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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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65 | 21.52% |
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VitalSigns posted:
Hey now, it's not the Centrist Democrats fault the voters chose not to vote for the most electable candidate. We just need to do a better job of explaining to them what electable means so the voters remember to vote accordingly.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:07
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Ytlaya posted:See, the problem is you're just assuming by default that both 1. moving to the left will hurt electability and 2. it will hurt it enough - in the places that matter - to actually make a difference in elections in the places that matter. You mean something like "They are, you dipshits are just too busy huffing your own farts to notice"? Because you can't frame this accurately as "Dems are trying for the leftmost thing they can get, Leftists hate compromising with reality, so they decide Dems must be eeeeevil and vow to gently caress them over". In order to maintain the necessary smugness you ultimately crave, you're completely eliminating Republicans from the equation entirely. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:10
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Fulchrum posted:You mean something like "We are, you dipshits are just too busy huffing your own farts to notice"? This would probably be a vast messaging improvement over "single payer will never, ever come to pass"
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Jul 21, 2017 05:12
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Hey now, it's not the Centrist Democrats fault the voters chose not to vote for the most electable candidate. We just need to do a better job of explaining to them what electable means so the voters remember to vote accordingly. Centrist Democrats to the base: "Your opinions matter less than stealing moderate voters from the GOP. Now vote for us! Have you seen
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Jul 21, 2017 05:13
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why the gently caress fulchrum is so pissed at off here since almost every leftward american goon went for hillary exactly because of pragmatic reasons didn't democrats get loving owned like 3 or 4 times pushing the "MORE CENTRIST" candidate since mcgovern anyway
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Jul 21, 2017 05:15
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VitalSigns posted:This would probably be a vast messaging improvement over "single payer will never, ever come to pass" You will never ever get over being talked to like adults and being expected to be able to handle reality, will you?
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Jul 21, 2017 05:15
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Fulchrum posted:You will never ever get over being talked to like adults and being expected to be able to handle reality, will you? "Leftists are mean! Gimme my ball I'm going home. I didn't even wanna appoint that Supreme Court justice anyway!"
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Jul 21, 2017 05:16
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Fulchrum posted:You will never ever get over being talked to like adults and being expected to be able to handle reality, will you? You have a loving broken view of reality if you think "single payer healthcare" is something impossible to pass, look at the rest of the loving world.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:17
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dead comedy forums posted:why the gently caress fulchrum is so pissed at off here since almost every leftward american goon went for hillary exactly because of pragmatic reasons 
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Jul 21, 2017 05:17
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dead comedy forums posted:why the gently caress fulchrum is so pissed at off here since almost every leftward american goon went for hillary exactly because of pragmatic reasons Again, either every leftist voted for Hillary and its not your fault, or thee are huge swathes of leftists out there who didn't vote because they weren't inspired by $15 an hour, fully renewable energy by 2028 and ending the opioid epidemic. Pick one you disingenuous shits.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:17
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spacejung posted:"Liberals are mean! Gimme my ball I'm going home. I didn't even wanna appoint that Supreme Court justice anyway!" There we go, fixed it for you. Hope you guys enjoy Gorsuch's rulings, it was a hard fought battle against the Dems, but you succeeded eventually.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:18
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Fulchrum posted:Again, either every leftist voted for Hillary and its not your fault, or thee are huge swathes of leftists out there who didn't vote because they weren't inspired by $15 an hour, fully renewable energy by 2028 and ending the opioid epidemic. Pick one you disingenuous shits. Moooooom, tell them to give me Cory Booker or I'm voting Trump!!!
