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CelticPredator posted:We can have a Superman movie that's finally fun! STOP BEING NEGATIVE
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Jul 22, 2017 21:54
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:16 |
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The Flash movie being Flashpoint is quite possibly some of the worst news they could've given me about that movie.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:54
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Showing people are happy Superman saved someone they personally know doesn't sell global hope.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:54
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Rhyno posted:STOP BEING NEGATIVE I'm being positive actually!
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Jul 22, 2017 21:55
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Let's ignore the end of BvS, his state funeral and memorial, and how people lionize the dead. Rhyno posted:Let's ignore that those posters are doubling down on how much they hated BvS and will find any excuse to point that out. The scenes work just fine and clearly show the average joe in the BvS universe either loves Superman (the DotD scene) or hates him (the capitol hill scene). It's not about how people react to him in-universe, it's about how the movie shows him to the audience and how they react. And it shows him terribly. You wanna poo-poo about people not appreciating the movie, make a loving argument first.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:56
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CelticPredator posted:I'm being positive actually! I'LL POSITIVE YOUR FACE Arist posted:It's not about how people react to him in-universe, it's about how the movie shows him to the audience and how they react. And it shows him terribly. Plenty of the audience can see it and have posted in this very thread about it. You just keep on hating bro.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:58
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Superman posted:I'LL POSITIVE YOUR FACE
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Jul 22, 2017 21:59
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troll better
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Jul 22, 2017 22:00
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Arist posted:troll better I'm not trolling and I've yet to be an rear end in a top hat to anyone about this discussion. I'm being very positive because all these announcements got me hype as gently caress!
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Jul 22, 2017 22:01
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Arist posted:Let's just ignore the last page of discussion about how the movie fails to present these things properly. BvS doesn't fail to present Superman as a beacon of hope or a savior properly, the film just presents those ideas differently and with contrast. The tone of BvS isn't conducive to generating a biased depiction of Superman, where he's ONLY good and right for the world, so I get why some people have an issue with BvS' portrayal of the character. But the goal of BvS was to show how "The Superman" is a conflicting idea, expressing both positive and negative aspects of his existence. The narrative crux of BvS shows just how wrong humanity and Batman were about Clark, when he sacrifices himself to save the world from Doomsday. I expect Justice League to round out Snyder's Superman "trilogy" with Clark finally having earned everyone's acceptance. teagone fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 22:02
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Superman saves the world in MoS and then does so again while sacrificing himself in BvS. But nah, he hasn't done poo poo.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:05
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Whether he's a savior or beacon or not is totally dependant on his depiction to you. So whether he's a beacon in universe is totally dependant on his depiction within universe, and after his death it's %100 laudatory from the media and world leaders.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:08
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teagone posted:BvS doesn't fail to present Superman as a beacon of hope or a savior properly, the film just presents those ideas differently and with contrast. The tone of BvS isn't conducive to generating a biased depiction of Superman, where he's ONLY good and right for the world, so I get why some people have an issue with that kind of portrayal of the character. But a the goal of BvS was to show how "The Superman" is a conflicting idea, expressing both positive and negative aspects of his existence. The narrative crux of BvS shows just how wrong humanity and Batman were about Clark, when he sacrifices himself to save the world from Doomsday. I expect Justice League to round out Snyder's Superman trilogy with Clark finally having earned everyone's acceptance. You keep going into all these deep complexities of the portrayal but they don't ever actually address any of the points I'm making. The issue is that Superman's portrayal is an inherent negative. He is defined to the audience primarily by his failures and even in the face of success by his boredom, selfishness, and lack of empathy. "Contrast?" Contrast with what? BvS doesn't even give Clark a definable loving point of view. I have a problem with Superman because he's not a character, not because the portrayal was too nuanced or whatever the hell you're trying to blame this on. And you can't deconstruct Superman when you already tried and failed to do that in the previous movie! Rhyno posted:I'm not trolling and I've yet to be an rear end in a top hat to anyone about this discussion. I'm being very positive because all these announcements got me hype as gently caress! I'm serious, gently caress off
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Jul 22, 2017 22:13
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Boredom, selfishness, and lack of empathy? Like, what the gently caress are you even taking about?
