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Warforged Picard seems like more of a hardass.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:49
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Jeb! Repetition posted:They are absolutely dedicated to making Tasha straight Of course they are. Everyone knows there's no gays in the future
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Jul 21, 2017 07:50
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Oh boy. Geordi says "who knows if we're even dead or alive" then the pregnant closeup on Yar
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Jul 21, 2017 07:50
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Okay maybe I'm crazy but it looks like Tasha has a mustache shadow too. Not as bad as Troi's but it's there. They never did closeups in season 1 so I never noticed it before.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:52
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I understand what's going on now and it's a brilliant setup. And the choice the past crew will have to make.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:53
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Whispering Picard 
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Jul 21, 2017 07:54
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 ShiiiiIIIIIIIIIT
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Jul 21, 2017 07:57
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The visual storytelling with the lighting is fantastic by the way.
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Jul 21, 2017 08:00
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"[Tasha's] was an empty death. A death without purpose" NO loving poo poo
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Jul 21, 2017 08:01
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My eyes are getting wet from the idea of Yar getting a second chance at a good death and saving billions of people
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Jul 21, 2017 08:05
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This is the most exciting fight ever because there's a real chance the Enterprise could lose
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Jul 21, 2017 08:08
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Holy gently caress Picard jumping back to the console and operating it himself
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Jul 21, 2017 08:10
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God the way it flipped back to the correct timeline and the ending with tell me about Tasha Yar, that whole episode was so moving I'm actually crying now, I thought nothing could top Deja Q and I was so wrong
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Jul 21, 2017 08:11
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Holy gently caress Picard jumping back to the console and operating it himself "THAT'LL BE THE DAY!"
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Jul 21, 2017 08:35
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I get chills listening to Picard say "Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise" Yesterday's Enterprise might be my second favorite TNG episode, after Measure of a Man
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Jul 21, 2017 08:51
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Jeb! Repetition posted:God the way it flipped back to the correct timeline and the ending with tell me about Tasha Yar, that whole episode was so moving I'm actually crying now, I thought nothing could top Deja Q and I was so wrong It's a real good episode. Also I'm man enough to admit that DS9 made me tear up a couple of times 
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Jul 21, 2017 14:35
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Bohemian Nights posted:It's a real good episode. Also I'm man enough to admit that DS9 made me tear up a couple of times  I don't know how anyone could watch "The Visitor" and not get a least a little misty eyed.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:04
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Powered Descent posted:They're pretty much the uniforms from the TOS movies, yeah. They're a little simplified, missing a few elements like the undershirt and maybe the belt, but other than that, they're the same. I love that the undershirts were missing because the rare sewing needles for the fancy stitch were impossible to find at the time.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:12
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Random thought on DS9; Sisko's dad seems like a character who barely fits into Star Trek's setting at all, and yet he gets along with the weird space stuff just fine. He even tries Cajun-Ferengi fusion cooking and figures out how Changeling spy tactics would work on his own. Civilian Federation life isn't shown much, though one has to wonder if it's basically like a stress-free version of modern-day life, with people having the freedom of time and opportunity to maintain and develop their own culture, to the point where some people are basically LARPing some ancient tradition of theirs full-time. Speaking of the Siskos, Jake is also an example of a Federation civilian who decides to report on the crazy poo poo that happens around him, which seems like a pretty good idea on Deep Space Nine. Maybe every Enterprise should have an embedded reporter.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:17
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cheetah7071 posted:I get chills listening to Picard say "Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise" Reminds me of Orient at the battle of the Nile. British officers were still writing about the bravery of her crew 50 years after they blew her up.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:26
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Inescapable Duck posted:Random thought on DS9; Sisko's dad seems like a character who barely fits into Star Trek's setting at all, and yet he gets along with the weird space stuff just fine. He even tries Cajun-Ferengi fusion cooking and figures out how Changeling spy tactics would work on his own. Sisko's dad isn't very Star Trek, but he's a great TV dad, and I always wished there had been a little more with him, because he's a great injection of just simple humanity in this giant political space drama.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:41
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Inescapable Duck posted:Civilian Federation life isn't shown much, though one has to wonder if it's basically like a stress-free version of modern-day life, with people having the freedom of time and opportunity to maintain and develop their own culture, to the point where some people are basically LARPing some ancient tradition of theirs full-time. I've ragged on Federation life before but I think it's pretty much this. Since we're stuck in the middle of a capitalist world and we have to work for reasons we don't understand for people who don't care about us to survive and improve our circumstances, we can't properly wrap our heads around what kind of world they live in. So imagine that instead of working every day, you're allowed to do whatever you want. Eventually you'll turn your attention to whatever hobby interests you. You wanna rebuild a muscle car with your dad? Do it. You want to climb mountains with rocket-boots? Do it. You want to run a vineyard by hand to sell to alien tourists? Do it. They probably view our time in a romantic sense the way we tend to view the 17th-19th centuries so imagine every nuance of your life dissected like it had meaning to it and put up on a pedestal. Factor into that the exoticness of alien cultures. With all needs met and no room for ambition eventually you'll get a class of people who just want to make a difference in the wider universe. They'd be extremely talented because that's what they've chosen to focus all their energy on their whole lives. They'd be professional because this is the goal they've been moving toward. It'd be a meritocratic egalitarian force for good without any ulterior self serving motives, because that's what it was built as from the ground up. But in a smaller sense, I imagine every Federation citizen is just on the internet all day having arguments about 24th century anime or whatever Youtube personality is doing at that time.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:41
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vermin posted:But in a smaller sense, I imagine every Federation citizen is just on the internet all day having arguments about 24th century anime or whatever Youtube personality is doing at that time. The holodeck forums are down again! loving radium! 