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Jul 21, 2017 05:19
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Fulchrum posted:Again, either every leftist voted for Hillary and its not your fault, or thee are huge swathes of leftists out there who didn't vote because they weren't inspired by $15 an hour, fully renewable energy by NEVER and ending the opioid epidemic. Pick one you disingenuous shits. Corrected for Hillary and the DLC's track record to date and their historical actions of the last twenty-five years.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:20
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WampaLord posted:You have a loving broken view of reality if you think "single payer healthcare" is something impossible to pass, look at the rest of the loving world. Which country was it in the rest of the world that made a transition from a privatized health system with a proven lobbying arm that would absolutely trigger a backlash that demolished a single payer system within 2 years, and also had an insane right wing population, a rapidly aging population, and a highly unhealthy population that lives off of high fructose corn syrup? I'm waiting. What is this country that was in the position America is in, not the countries that were in radically different positions when they enacted single payer healthcare? And cue ignoring the loving question and claiming this is "American exceptionalism" or some other pile of poo poo you heard the news use and figured you could use it here. Mister Facetious posted:Corrected for Hillary and the DLC's track record to date and their historical actions of the last twenty-five years. Fake news! Lying Crooked Hillary! Politics is bing bong so simple - that about cover it? And I do like that you just ignored the substance because you have no goddamn way to answer this gaping flaw in your argument for these invisible leftists.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:26
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Fulchrum posted:You will never ever get over being talked to like adults and being expected to be able to handle reality, will you? I voted for Hillary in November. I thought she would win. Then I watched reality assert itself in realtime as triangulating centrist corporatism lost states that hadn't voted Republican since the 80s and it handed the entire government over to morons and ghouls. Time to face reality and consider that when something doesn't work it's time to try something else rather than decide reality must have got it wrong and double down on a losing strategy forever.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:27
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Fulchrum posted:Which country was it in the rest of the world that made a transition from a privatized health system with a proven lobbying arm that would absolutely trigger a backlash that demolished a single payer system within 2 years, and also had an insane right wing population, a rapidly aging population, and a highly unhealthy population that lives off of high fructose corn syrup? Might as well not pass any legislation at all, then! It's  TOO HARD to get anything done here I guess.How did the same country you just described pass Obamacare, then?
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Jul 21, 2017 05:28
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This is what loving slays me. If the Democratic party had been cleaning big at the polls since 2008 with Obama/Clinton brand of promising progress but packing every position with Goldman Sachs alumni and shrugging at stuff like gerrymandering, inequality, war on drugs and so on, I'd at least be able to say "This sucks, but they know what it takes to win and grow the party, I guess." But the party has shriveled frightfully in the last 9 years. Other than Obama's re-election, there's been precious few victories. Congress seats, governorships, you name it, it's all down but campaign contributions. The party has become a bulimic that swallows cash and vomits actual power. So we end at a dumb dichotomy that somehow we can't escape. Either America really wants dumb GOP war, bigotry and inequality, in which case everyone should all just give up and head to Canada, or democrats have to actually start leaning into the stuff they say they care about before they are made completely irrelevant. Say what you will about the GOP, they've never been shy about catering to their base. Dozens of laws to limit access to abortion and welfare, to put the bibles in classroom and so on and so forth. They couldn't give two fucks about beltway journo sensibilities, they knew what their crazy base wanted and they brought it home, as much as they could as often as they could, and those who gagged or felt scruples were tossed aside. And their 'punishment' for such irreponsibility was winning the white house, both houses of congress, and having a 6-3 supreme court majority tantalizingly within reach. It's only their crazy disregard for actual governance that has kept them from achieving even more. gently caress, it was that same insane conservative zeal that prevented Obama from signing away a big chunk of those life-saving programs that liberals care so much about saving, back during the budget struggles. Had Hillary won the WH, it's pretty likely she'd be facing a similar situation, surrendering healthcare and education and welfare to please howling hicks, and being praised as a responsible adult by the Cillizas and Yglesias of the world.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:28
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Fulchrum posted:Which country was it in the rest of the world that made a transition from a privatized health system with a proven lobbying arm that would absolutely trigger a backlash that demolished a single payer system within 2 years, and also had an insane right wing population, a rapidly aging population, and a highly unhealthy population that lives off of high fructose corn syrup? I don't know which country you speak of but I would like to propose a felony and $250,000 fine to anyone who dares criticize it.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:28
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VitalSigns posted:I voted for Hillary in November. I thought she would win. Then I watched reality assert itself in realtime as triangulating centrist corporatism lost states that hadn't voted Republican since the 80s and it handed the entire government over to morons and ghouls. Yes, attacking the dems nonstop and only then casting one reluctant vote at the end is a losing strategy, I would say good to see you've recognized that, but you clearly haven't. WampaLord posted:Might as well not pass any legislation at all, then! It's By suffering a huge backlash that swept nazis into power, as the left sat on their asses and refused to vote in the midterms as they thought that getting anything done is a betrayal. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:28
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Fulchrum posted:Again, either every leftist voted for Hillary and its not your fault, or thee are huge swathes of leftists out there who didn't vote because they weren't inspired by $15 an hour, fully renewable energy by 2028 and ending the opioid epidemic. Pick one you disingenuous shits. I was told on these forums, several times, that Hillary didn't need our filthy Bernie Bro votes to win the election. This messaging wasn't limited to just this forum. I, and other dirtbag leftists, voted for her still and she still lost. LOL.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:30
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Fulchrum posted:By suffering a huge backlash that swept nazis into power, as the left sat on their asses and refused to vote in the midterms as they thought that getting anything done is a betrayal. So your solution is "Don't pass anything even slightly progressive because the GOP will backlash against it?"
