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Interplanetary migration, terraforming, habitable space stations and future tech infrastructure probably take a ton of pressure off for population growth.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:13
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While there would definitely be hassles, problems, and teething pains, I think the idea that people would just sit around like tube grubs - at least by and large, obviously a few would - if they weren't being horse-whipped by the capitalist grind says more about the viewer than about the idea.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:40
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It's been a hundred years or so, all the terminally lazy people are probably skeletons in dusty holodecks by now.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:41
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Presumably also large parts of Earth were rendered uninhabitable by WWIII and that land may have only been decontaminated by TOS time.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:46
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FuturePastNow posted:Presumably also large parts of Earth were rendered uninhabitable by WWIII and that land may have only been decontaminated by TOS time. I like to think the Vulcans cleaned all that poo poo up with their tech and this is why the humans trusted them enough for them to be able to stifle the Warp 5 program and such
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Jul 22, 2017 04:04
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time is still scarce, nobody is going to parent 10 kids and do world class research.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:30
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Arglebargle III posted:time is still scarce, nobody is going to parent 10 kids and do world class research.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:34
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I took a look at that Discovery stuff and the ship isn't as bad as I thought. The nacelle struts are close to what I said I wanted a little while ago; the back half doesn't look like a straight up triangle at least. I still wish they were angled up to bring the nacelles above the saucer, but to be honest it's not killing me. The Klingon stuff has gone from feeling Dwarvish in the TNG era to more Orcish. Maybe that suits the time period, I don't know how I feel about that yet. Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 12 "Past Tense, part 2" And you guys think "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" was fourth-wall-breaking and preachy. This is easily its equal. The Sanctuary Districts strike me as more third-world socialist worker's paradise, like Venzuela or North Korea, an abortive attempt at, or dark side of, the society you all think the Federation is. Oh, down on your luck, come here where the government will take care of all your needs. Whoops, the money and care ran out, sorry about your predicament! Next!
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Jul 22, 2017 04:38
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In the sense of active supervision and interaction.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:38
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Arglebargle III posted:time is still scarce, nobody is going to parent 10 kids and do world class research. Or you could parent a bunch of kids through research!   Including your wife! Wait, hold on...
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Jul 22, 2017 04:41
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 12 "Past Tense, part 2" Wow dude. The ghetto for the unemployed, pretty criminals and mentally ill makes you think of a loony liberal utopia? I think it's a ghetto. The armed guards kinda give it away.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:41
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Frionnel posted:http://www.startrek.com/article/star-trek-discovery-gallery-opens-at-comic-con   The Shenzhou looks alright. The paint job is a bit much, and the nacelles should be round but otherwise looks a lot like a logical development from the NX class. The Discovery looks...slightly less horrible in normal Starfleet Grey instead of gold:  Still looks too much like a Klingot Battle Cruiser tho: 
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Jul 22, 2017 04:41
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Now it really looks like a pizza cutter, even more than the official tie-in pizza cutter.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Wow dude. The ghetto for the unemployed, pretty criminals and mentally ill makes you think of a loony liberal utopia? I think it's a ghetto. ... almost like DPRK which was one of my examples? I mean it's basically North Korea writ small. When I said "socialist worker's paradise" I hoped it was clear I was being sardonic.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:57
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:... almost like DPRK which was one of my examples? I mean it's basically North Korea writ small. When I said "socialist worker's paradise" I hoped it was clear I was being sardonic. ...no, it's not like DPRK at all. The entire episode is a pretty scathing indictment of capitalism, where the government struggles with problems it doesn't want to put any effort into solving while the wealthy mingle in their towers and talk excitedly about their environment-destroying ventures.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:02
