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WampaLord posted:Martin Luther King Jr. himself told Nichelle Nichols to not quit Star Trek because it was so important for young black kids to have a role model to look up. Nichols made that story up (or, at the very least, has very heavily embellished it).
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Jul 22, 2017 21:43
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Timby posted:Nichols made that story up (or, at the very least, has very heavily embellished it). You got a source for that?
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Jul 22, 2017 21:48
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WampaLord posted:You got a source for that? Both Inside Star Trek and The Fifty Year Mission point out that, at the very least, Nichols' story has changed pretty radically over the years.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:12
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Nessus posted:Well that's the thing: They do, but not in direct ways. The TV show "24" had meaningful impact on Bush-era policies and their justifications. A large number of people have said that they were meaningfully inspired and encouraged to see Uhura on Star Trek, and one of the big drivers for Voyager-in-specific fandom is the substantial female cast including a female commander who is not constantly undermined and treated like poo poo. (We leave aside the question of Voyager's quality for now.) Sure it can probably contribute in a small way, having a minority character in a role just being a regular person probably does help, a bit. But I don't like this expectation on shows to be platforms of systemic criticism. Most people with any sense by now know what's wrong with capitalism, we don't need to have it ruminated on by silly TV shows endlessly so that it just becomes another source of revenue. There's this way of thinking that I think originated from Zizek especially where people watch movies and shows with the expectation to find some kind of wisdom or analysis. If you want to do something about it, then try to do something, or read a real book. Shows and movies are distractions by the nature of their format and I don't like it when they pretend to be something else. It just lets people feel like they're doing something when they're not actually doing something. I just miss the cheerful soap opera style of DS9 or the first two seasons of Twin Peaks, that's what's really missing from TV now. I mean, you just have to open the Guardian right now and find as many as two articles on the front page talking about how "smart" TV is now to know that we've reached Peak Middlebrow: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/22/jane-campion-clever-people-film-tv-top-of-the-lake https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jul/22/game-of-thrones-handmaids-tale-wonder-woman-female-power
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Jul 22, 2017 22:27
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This is Star Trek
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Jul 22, 2017 22:30
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Timby posted:Both Inside Star Trek and The Fifty Year Mission point out that, at the very least, Nichols' story has changed pretty radically over the years. That's really not enough to assume she's lying about it. Memory is fallible, and while she might have misremembered some details, I assume she's not making up the fact that her and MLK Jr discussed her role.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:31
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Shibawanko posted:I just miss the cheerful soap opera style of DS9 or the first two seasons of Twin Peaks, that's what's really missing from TV now. Hell, I'd even agree that if TV programs don't succeed as entertainment first, any other value they have will be greatly diluted.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:40
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Saying Star Trek shouldn't be analysed seems a pretty wild thing to say in a lengthy Star Trek thread.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:47
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WampaLord posted:That's really not enough to assume she's lying about it. Memory is fallible, and while she might have misremembered some details, I assume she's not making up the fact that her and MLK Jr discussed her role. No I'm pretty sure that according to a few book passages from some other people and their decades-old memories nothing good or interesting ever actually happened in the entire length of Star Trek's production, it's just ego and dementia and self-aggrandizement all the way down.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:52
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WampaLord posted:That's really not enough to assume she's lying about it. Memory is fallible, and while she might have misremembered some details, I assume she's not making up the fact that her and MLK Jr discussed her role. It's more that her story has metamorphosed over the years from "I met MLK Jr once and he told me he was a fan of Star Trek" to "I was ready to quit Star Trek and had written my resignation when I had a chance meeting with MLK Jr and I told him I was ready to quit and he told me I couldn't possibly quit because my role meant so much, and I just couldn't let him down." I mean, it's a heartwarming tale and all, but the inconsistencies from pretty much the day she first started telling it suggests that the truth has been stretched more than a bit. Which isn't a knock on Nichols, I mean, most of the other original series cast members' books have at least some inaccuracies (Shatner's two are full of poo poo), and even the really authoritative ones like Inside Star Trek are flat-out wrong on some major details about the show's production.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:58
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Timby posted:It's more that her story has metamorphosed over the years from "I met MLK Jr once and he told me he was a fan of Star Trek" to "I was ready to quit Star Trek and had written my resignation when I had a chance meeting with MLK Jr and I told him I was ready to quit and he told me I couldn't possibly quit because my role meant so much, and I just couldn't let him down." Well, I wish you had responded with this more nuanced and informed view the first time instead of saying: Timby posted:Nichols made that story up (or, at the very least, has very heavily embellished it).