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Jul 21, 2017 05:31
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WampaLord posted:So your solution is "Don't pass anything even slightly progressive because the GOP will backlash against it?" My solution is "VOTE YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS LITTLE SHITS!" Since that doesn't seem to work as you value your own egos far above getting anything done ever, the strategy is more about trying to get you to shut the hell up. Mister Fister posted:I was told on these forums, several times, that Hillary didn't need our filthy Bernie Bro votes to win the election. This messaging wasn't limited to just this forum. I, and other dirtbag leftists, voted for her still and she still lost. LOL. You were also told to stop legitimizing right wing attacks on her and repeating them as gospel. Did you do that?
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Jul 21, 2017 05:32
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Fulchrum posted:My solution is "VOTE YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS LITTLE SHITS!" Since that doesn't seem to work as you value your own egos far above getting anything done ever, the strategy is more about trying to get you to shut the hell up. Well at last you finally admit that you're just literally against leftism as a concept, it is the enemy to you. If the GOP weren't racist, you'd be a Republican.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:34
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Fulchrum posted:
Ahh yes, those "Hillary is way too much of a centrist!" right wing attacks against Hillary. All over Drudge and Breitbart they were, concerned about her and her conservative ways, fearing that a new Tatcher would appear on the other side of pond! You are delusional.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:35
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Fulchrum posted:Which country was it in the rest of the world that made a transition from a privatized health system with a proven lobbying arm that would absolutely trigger a backlash that demolished a single payer system within 2 years, and also had an insane right wing population, a rapidly aging population, and a highly unhealthy population that lives off of high fructose corn syrup? Yes, better to stay with the person that beats you, and then promises they will never do it again. They're totally good for their word...  You know, when even the bankers don't believe your bullshit attempts at populism... Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:38
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Serious question. Does polling back up the idea that the left, on a large scale, is to blame for Democrats losing all branches of government? Or are you relying on stuff like "Jill Stein Exists" for this?
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Jul 21, 2017 05:39
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WampaLord posted:Well at last you finally admit that you're just literally against leftism as a concept, it is the enemy to you. I do like how you're admitting that the core component of leftism to you has absolutely nothing to do with politics or helping people, and is solely about smug contrarianism, endless bitching, and maintaining a staggering victim complex. Sephyr posted:Ahh yes, those "Hillary is way too much of a centrist!" right wing attacks against Hillary. All over Drudge and Breitbart they were, concerned about her and her conservative ways, fearing that a new Tatcher would appear on the other side of pond! Those "Hillary is a monster who did Benghazi, lies, steals, and lives only to enrish herself" attacks from Breitbart that were shared on a half hourly basis on this forum during the primaries, yes.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:40
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If you think leftist posting is what lost the election, you need to lay off the internet for a good long while.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:40
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Fulchrum posted:You were also told to stop legitimizing right wing attacks on her and repeating them as gospel. Did you do that? That Hillary is beholden to Wall Street and also Henry Kissenger's understudy is a 'right wing attack'
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Jul 21, 2017 05:42
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Fulchrum posted:politics or helping people Please, tell me some ideas you have about this topic. What do you think we should be doing to help people? 
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Jul 21, 2017 05:42
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Mister Fister posted:That Hillary is beholden to Wall Street and also Henry Kissenger's understudy is a 'right wing attack' Whoa mister watch the class-laden language in here.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:44
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WampaLord posted:Please, tell me some ideas you have about this topic. What do you think we should be doing to help people? Beating Republicans. Its a high level plan, I know. But I think that, given time, you and others in this thread might be able to comprehend it.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:45
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Fulchrum posted:Beating Republicans. And to do that, we need to excite voters by making sure they know we want to consolidate federal data centers https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/883431552843210753
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Jul 21, 2017 05:47
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Fulchrum posted:Beating Republicans. Cool Zucc, Fulchrum. Wanna bring it to the White House?
