as human filth and are ecstatic to kick them off. Reparations while in many ways morally right as an idea, are in practice going to be the minority version of the poo poo white conmen use as an excuse to wreck public services. A vaguely defined entrepreneur friendly system for the right groups, and god knows how black is black enough, we going by one drop rule for these? What about like hot half-black Puerto Ricans? Jaxyon posted:A favorability poll doesn't mean he's going to do well against a specific candidate. He didn't vs Hillary, and that's reality. Sanders has a problem with OLD people, and hacks.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:19
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Sneakster posted:Eschewing establishing functional safety nets and a robust welfare system, while advocating for ethnocentric aid programs in a country thats behind the first world in many metrics at present with an increasingly vocal nihilistic ethnic nationalist movement is a horrifyingly stupid idea that could only be explained by incredible cynicism or brain damage. Perhaps both. A country not willing to help the poor in general is not going to bother to help the poor at the bottom of the caste system. You're talking a recipe for loving grift for local conmen, not anything helping people at large. Where did I say that I eschew establishing a social safety net? Is this baby's fist reparations discussion? quote:Reparations while in many ways morally right as an idea, are in practice going to be the minority version of the poo poo white conmen use as an excuse to wreck public services. A vaguely defined entrepreneur friendly system for the right groups, and god knows how black is black enough, we going by one drop rule for these? What about like hot half-black Puerto Ricans? Oh, it is. quote:Hillary had reputations and favors from the entire national party and universal name recognition. Sanders was still breaking basically even with younger black people even being an obscure Jewish guy. He lost the primaries to Hillary by a massive amount among black voters. His favorability between elections doesn't necessarily change that. He's also a bad choice to run in 2020 because he'll be hella old, he should simply back whomever is the best candidate at that time, like I've said.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:23
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Jaxyon posted:I love how even the article writer had to preface his article with a "I don't hate Bernie" because people will literally not shut up about him if you criticize him in the slightest. It's almost like people like you continually smear him as being some economic white supremacist and attempt to paint his fan base as exclusively 18-35 white males. That smear is especially hilarious coming from people trying to argue that Hillary "Black kids are superpredators — no conscience, no empathy" Clinton is better.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:24
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Jaxyon posted:He's also a bad choice to run in 2020 because he'll be hella old This is an argument for the voters to decide, if he polls well enough despite being old, I don't see the problem. He's going to make sure he picks a good VP, he's not an idiot.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:25
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Jaxyon posted:I love how even the article writer had to preface his article with a "I don't hate Bernie" because people will literally not shut up about him if you criticize him in the slightest. Because he followed that clause with baseless crap. For a third time Willie Tomg posted:"get in the trenches and win the black vote" isn't a plan, its a goal. Right now the plan is internally consistent statements of economic justice until America gets sick of everyone else's bullshit but demsoc bullshit and its slowly sorta working kinda in some surprising places you wouldn't otherwise think have ideological give. We're in agreement more could be done overall. What would you have him do. Why are you so hesitant to talk about your ideas?
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Jul 19, 2017 22:25
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Americans need to focus less on race and more on equality.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:26
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Call Me Charlie posted:It's almost like people like you continually smear him as being some economic white supremacist and attempt to paint his fan base as exclusively 18-35 white males. That smear is especially hilarious coming from people trying to argue that Hillary "Black kids are superpredators — no conscience, no empathy" Clinton is better. "People like me" tell me more about people like me. I mean the only way I could disagree with Bernie would be to be calling him a white supremacist and loving the hell out of Hillary right?
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Jul 19, 2017 22:26
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Willie Tomg posted:Because he followed that clause with baseless crap. For a third time I'm not. I've answered this. What would you like to know? Do you think I'm a closet blue dog trolling the thread?
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Jul 19, 2017 22:27
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Bernie Sanders lost the primary before it began when the DNC put their Debbie Wasserman Thumb on the scale.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:27
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spacejung posted:Bernie Sanders lost the primary before it began when the DNC put their Debbie Wasserman Thumb on the scale. Bernie was never going to win that primary. Even he was surprised by how well he did. That was the never the goal of him running. No poo poo the DNC leadership hated him, but that doesn't change the fact he wasn't going to win it.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:30
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