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:... "... While the episode was filming, an article in the Los Angeles Times described a proposal by the Mayor that the homeless people of that city could be moved to fenced-in areas so as to contain them, in an effort to "make downtown Los Angeles friendlier to business." Alexander Siddig has commented on the amazing coincidence: "The episode was almost a cinematic version of that statement by the LA council." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion) As Ira Behr comments the plan was "to put aside part of downtown Los Angeles as a haven, nice word, a haven for the homeless." Similarly, as Robert Wolfe says, "That was what the Sanctuary Districts were, places where the homeless could just be so no-one had to see them, and literally there it was in the newspaper. We were a little freaked out."... " Link to the article in question http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-14/news/mn-50276_1_homeless-people
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Jul 22, 2017 05:05
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Inescapable Duck posted:...no, it's not like DPRK at all. The entire episode is a pretty scathing indictment of capitalism, where the government struggles with problems it doesn't want to put any effort into solving while the wealthy mingle in their towers and talk excitedly about their environment-destroying ventures. lol if you think this is unique to capitalism.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:16
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Trip report: DS9 season 3, episode 12 "Past Tense, part 2"
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Jul 22, 2017 05:16
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I'm forced to admit your meaning escapes me.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:25
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:The Klingon stuff has gone from feeling Dwarvish in the TNG era to more Orcish. Maybe that suits the time period, I don't know how I feel about that yet. Yeah, i remember the ones in Into Darkness reminding me of Uruk-Hai, and i guess this is what they're going with now. I can get used to it.   That Torchbearer Armor, however, is hot garbage.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:42
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Never mind; I've pretty much made my point. Carry on. I'm glad that Discovery is sticking to a more TOS-like design with its tricorder and communicator. I still don't have super high hopes that CBS will do a good job with it, but I'm reserving judgment until I see what they do. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 05:53
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:lol if you think this is unique to capitalism. Of course it isn't, but they didn't set the episode in Pyongyang.
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Jul 22, 2017 07:19
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I have to admit, I do like Discovery's communicator, phaser, and phaser rifle. The communicator is a nice hybrid of the TOS and Wrath of Khan styles, with a TOS styled body and WoK's chunky cover. The phasers are a neat blend of three sources; TOS, The Cage, and Enterprise. The pistol has the classic TOS silhouette with a Cage style asymmetrical tri-barrel. It's a much better design update than the godawful JJ phasers. The rifle resembles the MACO guns from Enterprise and even incorporates the barrel grills from the phase pistols. Giving all of them black plastic components is a nice finishing touch, very TOS. Shame about everything else, including the generic tricorder and the hideous away team armor.
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Jul 22, 2017 07:19
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Like, the Sanctuary Districts are not failed attempts at worker's communes or socialist states, they are literal walled ghettos where the government, with the encouragement of the wealthy, dumps anyone who doesn't own a home or have a job, makes the most token possible efforts to 'help' them find work (which is literal reality for a lot of the world now!) and gives them the bare minimum, treating them as an inconvenience because they don't make anyone money. People do not volunteer to live in them, they are forcibly confined and cut off from the avenues of society that would give them opportunities. What would your capitalist utopia do with them? Render them down for their component materials?
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Jul 22, 2017 07:21
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"Bad right wing thing is actually bad left wing thing" and vice versa are the most tedious arguments imaginable. In this case, they're both pretty dumb to boot. The DS9 writers were using a dystopian near future setting to comment on what they saw as a huge contemporary problem -- the marginalization and erasure of the homeless, unemployed, and mentally ill. It's set in California, not Venezuela, and there's no indication of a socialist revolution, so that analogy doesn't work, but at the same time the city it's in has been known for being fairly liberal, so it's not really an indictment of the right wing either. It's basically just "this is what happens when society stops caring about the less fortunate -- its bad," which I think is a fairly universal message that you can find all over the political spectrum and indeed, as a cornerstone to most world religions.
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Jul 22, 2017 08:39
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tasha's rapegang planet is where all the libertarians went
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Jul 22, 2017 09:05
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Tighclops posted:tasha's rapegang planet is where all the libertarians went Or Ferenginar.
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Jul 22, 2017 09:07
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WampaLord posted:Or Ferenginar.