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Jul 21, 2017 05:48
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Fulchrum posted:Yes, attacking the dems nonstop and only then casting one reluctant vote at the end is a losing strategy, I would say good to see you've recognized that, but you clearly haven't. Unfortunately for liberals, America is a democracy (sorta), and in a democracy political proposals are going to be subject to public debate and public comment. So instead of complaining about it, either pull off a military coup so the Chicago School economists can rule the country by decree and throw socialists out of helicopters, or adopt a political platform that can stand up to scrutiny from the voting public. "People are really unhappy with our record and our platform" should be a huge red flag for people that expect to win democratic elections! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:51
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Fulchrum posted:I do like how you're admitting that the core component of leftism to you has absolutely nothing to do with politics or helping people, and is solely about smug contrarianism, endless bitching, and maintaining a staggering victim complex. And now you are just making things up. NO ONE in D&D ever considered Benghazi anything other than a grotesque GOP shitshow without being laughed out of the thread. Hell, back then liberals and leftists both were impressed at how she handled being grilled of it for hours and hours, and I'm including myself in that. Yes, people brought up Hillary's weak points during the primary. Being cozy with banks, being late to support LGBT rights, and more. What the hell is wrong with that? It was a PRIMARY. That said, once she won, a few people remained pissed over the party's treatment of Bernie but most everyone was pumped for Iron Abuela. Right up until the results started coming in, everyone was expecting a drat blowout. Leftists like Michael Moore were sounding the alarms back in JULY. He still agitated and tried to get out the vote like mad, but you probably think he's a loon for wanting pie-in-the-sky, actual progressive policies to be more than throwaway speech lines. Really, that -you- accuse others of a martyr complex is just rich.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:52
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Mister Fister posted:And to do that, we need to excite voters by making sure they know we want to consolidate federal data centers But apparently thats just crushing leftism.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:52
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Fulchrum posted:No, to do that, we need to somehow figure out a way to stop this constant outpouring of "Democrats hate you, they don't care about you, they're just as bad as Republicans" that some chucklefucks keep putting out, that seems untethered to reality in any way. Like, if we could figure out a way to stop people actively searching for reasons to oppose the Dems and swear to never participate until they're all gone. Like every reactionary in history, you assume that the unrest is being caused by some sinister external force. If people don't think the democrats care about them, a good way to fix that would be to actually get stuff done that helps people rather than rooting out the people who are sowing dissent. Unfortunately you're stuck in this mindset that real change is impossible, or perhaps for you it's even undesirable.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:57
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Fulchrum posted:You will never ever get over being talked to like adults and being expected to be able to handle reality, will you? Funny, the only one acting infantile or like Bordiga here is you.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:57
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Sephyr posted:And now you are just making things up. NO ONE in D&D ever considered Benghazi anything other than a grotesque GOP shitshow without being laughed out of the thread. Hell, back then liberals and leftists both were impressed at how she handled being grilled of it for hours and hours, and I'm including myself in that. Are you seriously joking? In OCTOBER, we had a huge flare up of people attacking Hillary for not being hard enough on coal. Yeah, that thing about how she would put coal miners out of business that the right took out of context? Environmentalists were declaring war on her because that didn't go far enough for them, saying that she was a friend of the coal lobby. We had daily meltdowns of people proudly talking about how they were going to vote for Jill Stein because Hillary didn't deserve their votes. Jizz Festival posted:Like every reactionary in history, you assume that the unrest is being caused by some sinister external force. If people don't think the democrats care about them, a good way to fix that would be to actually get stuff done that helps people rather than rooting out the people who are sowing dissent. Unfortunately you're stuck in this mindset that real change is impossible, or perhaps for you it's even undesirable. Kay. They did. The ACA. Guess the gently caress what? You shitters HATED it with a fiery passion and said it was a betrayal. THAT IS THE ENTIRE loving PROBLEM! Anything that happens that isn't the candy and unicorns solution to any problem is declared to be yet more reasons the dems hate all of America and grovel to their donors. And nothing will ever dislodge that idea from your heads. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:57
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