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Grand Fromage posted:If we don't count Worf we have Klingons in 1, 3, 5, 6, 7? And the Klingons in TMP are minor. That's fewer movies than I thought actually. Klingons appear in all of the TOS movies except for the Wrath of Khan. And even then, the whole Kobiyashi Maru scenario was about a Klingon attack even though they don't actually appear in the film. The same applies to Star Trek '09, where Klingon ships are briefly seen in the Kobiyashi Maru simulation but no actual klingons appear. So if you count Worf (and he is a Klingon after all), the only Star Trek movies where no Klingons are onscreen are the Wrath of Khan, Star Trek '09 and Star Trek Beyond.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:20
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Tunicate posted:Klingons are really big on their ancestors. Piclingon obviously scours ancient battlefields and forgotten cities for artifacts belonging to his honorable forefathers It would just be that scene where he goes nuts for the Kurlan naiskos over and over again with different kinds of bat'leth.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:22
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Xibanya posted:I suppose the litmus test for a fictional culture (that I made up just now!) is that a member of that culture should be able to have pretty much any set of personality traits and be both different from other members of their culture who don't have those personality traits and different from members of another culture that have the same personality traits. This is a good post. The Klingons suck because they are radically undefined beyond the surface level. Worf isn't even a particularly good example of Klingon-ness, being the dour stick-in-the-mud he is, but drat do they spend a lot of time exploring that surface level.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:22
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I really liked the Klingon public defender in Enterprise. The klingon lawyer in DS9 was good too, I think we saw a scientist as well. Basically to properly develop an alien culture you need to see a wider cross section than their space military and political leaders all the time. Oh also Klingon Chef!!
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Jul 19, 2017 21:42
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Baronjutter posted:The klingon lawyer in DS9 was good too, I think we saw a scientist as well. Basically to properly develop an alien culture you need to see a wider cross section than their space military and political leaders all the time. This is why the Federation is still such an enigma. Aside from the smugglers and the anti government folk on the fringes, our look a civilian life has been limited to a restaurant owner and family that works a vinyard. And from what I remember, does it in period clothes and by hand.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:52
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VanSandman posted:This is a good post. The Klingons suck because they are radically undefined beyond the surface level. Worf isn't even a particularly good example of Klingon-ness, being the dour stick-in-the-mud he is, but drat do they spend a lot of time exploring that surface level. Not to mention Worf was raised by humans (Russians, I think?) and then got super into Klingon culture as a teen, so he's sort of overcompensating to make up for insecurities related to his identity. It's a drat interesting character, but not one representative of the standard Klingon.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:12
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Klingon Picard would be a career warrior who has sacrificed his relationship with his House for military service. He is unusually reserved and dour for a Klingon warrior, but his subordinates know him as a rock of Imperial principle and his enemies know to be wary of his carefully-laid plans. Klingon Picard likes to give growling speeches, but those who know him well fear his silences more. Klingon Picard has survived all the shifting politics of the Empire without attaching himself to any particular faction, and is considered a predictable loyalist by those in power. When House Martok deposed House Gowron, Klingon Picard was finally rewarded with promotion after being stalled at squadron commander for many years. Klingon Archer died in a drunken brawl with a Vulcan after his father was deposed.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:42
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Xibanya posted:Not to mention Worf was raised by humans (Russians, I think?) and then got super into Klingon culture as a teen, so he's sort of overcompensating to make up for insecurities related to his identity. It's a drat interesting character, but not one representative of the standard Klingon. Worf is a standard Klingon the way Chekov was a standard Russian. Or even more so, if you tried to become culturally Russian by watching Chekov and like Boris and Natasha and poo poo
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Jul 19, 2017 22:44
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That's pretty drat good but, wouldn't his house approve of all of that? I don't see how if he maintained the house's honor why they'd mind him being away all the time.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:45
