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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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NewForumSoftware posted:at least he didn't vote for a slaveowner Trump is not a slaveowner? I'm sure his companies have used plenty of slaves by your definition.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:33
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yronic heroism posted:Well, they gave a solid example of him not being able to answer a question about race except on class grounds. He wouldn't have needed to change any part of his platform even to speak to the lady's concern. That was a year and a half ago. His answer to that question has improved quite a bit since then; it's a little odd that the article seems to think that nothing has been learned from the 2016 primaries.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:38
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yronic heroism posted:This is like a babby's first race discussion if any discussion about whether a candidate (any candidate) is speaking enough to the concerns of minority voters devolves into "are you calling candidate X (or his supporters) a RACIST?! The worst thing you can call someone in America?!!" Hmm, yes, that is just what the article is doing quote:
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Jul 19, 2017 23:41
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Oh no the Root snarked on Bernie.  fetch me my fainting couch.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:44
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yronic heroism posted:Trump is not a slaveowner? I'm sure his companies have used plenty of slaves by your definition. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exmbjm/i-confronted-donald-trump-in-dubai That didn't take long.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:44
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yronic heroism posted:Oh no the Root snarked on Bernie. So you're pretty much admitting that the article is indefensible, I take it?
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Jul 19, 2017 23:45
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Willie Tomg posted:"get in the trenches and win the black vote" isn't a plan, its a goal. Right now the plan is internally consistent statements of economic justice until America gets sick of everyone else's bullshit but demsoc bullshit and its slowly sorta working kinda in some surprising places you wouldn't otherwise think have ideological give. We're in agreement more could be done overall. What would you have him do. push barbara lee to run
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Jul 19, 2017 23:46
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Sneakster posted:How about a robust suite of social programs for the affordability of education/healthcare, access to credit, wages, daycare, pre-school, maternity leave, vacation time, private prison, drug and law enforcement reform. Just to step away from the argument for a second: every time I see the thumbnail for this video it makes me think someone just made the worlds worst dating sim. Something about the Tweet Box.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:46
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Sneakster posted:How is that not a vague generality? It's a stylistic issue. His policies are already better, but that deosn't win elections. Raskolnikov38 posted:we've had two mush brained presidents in less than fifty years. i love bernie but we do want to roll the dice on #3 Yep. NewForumSoftware posted:at least he didn't vote for a slaveowner oh wait i can ignore you now and because you'll whine, it's not because hillary had slaves as first lady of Arkansas, she did, it's because you don't get a racial high ground over Clinton by voting for trump .
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Jul 19, 2017 23:46
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Jaxyon posted:It's a stylistic issue. His policies are already better, but that deosn't win elections. I think people in general have sobered up to the meaninglessness of eloquent platitudes. Or maybe not, probably nobody knows, but I'm gonna hazard a guess that really people with basic needs prefer specific ideas on a national level over sweet but empty words aimed at the local level.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:49
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Jaxyon posted:It's a stylistic issue. His policies are already better, but that deosn't win elections.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:51
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Majorian posted:So you're pretty much admitting that the article is indefensible, I take it? Considering he posted a bunch of stuff against Corbyn (while also making the argument that Hillary/the dems actually had a good showing) and yronic heroism posted:amusingly the ills that rudatron diagnoses which represent a certain type of politics advanced by a certain echo chamber of Hilldawg fans pretty much tracks with some of the poo poo itt: don't say anything questioning, or you're concern trolling... pretty much substitute Bernie bro for centrist or whatever and it's the same poo poo the world over. I think it's safe to assume he isn't arguing in good faith.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:51
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Majorian posted:So you're pretty much admitting that the article is indefensible, I take it? No I'm responding to joepinetree... who seems to say that some snarking amid the criticism is "just" like calling Bernie an unreconstructed racist. But hey, it's not like they called him a slaveowner. Though he did endorse and (I assume) vote for someone NFS is happy to say repeatedly, with no new content, owned slaves. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 23:56
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You know people might be unwilling to listen to the root because of its history of attacking Bernie. http://www.theroot.com/tag/bernie-sanders Just look at the recent articles. Their owner must really be desperate to protect their offshore accounts. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 00:02
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Call Me Charlie posted:Considering he posted a bunch of stuff against Corbyn (while also making the argument that Hillary/the dems actually had a good showing) and Where did I ever say Hillary did well? loving prove it. I'll wait. Regardless of whether Corbyn objectively "did well" (however we choose to define it) I'm p sure he supported people turning out for Labour MPs even though plenty of his MPs aren't his fans, instead of rage quitting or voting for loving UKIP. Because he understands coalition politics and is not a literal baby.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:02
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Raskolnikov38 posted:realistically though it probably has to be bernie because theres no one he could pick as a surrogate and not overshadow to a hilarious degree on the campaign If I were Bernie I would stage a self-assassination and then have my last words be "(Surrogate), I leave the future of the country to you..." steinrokkan posted:I think people in general have sobered up to the meaninglessness of eloquent platitudes. Or maybe not, probably nobody knows, but I'm gonna hazard a guess that really people with basic needs prefer specific ideas on a national level over sweet but empty words aimed at the local level. While they're certainly less effective than they used to be, I think that they can still work well with older Americans. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 00:04
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Sneakster posted:Oh, so you meant the opposite of the thing you said. I literally said he was in the election to push hillary left. Hillary was better than trump, on issues, but lost the election. Bernie was better than HIllary, on issues, but lost the primary. Bernie's problem isn't his policy but the way he communicates them to people who aren't white.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:08
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yronic heroism posted:No I'm responding to joepinetree... who seems to say that some snarking amid the criticism is "just" like calling Bernie an unreconstructed racist. Ah, yes, "Bernie is more interested in reaching out to racists than to Black women" is just snark. Love the moving goalposts.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:13