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Jul 21, 2017 15:43
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Warforged Picard seems like more of a hardass. Notice something about the bridge? One chair, for the captain. No counsellor, no advisers, no committee. Even when they're in the observation deck, Picard is all, "This isn't a discussion, it's a briefing. Here are your orders. Dismissed."
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Jul 21, 2017 16:16
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vermin posted:I've ragged on Federation life before but I think it's pretty much this. Since we're stuck in the middle of a capitalist world and we have to work for reasons we don't understand for people who don't care about us to survive and improve our circumstances, we can't properly wrap our heads around what kind of world they live in. I have really mixed feelings about this view. One of the most consistent themes of TOS was that paradise was not something that humans were meant to experience. That's why there were so many "paradise" planets that turned out not to be so great: in Kirk's words, 'man stagnates if he has no ambition, no desire to be more than he is'. Then TNG, and to a lesser degree, DS9, brought utopianism into the equation, and it just didn't make much sense. There's no money and no reason to work, yet Federation citizens, like Mr. Sisko, continue to happily perform their jobs for no reason other than the fact that "they want to". I don't know; it just seems too rosy and optimistic to me. I think TOS was more realistic in its depiction of human nature than more recent Star Trek shows.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:26
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The crew of the enterprise is constantly working on something, maintaining poo poo, fixing poo poo. I imagine the infrastructure needed to maintain utopia on earth also needs a lot of talented people to run. People competing to become the head engineer for the Perth Fusion Plant, someone fresh out of university excited they got a position helping set up a new child care centre on the moon, a 40 year old guy who's really been into the world of hobby replicators deciding he wants to do his bit and getting a part time position at his city's local industrial replicator facility. There's still tons of jobs, things to do, ambitions and careers. You're just not forced into it like in capitalism, the choice isn't to die in the streets or work a horrible service job to enrich someone else while you have to share a ratty rented house with 6 other people in the same situation. You're still motivated by ambitions, to climb to the top of your field, to solve problems other people have not, or just out of a sense of pride of a job well done that directly benefits the society you feel very much part of.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:42
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:
I can see it. Same with Boothby being the STA groundskeeper. Now, janitor in bumfuck Iowa? We suddenly have a problem unless I am somehow "paid" in holodeck rations or days on Risa or whatever
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Jul 21, 2017 16:44
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I think Boothby is more a "I garden because it's a hobby and also I get to be the old wise dude, which is nice" than a janitor. I think utopia is basically self-cleaning. You can beam away garbage and replicate it into robots that clean even more stuff. Also, all people are now nice enough to not litter.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:46
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The Bloop posted:99% of real (non-chain) restaurants are opened as a labor of love and not primarily as a way to make a living since there is a 99% chance of failure. I think though that there is no bumfuck anywhere on Earth anymore by that point, though the opening of JJ Trek would refute that a generation or so earlier in the timeline. Anyone who is anywhere is there because that is where they want to be.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:52
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The Bloop posted:99% of real (non-chain) restaurants are opened as a labor of love and not primarily as a way to make a living since there is a 99% chance of failure. True, but if there's a 99% chance of failure, what keeps it going without that profit motive? In other words: it can't just be a labor of love that motivates people to open privately-owned restaurants, because they'd all go broke that way. At some point, they have to make money to justify, at least in part, their involvement in the restaurant industry and to earn back what they've invested. One of the reasons I'm not sure TNG society works is that it sometimes seems too easy. There's no money and no requirement to get a job, which sounds great. But where's the personal risk? What's the point of doing anything at all if there's no risk or reward involved? There's the "good feeling of a job well done", but how long would that continue to sustain someone if they got bored? I'm not explaining myself well, but my unpopular opinion is that TOS is more realistic than TNG - at least in that respect.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:58
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I do wonder about the state of Federation society in the 24th Century given how wrapped up in nostalgia they all seem to be. Sure they have state-of-the-art holosuites, but all anyone seems to use them for is historical roleplaying and casual sightseeing. The civilian jobs we see are all self-consciously traditional. Their hobbies and interests mostly revolve around theater, music, art, dance, and sports that are centuries old. Picard and Chakotay are both archaeologists obsessed with ancient things. Paris, Riker, Picard, Odo, and Bashir all go nuts for a weird time displaced version of mid 20th Century nostalgia. Janeway wants to gently caress the 19th Century. Oh, and I refuse to believe that Tap dancing will outlive baseball. It's just kind of sad. Nostalgia has its place, but an overwhelmingly backwards focus is a mark of a deeply conservative or even moribund society where people feel like their best years are behind them. It's a mark of a society in decline. Even the rebels like the Maquis are living out an outmoded frontier fantasy. In TOS, there was still a sense that they were moving forward -- embracing strange new cultures and building something new on the frontier. They ate food cubes and drank blue alien liquor and wore weird gauzy outfits and had disdain for "primitive" cultures like our own. Their society had weird hippies and mad inventors and utopian colonies and, yes, lots of nostalgia, but it never felt as staid and comfortable as the TNG future did. I know the Feds "won" the Dominion War, but I think there's a good case to be made for them being a fading power that is primed either to experience a cultural revival or simply fade away.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:02
