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Your Computer posted:Oh for sure, and I'm not trying to defend the ridiculous post either Letting people solo dungeons would in fact make things worse for people who don't want to solo them, because then there would be less people in the queue.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:23
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Gearhead posted:This is what dungeon level sync is for. Not quite, because level sync is pretty much taking whatever job you enjoy and making it less fun. I'd rather spam PoTD than do leveling or 50/60 roulette.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:37
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Fister Roboto posted:Letting people solo dungeons would in fact make things worse for people who don't want to solo them, because then there would be less people in the queue. It's an MMO. Playing with people should be expected. I like having things I CAN do solo, but there needs to be a certain gravitas to certain trials, this is what wrangling other nerds is for.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:38
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Maguoob posted:Not quite, because level sync is pretty much taking whatever job you enjoy and making it less fun. I'd rather spam PoTD than do leveling or 50/60 roulette. Yes. Level Sync should just be revamped at this point to scale down stats but leave abilities intact.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:39
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:... are you illiterate? What's your problem? e: oh, it's you
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Jul 21, 2017 18:40
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How does rdm parse vs blm? My rdm is 62 as of last night and I've been blm 4 lyfe since arr but I'm really salty about how much easier it is to do my (flashy and fun rotation) while being more mobile to do mechanics and not having to worry about losing AF/UI, a foul charge that was about to tick, the dps loss from my dot dropping off, or watching leylines rot in an aoe. Not to mention the opportunity costs of setting it all back up if something goes wrong. Plus rdm can spot heal, raise, and drop a party damage increase. If blm is way better in the rdm in the end, then cool. But if it's a small gap and rdm gets to do all the damage for less effort, then gently caress it I'll take the red.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:40
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itskage posted:How does rdm parse vs blm? My rdm is 62 as of last night and I've been blm 4 lyfe since arr but I'm really salty about how much easier it is to do my (flashy and fun rotation) while being more mobile to do mechanics and not having to worry about losing AF/UI, a foul charge that was about to tick, the dps loss from my dot dropping off, or watching leylines rot in an aoe. Not to mention the opportunity costs of setting it all back up if something goes wrong. Play 👏 the class 👏👏 you 👏 enjoy. 👏👏
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Jul 21, 2017 18:42
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Toshimo posted:Play 👏 the class 👏👏 you 👏 enjoy. 👏👏 While decent advice, that isn't the question they asked. RDM is parsing equal to or slightly above BLM currently, due to ease of recovery from mistakes and extreme mobility for a caster.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:43
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Toshimo posted:Play 👏 the class 👏👏 you 👏 enjoy. 👏👏 This. Our MCH is starting on MCH because he's just so much better at it than BRD it's no contest, even though it's a dead gay class. He's usually second or third on the meter.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:45
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King Cohort posted:While decent advice, that isn't the question they asked. BLM probably still needs a slight boost for the current fights to actually pull ahead of RDM. That or BLM needs some sort of raid damage up
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Jul 21, 2017 18:48
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Toshimo posted:Play 👏 the class 👏👏 you 👏 enjoy. 👏👏 I enjoy both and want to know where they stand in relation to each other so I can decide which one to gear up. Luckily it's just weapons and materia.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:51
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BrightWing posted:This. Our MCH is starting on MCH because he's just so much better at it than BRD it's no contest, even though it's a dead gay class. He's usually second or third on the meter. the thing is, if someone asks the question "which job puts out more damage" they are looking for that specific information, not fishing for "play what you want who cares" responses if your dude likes playing mch purely because its his thing and fun, cool, i get that, but thats not the answer to "which does more damage, brd or mch?"