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Jul 22, 2017 23:03
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New trailer out for Discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7IMj7WFyE
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Jul 22, 2017 23:24
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Oof, this really looks like it has all the worst parts of JJ Trek with none of the Simon Pegg writing. I don't want a grimdark action Star Trek, thanks.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:27
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WampaLord posted:Oof, this really looks like it has all the worst parts of JJ Trek with none of the Simon Pegg writing. People said basically the same thing about Beyond after looking at the trailers and that came out fine.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:31
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I want to get off CBS's wild ride and I'm not even on the loving thing yet.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:32
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macnbc posted:People said basically the same thing about Beyond after looking at the trailers and that came out fine. WampaLord posted:with none of the Simon Pegg writing. C'mon, it wasn't that long a post, you can read the whole thing.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:36
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macnbc posted:New trailer out for Discovery: There's a possible indication in that trailer that Discovery is an experimental ship? The Klingon starship designs also look way different.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:38
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That trailer at least makes me hopeful that it will be a competent show that should never have had Star Trek branding
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Jul 22, 2017 23:42
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Looking forward to this! I like all the designs, and I hope they follow through with the hints of there being actual ideas in there. Trailers show off whiz-bang action better than ideas, but I feel they've got some potential concepts to explore here, and I appreciate that. Always possible it'll crash and burn, and I won't be shocked if it does, but for now I'm optimistic and ready to enjoy the ride.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:42
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FlamingLiberal posted:There's a possible indication in that trailer that Discovery is an experimental ship? At least when Fuller was still involved, the idea was that Discovery was the newest ship in the fleet, the first of its class. The overly blue lighting is goddamn hideous, though.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:44
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Timby posted:The overly blue lighting is goddamn hideous, though. Blue LEDs are still fresh and new in the 23rd century, so manufacturers still want to put them on everything.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:47
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Timby posted:It's more that her story has metamorphosed over the years from "I met MLK Jr once and he told me he was a fan of Star Trek" to "I was ready to quit Star Trek and had written my resignation when I had a chance meeting with MLK Jr and I told him I was ready to quit and he told me I couldn't possibly quit because my role meant so much, and I just couldn't let him down." Timby posted:At least when Fuller was still involved, the idea was that Discovery was the newest ship in the fleet, the first of its class.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:48
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Isaacs' character is talking about 'a new way to fly' or whatever so maybe it's the first transwarp test ship?
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Jul 22, 2017 23:48
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That trailer did absolutely nothing for me. No interest at all. If this didn't have the Star Trek name on it I wouldn't give two shits one way or the other, it'd just be another derivative hyperkinetic melodramatic sci-actionfest. And I'm not 16 anymore, my interest no longer trades on that name alone.Big Mean Jerk posted:I have to admit, I do like Discovery's communicator, phaser, and phaser rifle. The communicator is a nice hybrid of the TOS and Wrath of Khan styles, with a TOS styled body and WoK's chunky cover. The phasers are a neat blend of three sources; TOS, The Cage, and Enterprise. The pistol has the classic TOS silhouette with a Cage style asymmetrical tri-barrel. It's a much better design update than the godawful JJ phasers. The rifle resembles the MACO guns from Enterprise and even incorporates the barrel grills from the phase pistols. Giving all of them black plastic components is a nice finishing touch, very TOS. Yeah I agree, if they put as much thought into updating the original designs of everything else as they did those phasers and communicators, at least it would look cool. God help us if we ever see this show's version of a TOS Constitution.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:48
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Nessus posted:Are you posting from the Mirror Universe? Because while I could agree that we could do with TV shows that aren't all filmed like they're trying to be CSI or aping popular trends in action films, I feel that we were watching very different programs, based on your assessment of DS9 and Twin Peaks. I miss good character driven drama-comedy like i used to get from my homeboys Quark and Weyoun and Garak and Damar.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:50
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Still looks alright to me  If they cut a trailer for DS9 today, 2/3s of it would be fires and explosions from the first 5 mins. That's just how this stuff is marketed.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:51
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Sorry...I just don't completely buy that Nichols is misremembering or lying. To have had an African-American officer on 1960s television was a major deal. I can believe that MLK Jr. felt that her role on the show was important enough to give her a call, even if some details have been slightly embellished over the years.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:52
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Is it just me, or does that trailer look like they're hinting at some kind of big secret behind Harry fuckin' Mudd of all people?
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Jul 23, 2017 00:09
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Firebert posted:
This is certainly true. A DS9 trailer would probably have the "Enterprise" blowing up in it. And Locutus. And at least one mirror universe scene. It would be pretty misleading
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Jul 23, 2017 00:16
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According to the panel, Martin-Green's character isn't just mentored by Sarek, she's his adopted daughter.
Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 00:25
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Big Mean Jerk posted:he's her adopted daughter. hosed up if true
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Jul 23, 2017 00:31
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Big Mean Jerk posted:According to the panel, Martin-Green's character isn't just mentored by Sarek, he's her adopted daughter. 
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Jul 23, 2017 00:38
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Show looks pretty cool to me. Basically like Star Trek gets a BSG treatment, or JJ Trek except it might actually be about something. Looking forward to torrenting it.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:39
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Big Mean Jerk posted:According to the panel, Martin-Green's character isn't just mentored by Sarek, he's her adopted daughter. Uhhhhhhh..... Seriously? There is a shot in that trailer that does seem to hint at this though, with what looks like a much younger Burnham
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Jul 23, 2017 00:46
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Big Mean Jerk posted:According to the panel, Martin-Green's character isn't just mentored by Sarek, he's her adopted daughter.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:56
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Those uniforms still look hilariously uncomfortable, too.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:59
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Spock gotta lotta step/half-siblings that we never hear about until they appear...
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Jul 23, 2017 00:59
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Gaz-L posted:Spock gotta lotta step/half-siblings that we never hear about until they appear... The hell was happening on Vulcan?
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Jul 23, 2017 01:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:Apparently there was mention that Sarek has a previously unmentioned half-sibling also.
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Jul 23, 2017 01:16
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McSpanky posted:That trailer did absolutely nothing for me. No interest at all. If this didn't have the Star Trek name on it I wouldn't give two shits one way or the other, it'd just be another derivative hyperkinetic melodramatic sci-actionfest. And I'm not 16 anymore, my interest no longer trades on that name alone. If they weren't calling this Star Trek I probably wouldn't remember enough about that trailer to look for a torrent when the show finally drops, and that's really disappointing. Trailers can be be misleading or just lovely and all but this is so low rent and whatever looking even compared to SyFy' shows like Killjoys or Dark Matter I'm a little shocked. Shlocked, if you will.
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Jul 23, 2017 01:20
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