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Jul 22, 2017 22:14
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Whether he's a savior or beacon or not is totally dependant on his depiction to you. So whether he's a beacon in universe is totally dependant on his depiction within universe, and after his death it's %100 laudatory from the media and world leaders. I mean the audience has to buy the depiction and believe that reasonable people in the movie buy the depiction.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:17
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Rhyno posted:There's actually numerous scenes in BvS where large crowds of people are shown looking upon him as a saviour. BvS shows some people basically worshipping Superman as a god, true, even if Snyder is much more interested in those who have the opposite reaction for most of the running time. What it absolutely fails to do is show that anyone besides Lois and Martha admires, respects, is inspired by, or just plain likes him on anything resembling a human level.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:20
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Rhyno posted:What? Shops had preorders back then my dude. I ordered two for myself and my mom (who let me skip school!) grabbed a third. Maybe where you are they did. But where you are is not everywhere.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:24
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Also, I don't buy Affleck's denial of THR's report yesterday. He denied the rumors he was exiting the director's seat of The Batman pretty much until the day they were confirmed. If it's true, there's next to no chance that WB would confirm it before the promotional cycle for Justice League is over.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:26
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Barry Convex posted:BvS shows some people basically worshipping Superman as a god, true, even if Snyder is much more interested in those who have the opposite reaction for most of the running time. The ending is literally Batman admiring, respecting and being inspired by Superman.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:29
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Barry Convex posted:Also, I don't buy Affleck's denial of THR's report yesterday. He denied the rumors he was exiting the director's seat of The Batman pretty much until the day they were confirmed. He seemed pretty genuine about loving the role. Are you accusing him of being some kind of actor?
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Jul 22, 2017 22:30
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X-O posted:Maybe where you are they did. But where you are is not everywhere. Yeah the middle of nowhere South Dakota. If you had a comic shop they did special orders.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:37
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Rhyno posted:Yeah the middle of nowhere South Dakota. If you had a comic shop they did special orders. My comic shop, we had four in the city at the time, did not do special orders. Three were part of a chain that was mostly just a baseball card and sports shop with a tiny selection of back issues and new comics and the other was an actual comic shop but it was very small and only had been there for about a year. It was also within walking distance of my house. All of them had lines around the shops and the comics were on a first come first serve basis and lots of people didn't get one. I had a box at the shop where they did my subscriptions that my parents would get me every week (they let me get about 10 or so books a month) and we were specifically told if we wanted that issue (or the Knightfall issue later) that you had to come in person to the shop and they wouldn't hold them because of special circumstances and demand. That's the way it worked.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:44
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Arist posted:You keep going into all these deep complexities of the portrayal but they don't ever actually address any of the points I'm making. The issue is that Superman's portrayal is an inherent negative. He is defined to the audience primarily by his failures and even in the face of success by his boredom, selfishness, and lack of empathy. BvS doesn't solely portray Superman as an inherent negative. Yes, the film weighs in heavily on the existence of a Superman, and whether or not he's a benefit to mankind, sure. But that's not a strictly negative portrayal of the character; it's a conflicted one. Like I've said, the tone of film focuses more on the negative aspects in order for the narrative crux to hit harder. In my opinion, he's more so defined and presented to the audience as a conflict, making you — the moviegoer — question whether or not "The Superman" really is a messenger of hope or if he's dangerous. I'm not sure where you're pulling Clark being bored, selfish, or having a lack of empathy from. He clearly wants to help people, and the movie even has a montage of him doing Superman things. Maybe you're confusing boredom/selfishness/lack of empathy with him being conflicted? There's a difference. But again, yes, the film focuses more on the one side of humanity's perspective towards Superman that's blinded by xenophobic judgement. The film does offer a bit of contrast, but as in real life, the more vocal party is typically the one with a negative opinion. quote:"Contrast?" Contrast with what? BvS doesn't even give Clark a definable loving point of view. I have a problem with Superman because he's not a character, not because the portrayal was too nuanced or whatever the hell you're trying to blame this on. BvS' themes have contrasting ideas of "Superman is a monument, a beacon of hope, and a savior for all mankind." and "Superman is liability, an alien with limitless power who acts unilaterally, and is a potential threat to mankind." That's honestly what makes the film interesting to me.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:47
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I'm sure the Justice League trailer is great but I'm not watching it on my phone for the first time but it's once again hilarious that all you people can do is go back to arguing about BvS again instead. Old dumb habits die hard I guess. And of course nobody is saying anything new, it's all the same bullshit you all say every time. When are you going to learn none of you on either side are going to persuade the other side?