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:There's no money and no reason to work, yet Federation citizens, like Mr. Sisko, continue to happily perform their jobs for no reason other than the fact that "they want to". I don't know; it just seems too rosy and optimistic to me. I think TOS was more realistic in its depiction of human nature than more recent Star Trek shows. Recent studies and pilot projects testing Universal Basic Income show that as well as acting as a direct economic stimulus to the community, it tends to increase entrepreneurship while improving quality of life. I think you can probably measure how likely you think a Trek technology post-scarcity world would be a social utopia by your modern political outlook. A European socialist is likely to see something like TNG utopia, while an American Republican will picture Planet of the Welfare Queens.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:05
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I'm not explaining myself well, but my unpopular opinion is that TOS is more realistic than TNG - at least in that respect. For what it's worth I wholeheartedly agree with you. Edit: And I guess I'm a republican now.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:05
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Duckbag posted:Sure they have state-of-the-art holosuites, but all anyone seems to use them for is historical roleplaying and casual sightseeing. The civilian jobs we see are all self-consciously traditional. Their hobbies and interests mostly revolve around theater, music, art, dance, and sports that are centuries old. These are just all writing conveniences for the audience to relate to, writers can't come up with a cool idea of what a 23rd century hobby would be and go for the lazy method instead. I have to imagine most citizens are actually doing modern hobbies and appreciating modern culture, but the writers didn't want to show us that stuff because thinking it up is hard.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:08
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All the capitalists die in world war 3 and it took a few centuries to root out the straglers
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Jul 21, 2017 17:14
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Holy gently caress Picard jumping back to the console and operating it himself First, I really love reading your posts as you're watching these episodes. One of my friends re-watched TNG for the first time in well over a decade last year, and I had a huge amount of fun watching episodes with her and chatting about the episodes. That said: did you notice how when they first beam onto the Enterprise-C bridge, it's a smoldering wreck and the only people left alive on the bridge are the captain and the trusted lieutenant? And then how the last shot we see of the Enterprise-D bridge in the alternate timeline is of the bridge ablaze and the last two people we see alive are the captain and the trusted lieutenant(-commander)? I loving love that.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:20
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vermin posted:Edit: And I guess I'm a republican now. Apologies, I'm not trying to start a D&D shitfight in the Star Trek thread. But remember that post-scarcity Trek Earth is more than just free food, housing and TV for everyone: - everyone has unlimited access to any education or training they want, - Earth is post-conflict and post-borders, travel costs are trivial, anyone can go anywhere there is an interesting opportunity, - there are a poo poo-ton of colony worlds with new ones being founded all the time, anyone who can't find happiness on Earth can head offworld for free, - if you really are a misfit on Earth and you want to be a trader or a merc, or even a criminal, welp the Alpha and Beta Quadrants are big places and we see plenty of humans doing exactly that in Trek.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:22
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I disagree that the drive for money creates creativity. Look at the great artists throughout history. Until the last hundred years they all came from wealthy or at least bougie families -- the fact that they didn't need to worry about money so much is what allowed them to be artists to begin with. I own my own small business and I had sunk thousands into it with no return yet and if I didn't have to worry about feeding myself I would devote myself to it all the time. I make video games and because I have something terribly wrong with me, I enjoy making them. I made them for myself before I ever made any I'd show someone else. In my idle time I can't stop thinking of games I'd like to make. There are probably plenty of productive things all of you would do even if you had no external motivation to do them.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:22
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:
Imagine you could be a millionaire doing your favorite hobby and never working a 9-5 desk job again. Would you feel less accomplished because you are doing something you enjoy and not something that 'needs to be done'? In the TNG future, all career paths are available and everyone has the same if not higher standard of living as a current-day millionaire. Want to go hiking every day for the rest of your life? Guess what - there are positions available across the Federation for park managers. Of course, if you want to occupy a highly specialized field, there will be competition for it. I dunno, would you just sit at home and be bored all day if you had the galaxy available to you?
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Jul 21, 2017 17:23
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The Bloop posted:Now, janitor in bumfuck Iowa? We suddenly have a problem unless I am somehow "paid" in holodeck rations or days on Risa or whatever Something else to keep in mind is that in an advanced society that more equitably shares wealth, even if you're stuck with working a boring or unpleasant job, you wouldn't necessarily have to put in forty hours a week doing it. If you spread out the work across enough people it could wind up being one or two days a week, maybe even for less than eight hours a day. It could also be something you'd only do for a couple of years instead of for decades.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:24
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