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Jaxyon, have you ever considered that there is a different between POC primary voters and POC general election voters? One group is not nearly as invested in personal party narratives and "It's X's candidate's turn now" Donna Brazile establishment crap.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:16
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Ytlaya posted:If I were Bernie I would stage a self-assassination and then have my last words be "(Surrogate), I leave the future of the country to you..." Jaxyon posted:I literally said he was in the election to push hillary left. Jaxyon posted:Bernie's problem isn't his policy but the way he communicates them to people who aren't white.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:20
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Can we put the myth that People of Color don't relate to Bernie to rest now?: Because it's bullshit.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:41
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I'm sure if Sanders ran in 2020, he'd have applied lessons from 2016 and a lot of the issues we're bringing up with him now might not be a problem (or as much of a problem). I still hope we can get a new face though. No more Clintons. I know it probably sounds immature, but I want someone who doesn't have to jump through hoops and exotic contortions to reconcile all the compromises they have had to make over the years to run for office. Just someone who wants to do a good job.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:41
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Brony Car posted:reconcile all the compromises they have had to make over the years to run for office. Just someone who wants to do a good job. Those weren't "compromises". Selling out the poor to appeal to a diverse coalition of middle class property owners was the aim of the Clinton era DNC. This is why leadership needs to be dismantled.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:49
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yronic heroism posted:https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exmbjm/i-confronted-donald-trump-in-dubai lol at blaming middle eastern migrant labor violations on trump like it or not, Trump is actually better than Clinton re: slavery. this is one of the problems with having slaves, its hard to wash that sort of ink off in 2017
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Jul 20, 2017 00:51
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Ah yes, the "but the slaves were such a good deal, how could I refuse" slaver defense. E: almost as good as "they came with the job of First Lady of Arkansas, so how could I not write glowing reviews and profit from slavers for the rest of my career" VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 01:02
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NFS always ready with the zings about slaves. I will take a wild guess that none of his ancestors were US slaves and he's just loving being an internet white dude edgelord, but if that's the way he's playing it... Pls explain how the Trump organization has not used slave labor. PS: Realistically we all know Trump has personally used sex slaves too because duh. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 01:05
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yronic heroism posted:Pls explain how the Trump organization has not used slave labor. - Hillary 2020 campaign slogan.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:22
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The trump organization is actually run on Slav labor. allegedly
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Jul 20, 2017 01:23
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Willie Tomg posted:IDK about the chechnya thing specifically as it pertains to your local but generally you want to focus and act locally rather than spend time drafting statements that homophobia in a subjugated Russian state is bad. So if you're the guy who's IRL opinions are being swayed by reading possibly leftish unrelated internet posts or clamoring for More Internationalist Stances when you don't even have a meaningful local coalition of groups to speak of, then i dunno man, get used to staying inside and losing things alone. At some point, assuming you do good and not bad, you're gonna have to talk IRL with people you call crazy on the internet and not lose your poo poo. Goondolences. Hey, you don't have PMs so I hope you see this. I just wanted to say thank you. I did go to the meeting and actually had a good time. I didn't agree with everything they said during it but it made me wanna volunteer and work with them more. Thank you  And sorry everyone for the derail. I thought this was the effective Leftism thread.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:27
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BigRed0427 posted:And sorry everyone for the derail. I thought this was the effective Leftism thread. There's a few threads to that effect in C-SPAM. This is basically the "lets point out democrat problems and annoy weird regulars" thread.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:33
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Kokoro Wish posted:Can we put the myth that People of Color don't relate to Bernie to rest now?: To be fair, this chart is a bit misleading because the vast majority of black people are Democrats. So within the context of Democratic voters (or potential Democratic voters), it isn't necessarily true that he has higher support among African Americans than those other demographics (I mean, it might be, but that chart isn't really sufficient to say one way or the other). That being said, the chart is sufficient to show that black people don't really dislike Bernie Sanders.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:46
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When I was volunteering around here for the local dems I never heard any of them (the dems) say that they disliked Bernie or thought he was wrong. They just thought that Hillary was more likely to beat trump since she was a solid contender in the political arena already and Bernie was an outsider.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:49
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Sneakster posted:- Hillary 2020 campaign slogan. "No see it was the good kind of slaves (foreigners)" -2017 internet "leftists"
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Jul 20, 2017 01:53
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I don't think leftists are for slavery... Unless you count slavery of the bouigiouse
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Jul 20, 2017 01:57
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yronic heroism posted:"No see it was the good kind of slaves (foreigners)" Its time to abandon the American labor aristocracy and elect a president in accordance with the values of Maoism Third-Worldism.
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Jul 20, 2017 02:23
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Sneakster posted:Its time to abandon the American labor aristocracy and elect a president in accordance with the values of Maoism Third-Worldism. JDPON or bust
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Jul 20, 2017 02:34
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yronic heroism posted:"No see it was the good kind of slaves (foreigners)" While I don't agree with NSF saying that Clinton is worse on slavery than Trump, you have to recognize that at this point you're arguing that she's not worse than Trump on slavery. I mean, if there's a better example of damning someone with faint praise, I haven't seen it.
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Jul 20, 2017 02:55
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Majorian posted:While I don't agree with NSF saying that Clinton is worse on slavery than Trump, you have to recognize that at this point you're arguing that she's not worse than Trump on slavery. I mean, if there's a better example of damning someone with faint praise, I haven't seen it. in a similar vein, Obama is easily one of our best Presidents ever
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Jul 20, 2017 02:58
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:in a similar vein, Obama is easily one of our best Presidents ever  On the flip side, think of how high the bar is for "worst president."
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Jul 20, 2017 03:03
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Majorian posted:
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Jul 20, 2017 03:13
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