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remusclaw posted:This is why the Federation is still such an enigma. Aside from the smugglers and the anti government folk on the fringes, our look a civilian life has been limited to a restaurant owner and family that works a vinyard. And from what I remember, does it in period clothes and by hand. TNG's writers (and Star Trek's writers in general) just really had no interest in exploring what the world was like outside of the very narrow slice that the shows were actually about. That was fine most of the time, but every now and then an episode comes along that really highlights just how weird it was that none of this stuff was ever explored. I also think it's one of the things that dates the shows quite a bit, since that bare minimum level of world building is pretty much taken for granted in TV nowadays. It's inconceivable now that you could have a sci-fi show run for even a quarter as long as TNG did and not address things like the political and economic backdrop, even if just in passing. I've probably just got this stuck in my head because it was mentioned in the Greatest Gen episode about "Interface," but I think this quote from Ron Moore is actually pretty telling: quote:I think it was a point where we were in the room and we were talking about bringing Geordi's mother in, and we all kind of looked at each other and we were like, 'This is sad. This is the best we can do? Is this the best we can do, is Geordi's mother?' It was such a "who cares" idea that we were just sort of, 'Oh man... This show has got to end'. The idea that you can only do episodes about a character's backstory or their family if you're completely out of other ideas is loving bonkers. The fact that the writers could only think to write a story about Geordi's family in the context of crazy gas giant aliens is even more hosed up. TNG was past its expiration date at this point, but RDM is miles off on his reasoning for why.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:17
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I dunno, I think the concept of a militarily aggressive capitalist state is perfectly sound - it was just poorly executed like so many other decent ideas from early-TNG. They were also supposed to be physically scary despite being small because they moved really fast like snakes, and you can almost see echoes of that in the makeup design except it turned into "borderline Jew caricature" instead of "cobra hood head/ears".
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Jul 20, 2017 00:09
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Roadie posted:They were also supposed to be physically scary despite being small because they moved really fast like snakes... The superfast poo poo probably wouldnt have stood up to their budget. Lord knows Data did it sparingly enough. Paradoxish posted:That was fine most of the time, but every now and then an episode comes along that really highlights just how weird it was that none of this stuff was ever explored. Im not sure he was decrying the use of family members for stories, but maybe they realized it was ground they had tread on with Data or Worf or any other character. Or maybe the limitations of the characters as in their current roles were becoming too constraining, requiring more externalities. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 00:18
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Roadie posted:They were also supposed to be physically scary despite being small because they moved really fast like snakes, and you can almost see echoes of that in the makeup design except it turned into "borderline Jew caricature" instead of "cobra hood head/ears". There were some other things in the original Ferengi concept... "They also have prodigious sexual appetites and it is said their genitals are of a shape and dimension that Earth women have found as enjoyable as their sexual techniques." -Gene Roddenberry, 1987  
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Jul 20, 2017 00:29
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Powered Descent posted:There were some other things in the original Ferengi concept... 
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Jul 20, 2017 00:32
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Powered Descent posted:There were some other things in the original Ferengi concept... For such a sterile place like Star Trek, Gene "Let me tell you about Andorran love-making" Roddenberry sure thought about it a lot
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Jul 20, 2017 00:53
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Nullsmack posted:over under on Destiny having a saucer separation based on that ring? 47. That's not how over-under works.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:31
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I'm more worried about the fact that the costumes and makeup for the klingons look like they're stupidly awkward. Too much of their face has stiff looking prosthetics, and the costumes don't seem to have much range of motion. So you're going to be in a situation where they basically have no nuance in how an actor can play them. Everything will have to be played super broad to emote, but the costume isn't going to let them do big movements. So I'm worried that they're going to end up being growly but generally flat. It's also kind of ruins the hope I had that this would be colourful and have some whimsical bits to it. It was why I was originally interested when Fuller was going to be in charge. Those costumes won't sell dramatically unless the characters are intense. The shooting style of the trailer implies a certain intensity to it as well, but I don't really trust trailers. I don't think I'm all that interested in watching an intense, serious space opera at the moment. Even if it's good. Won't know until it's broadcast, though!
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Jul 20, 2017 01:46
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What is Pakled Picard like?