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Jul 21, 2017 18:51
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There's also a huge difference when I'm asking as someone playing since arr with lots of leveled jobs vs a new player asking for a recommendation.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:56
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Toshimo posted:Yes. Level Sync should just be revamped at this point to scale down stats but leave abilities intact. The only thing is, you'd have to do this very carefully to preserve even the remotest sense of balance. Imagine zoning into Tam-Tara Deepcroft and there are two black mages on the team. One's a fresh level 17 daisy, still figuring out the most basic elements of the class. The other is a level 70 veteran that knows their rotation in and out. The level 70 is going to have way more skills, so even if their stats were reduced to the same level, they'll be doing way more damage just by virtue of having higher potency moves available. Foul, Flare, Fire 4, etc. The new BLM is going to be doing peanuts in comparison (not to mention aggro problems any new tank would have), and the whole balance of the dungeon flies out the window. Nobody gets to actually play the dungeon except the walking nuclear bomb. So you've gotta nerf the entire toolkit of a class in order to bring them in line. But then you have to make a BLM doing their top of the line level 70 rotation roughly equivalent to the sprout's rotation of "fire 1 x1000". But it doesn't seem fair that the level-synced guy should have to push himself to the limit just to match the person pressing one button until they run out of mana. And what if you're not a super endgame level player, and merely average at your class? A sloppy level 70 rotation means you're now dealing significantly less damage than the dork who has nothing better than Impulse Drive. I have no idea what the answer would be. Maybe have it as a separate queue option, where you agree to take the massive hit to stats and potencies and treat it as a sort of challenge run, but then you'd have a bunch of dweebs in DF thinking they're hot poo poo, pulling even less DPS than they normally do.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:56
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Fair enough.Even with current class balance I'm a big believer in play what's fun, but that's not what he asked, you are right. RDM parses higher in basically everything cause they do great damage with no set up required whole being insanely mobile, and savage needs a pretty fair amount of movement from what I've done if you care about that.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:59
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BrightWing posted:Fair enough.Even with current class balance I'm a big believer in play what's fun, but that's not what he asked, you are right. Blm is far more satisfying. Rdm's rotation is shallow and there's no detrimental effects for doing mechanics. When you do blm right so that all your phases and abilities stay up through mechanics and transitions, it takes far more effort but feels awesome. It's just that doing all that work for less damage is also a lovely feeling. So the situation is gray, especially when red mage is still fun, just doesn't have that same feeling of accomplishment.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:08
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Rainuwastaken posted:The only thing is, you'd have to do this very carefully to preserve even the remotest sense of balance. Imagine zoning into Tam-Tara Deepcroft and there are two black mages on the team. One's a fresh level 17 daisy, still figuring out the most basic elements of the class. The other is a level 70 veteran that knows their rotation in and out. Is balance in leveling dungeons important? I guess people could vote kick the sprout BLM because he can't cast Foul or whatever but I doubt that would happen often.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:18
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:... are you verliterate?  Rainuwastaken posted:The level 70 is going to have way more skills, so even if their stats were reduced to the same level, they'll be doing way more damage just by virtue of having higher potency moves available Or you can just nerf his damage by another 1% per levels synced down. Damage will stay about the same, but you get to keep your rotation. Magic, I know!
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Jul 21, 2017 19:18
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itskage posted:Blm is far more satisfying. Rdm's rotation is shallow and there's no detrimental effects for doing mechanics. When you do blm right so that all your phases and abilities stay up through mechanics and transitions, it takes far more effort but feels awesome. It's just that doing all that work for less damage is also a lovely feeling. So the situation is gray, especially when red mage is still fun, just doesn't have that same feeling of accomplishment. Bashing transpose while trying to figure out when the other 7 people will stop loving up mechanics isn't fun at all though. Also getting stuck in a rock or marked with the freeze lighting marker while watching enochian fall off 1s short of a foul.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:20
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Truga posted:Or you can just nerf his damage by another 1% per levels synced down. Damage will stay about the same, but you get to keep your rotation. Magic, I know! It absolutely would not be that easy.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:28
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I'm okay with lowbie content having access to lowbie spells because it keeps things consistent for actual lowbies and that's all the balance that content should have. While it sucks not to be doing kickflips and Verflaring things in Totorak I don't find it that big of a deal and sometimes it's even fun to play a simpler rotation due to not having access to your main one.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:30
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What's bad is that they really screwed up balance by removing all cross class skills. As a healer I'd be spamming blizzard 2 through those dungeons, now I used toucan multidot?
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Jul 21, 2017 19:33
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Truga posted:
No amount of damage nerf changes that keeping your abilities synced down means putting people with Hallowed Ground, Holy, and Summon Bahamut in instances like Sastasha and Ifrit.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:33
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Having kitted out my level 50 and 60 jobs with poetics gear and weapons, what's a good item to spend them on? I don't do any crafting, so I'm thinking of getting something to put on the market. Or is there other items I should pick up that I'm just overlooking?
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Jul 21, 2017 19:35
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A better thing to do would be to reorganize the order in which you learn abilities, so that all classes have a mostly functional rotation when they step into dungeons. That would solve a lot more problems than just  I can't use Flare at level 15
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Jul 21, 2017 19:36
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Jimbot posted:Having kitted out my level 50 and 60 jobs with poetics gear and weapons, what's a good item to spend them on? I don't do any crafting, so I'm thinking of getting something to put on the market. Or is there other items I should pick up that I'm just overlooking? Will you at any point be doing a relic or anima weapon? You can start stocking the materials for those.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:37
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Fister Roboto posted:A better thing to do would be to reorganize the order in which you learn abilities, so that all classes have a mostly functional rotation when they step into dungeons. That would solve a lot more problems than just Honestly, yeah. I don't think you need a heavy rotation by 15 but I do think that by 35-45 you should at least have reliable AoE on all classes rather than only on some.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:38
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Jimbot posted:Having kitted out my level 50 and 60 jobs with poetics gear and weapons, what's a good item to spend them on? I don't do any crafting, so I'm thinking of getting something to put on the market. Or is there other items I should pick up that I'm just overlooking? Demimateria for vendoring, couple orchestrion rolls if you're missing them, Umbrite/other Anima items if you'd like to grind up the weapons for glamours.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:38
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly, yeah. Every class should have an AOE ability at 15, and it's incredibly stupid that they don't.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:40
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 Give me Holy at 15 plskthx.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:44
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Nah you get Dunno what AST gets. Microgravity? 