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Jul 22, 2017 09:08
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Duckbag posted:"Bad right wing thing is actually bad left wing thing" and vice versa are the most tedious arguments imaginable. This is closer to the point I was (much more antagonistically) trying to make. So I'll pull back a bit and appropriate your point, if you don't mind. The episode does, on reflection, focus a lot more on the human side rather than the societal side, where sure we face economic problems of unknown and perhaps debatable origin, but the real problem is that people are numb to the human suffering going on right in front of them.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:02
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As an aside if Discovery doesn't have at least one very obvious "capitalism is poo poo" episode then the whole thing will have been an utter waste I mean I even saw a recent Doctor Who do an episode like that so if Trek misses the boat on that now I'll just be like augh uuuughhh
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Jul 22, 2017 18:30
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Yeha I'm sure this prequel show nobody asked for based on a dying franchise that hasn't produced anything worth caring about in 20 years is going to speak truth to power by straight facedly condemning capital
skasion fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 18:36
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skasion posted:Yeha I'm sure this prequel show nobody asked for based on a dying franchise that hasn't produced anything worth caring about in 20 years is going to speak truth to power by straight facedly condemn capital TNG frequently rebuked the obsession with acquiring wealth and material like a childish fad in the middle of the Me Generation Reaganomics 80s, Discovery's got no excuses.
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Jul 22, 2017 18:42
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Marshal Radisic posted:There's also stuff like having the Cardassians be introduced as a major(ish) interstellar power in the middle of the fourth season out of nowhere, leaving the fans to backfill the 24th century and figure out how they would have fit in with everything else. (Though come to think of it, I've never seen anyone come up with a decent in-universe explanation as to why the Cardassians were nonentities in the TOS/TOS movie era.) My guess is that the Cardassians were probably going full blown Make Cardassia Great Again during the movies. If ENT was a proper prequel before season 4 it would have been interesting to have had a first contact episode with the Cardassians where they are pretty mellow but some clearly militaristic fringe figures are on the rise.
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Jul 22, 2017 18:58
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Tighclops posted:As an aside if Discovery doesn't have at least one very obvious "capitalism is poo poo" episode then the whole thing will have been an utter waste My least favorite aspect of Enterprise was that the underlying message of Star Trek was co-opted by a post-9/11 nationalist sentiment like Archer having to make "tough choices" like torturing civilians, but it's okay because in the end it was for a good reason. I like to assume that the writers were smart enough to portray the prequel as humanity being less "evolved" than the TNG era but I know in my hear that it was completely unintentional.
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Jul 22, 2017 19:05
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vermin posted:24th century sphincters have become atrophied and weak from underuse Look people, we all knew setting up a new colony would be tough. Now, we are having trouble with the power generators, so we have to take down the bowel transporters. We will all have to void our bowels manually for the foreseeable future.
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Jul 22, 2017 19:34
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skasion posted:Yeha I'm sure this prequel show nobody asked for based on a dying franchise that hasn't produced anything worth caring about in 20 years is going to speak truth to power by straight facedly condemning capital There are a few things about Star Trek that are constants. Space, overacting, and mocking of present-day capitalist society.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:08
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Tighclops posted:As an aside if Discovery doesn't have at least one very obvious "capitalism is poo poo" episode then the whole thing will have been an utter waste I'm okay without this really, all shows do this nowadays to the point where I'm tired of it. TV shows don't change the world and I think it's time we stop expecting them to.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:10
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Shibawanko posted:I'm okay without this really, all shows do this nowadays to the point where I'm tired of it. TV shows don't change the world and I think it's time we stop expecting them to. Now if you mean that the future of society is unlikely to revolve on whether or not Discovery's 13 episodes include one that takes a poo poo on capitalist society in specific - you're probably right. Even Star Trek didn't exactly do it constantly. And it is very easy to assume that these are somehow the only or the most important things that matter. But they do have an impact.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:18
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Shibawanko posted:I'm okay without this really, all shows do this nowadays to the point where I'm tired of it. TV shows don't change the world and I think it's time we stop expecting them to. Martin Luther King Jr. himself told Nichelle Nichols to not quit Star Trek because it was so important for young black kids to have a role model to look up. Media absolutely changes the world.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:23
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Shibawanko posted:I just started watching the ep where they introduced the Cardassians ("The Wounded"), it already feels like a DS9 ep with Obrien and Keiko and Good Guy Dukat. The real final straw for Damar and the Dominion was when Weyoun would not stop pronouncing his name as "day-mar". Well Manicured Man fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 21:12
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