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Jul 20, 2017 02:15
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I am smart, I dig up old pots.
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Jul 20, 2017 02:18
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What is Borg Picard like? ... too soon?
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Jul 20, 2017 02:19
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More like Borecutus!
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Jul 20, 2017 02:28
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FilthyImp posted:Geordie was always emblematic, for me, of some of the inconsistencies. Guy is blind from birth, but they cant develop a way to treat him without a painful visor system? We can rebuild an alien spine but sorry about the migraines Toby. Like maybe he was the edgiest of edge cases but drat. Didn't they say that by the time the show was on they could've grown him full-on eyes, he just didn't want them and was happy to suffer migraines instead?
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Jul 20, 2017 02:48
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Crusher offered to give him painkillers or stab him in the brain so he felt the pain less, but I don't recall what the lead up to those options was.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:02
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I think Geordie said he wanted to keep on being able to use his visor, so he didn't want his eyes replaced.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:13
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I think Geordie said he wanted to keep on being able to use his visor, so he didn't want his eyes replaced. Fuckin  Deaf Culture poo poo mang.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:41
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Brawnfire posted:Maybe Vulcans had those foreheads too but after Sarek they chilled out and they lost the frown-marks. Frowning, on the other hand, is seen as a mark of beauty and prestige on Romulus, so the foreheads develop apace. Tbh it fits with what we know of early Vulcan culture that they would have been hugely racist, so the two groups that became Vulcans and Romulans likely originated on different parts of the planet and didn't intermingle much.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:48
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A bit like how they reconciled the original Trill appearance with the DS9 one by simply saying they're different ethnic groups of the same species.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:53
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Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 9 "Defiant" This one was... kinda bad? It suffered from the same thing a lot of these did, namely, it had good parts but it really should've been a 2-parter. Everything is so abrupt; it felt like the later seasons of Once Upon a Time where it's just one event after another, lickety-split with not much in the way of segue... or buildup or cooldown. Just perfunctory plot points, wham-bam thank-you-ma'am and then end credits.
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Jul 20, 2017 03:56
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I think Geordie said he wanted to keep on being able to use his visor, so he didn't want his eyes replaced. How else would he keep up with a robot and a psychic at poker night?
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Jul 20, 2017 04:09
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Orv posted:Crusher offered to give him painkillers or stab him in the brain so he felt the pain less, but I don't recall what the lead up to those options was.  The only reason you went blind in the first place is because of all your 'holodeck time'. If you just cut down a b- NEVER!
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Jul 20, 2017 04:14
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I want to see how the 24th century plays out in the Kelvin Timeline. Like Picard having a full head of hair, Ezri Dax is a captain with her own starship and Janeway doesn't exist because her ancestor dies on the Kelvin. Just go nuts is what I'm saying.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:28
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 9 "Defiant" Defiant is one of those episodes I like purely for the "moments" rather than the whole thing. The sideburns reveal, of course, but any time Dukat and Sisko get to interact is usually gold and Defiant gives them time to not only hate each other but also talk about family and other things like that. hiddenriverninja posted:I want to see how the 24th century plays out in the Kelvin Timeline. Like Picard having a full head of hair, Ezri Dax is a captain with her own starship and Janeway doesn't exist because her ancestor dies on the Kelvin. Just go nuts is what I'm saying. Ezri is the captain of the Defiant I think in the Star Trek novels.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:33
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Watching Deja Q. Sounds like the premise is Majora's Mask.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:14
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I can't think of many things less interesting than continuing to follow the Kelvin timeline. Maybe the Continuing Adventures of Desk Admiral Janeway.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:17
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 THERE HE IS lol
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Jul 20, 2017 05:17
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lol
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Jul 20, 2017 05:18
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Red Alert 
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Jul 20, 2017 05:18
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Jeb! Repetition posted:
I fuckin love John DeLancie  He made the Borg FMV game fun.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:18
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Can't wait to see Q at a point in the show where they actually know what they're doing.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:19
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McSpanky posted:Red Alert 
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Jul 20, 2017 05:20
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