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Jul 21, 2017 19:47
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hobbesmaster posted:Nah you get Judging by the rest of the game, I believe AST gets "poo poo on".
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Jul 21, 2017 19:49
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Ast gets that power of the one guy from Stone Ocean that calls down a bunch of baby meteors
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Jul 21, 2017 19:51
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Fister Roboto posted:It absolutely would not be that easy. No, but it would not be that much harder either. Check how much dps people average at rotational breakpoint levels (30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 for most classes), make a lookup table how many % their dps is nerfed if they're synced down so they do similar dps to a legit level 10/20/etc person. We *know* they have the numbers, because they need them to tune their content.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:54
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So I have been a Very Bad Crafter™ for some time now. I think I got lazy at 56 and just did GC turn ins for CUL to hit 60 and then after a while did Moogles with CUL and the 150 white set to slowly get all of the other crafting classes to 60, save for ARM which is at 56 now. With my crap gear and limited knowledge I can easily get the AAR Master Craftsman I books no problem. However Master Craftsman II are a completely different animal. I manage to stumble into Blacksmithing II because of blind dumb luck and a obscene proc, but everything else doesn't come close in terms of quality. I didn't think I'd need to kit myself out in Level 60 ironworks gear to do it, or do I? I thought that things were going well for me because I can pretty easily HQ everything I have attempted from normal mats, but those books elude me and I want to be able to help out friends when they start to craft by making them a decent 50 right side set. Any advice goons?
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Jul 21, 2017 19:58
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hobbesmaster posted:Bashing transpose while trying to figure out when the other 7 people will stop loving up mechanics isn't fun at all though. This is what's making it hard for me to choose whether to buy Omega gear for NIN or BLM next week. BLM is so ludicrously satisfying to get right, until everything goes wrong on you.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:01
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Badger of Basra posted:Is balance in leveling dungeons important? I guess people could vote kick the sprout BLM because he can't cast Foul or whatever but I doubt that would happen often. I kinda think it's important. Not because of the potential to kick people; I don't think it would happen all that often, and those assholes are the kind of people you report anyway. It's mostly that it's not fun at all to be a new player and watch some max-level Ubermensch turn your dungeon into peanut butter with the flick of a wrist. Leveling dungeons are boring to us because we've done them to death, but I still remember scampering between crystals in Dzmael Darkhold, or being shocked at the sudden difficulty spike of The Vault. I don't think new players should be completely robbed of that experience. To put it another way, it's kinda like taking a new player under your wing and doing their first EX Primal clears unsynced. Yeah, they get through the content, but they're not really experiencing the fight.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:02
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Truga posted:No, but it would not be that much harder either. Check how much dps people average at rotational breakpoint levels (30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 for most classes), make a lookup table how many % their dps is nerfed if they're synced down so they do similar dps to a legit level 10/20/etc person. We *know* they have the numbers, because they need them to tune their content. That still sounds like a loving nightmare when you consider all the different factors you have to account for. Also it would compound the problem of lovely dps players who can't do their full rotation. Imagine a dragoon who just does full thrust combos except now he's doing 50% less damage too.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:05
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Truga posted:No, but it would not be that much harder either. Check how much dps people average at rotational breakpoint levels (30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 for most classes), make a lookup table how many % their dps is nerfed if they're synced down so they do similar dps to a legit level 10/20/etc person. We *know* they have the numbers, because they need them to tune their content. It would need to do this for every player individually on the fly because there are bads and lol if anyone thinks SE's infrastructure could ever handle that. even a bad can spam fire 1 in early dungeons and do top tier sastasha dps. Put the same bad at the helm of their 70 rotation and they'll be doing autoattack level damage which makes the bads super bad. I do love the idea of healers having to blow every cooldown of their 70 moveset in halatali's final boss.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:06
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Fister Roboto posted:A better thing to do would be to reorganize the order in which you learn abilities, so that all classes have a mostly functional rotation when they step into dungeons. That would solve a lot more problems than just One of the best things about modern WoW is how early classes, even individual specs (which are basically classes unto themselves at this point), come online. You feel like an Enhancement Shaman, which feels different from an Arms Warrior, an Outlaw Rogue, or a Retribution Paladin, as early as level 10, and it only splits further from there. Classes/jobs in FFXIV take significantly longer to become fun, let alone different from other jobs in their role. Melee DPS is probably the most egregious example of this, but it's still pretty common among the other roles - look at the level-synced healers for another big example. The soonest this will be addressed is in two years when 5.0 comes out and even then it isn't something they've really talked about so I'm not sure it's something they view as a problem, or at least one severe enough to untangle/completely rewrite their spaghetti code. I'm not really sure who the fix would even be targeting at that point either; I feel like Stormblood's insane marketing push would have been the time to redo the newbie experience but instead we were given level boost potions to bypass it, so I guess it'd just be for making level synced dungeons less bad and those vets who still had a few lowbie jobs to level.
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