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Jul 22, 2017 22:51
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They started it, dad
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Jul 22, 2017 22:53
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You guys are really easy to kick off.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:55
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Justice League trailer looks fun. I mostly enjoyed the previous DCEU movies (except for Suicide Squad, which I thought was pretty weak - I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet). I'm sort of disappointed they're going straight to Apokolips and Darkseid (because I think Lex Luthor and the Injustice Gang are better foils for the Justice League) but of course it makes perfect sense that they would; that's their biggest villain, after all.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:55
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X-O posted:I'm sure the Justice League trailer is great but I'm not watching it on my phone for the first time but it's once again hilarious that all you people can do is go back to arguing about BvS again instead. Old dumb habits die hard I guess. And of course nobody is saying anything new, it's all the same bullshit you all say every time. When are you going to learn none of you on either side are going to persuade the other side? I've personally acknowledged why some people might have an issue with how Superman is portrayed in BvS, and totally get it. Some goons just don't want to acknowledge or understand why I hold my different opinion to theirs, even when I'm going out of my way to express it in a civil manner  I'll stop talking about BvS now and focus on JL again, cross-posting from CineD.WB/DC drawing inspiration from Alex Ross for JL marketing was a good move:  Beautiful.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:57
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Arist posted:Let's just ignore the last page of discussion about how the movie fails to present these things properly. I dunno what to tell you man, maybe try actually watching the movie? There's plenty of reason to see why the populace see him as an inspirational figure, not the very least of which is that he saved earth from Doomsday. The ending of BvS is literally tons of people gathering to mourn his passing. It's all text in the movie, and it's hardly the movies fault you can't parse this. Sorry
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Jul 22, 2017 22:57
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On a more positive note, the trailer has me hype as gently caress. Heavy emphasis on Wonder Woman, which is understandable, and I get the impression that Bats and WW will be the focus of the movie, but I'm really hoping everyone gets a chance to shine.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:59
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Part of me thinks WB/DC, Johns, and whoever else involved with building out the DCEU wanted to do Flashpoint for the "solo" Flash movie just so we get more Gadot 
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Jul 22, 2017 23:01
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I can't wait for all these movies because 1. I like them and 2. I know they piss a lot of nerds and critics off.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:03
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That Flash costume is horrible.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:05
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Endless Mike posted:That Flash costume is horrible. Looks a lot better next to Cyborg though.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:06
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I will say this, I don't think they quite got the BOOM of the boomtubes right. Hopefully they'll have that changed.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:06
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They chose Flashpoint because it was an event that made a bunch of money and has a bunch of notoriety about it. That's easier than just doing a Flash story. And that's the problem with a significant part of the DCEU. They're rushing to tell EVENTS in the comics sense, not build these characters up from the ground up.* Flashpoint. The Death of Superman. Justice League War. I'm half expecting the plot of Green Lantern Corps to be Blackest Knight. These things as movies aren't a bad idea, but at the point they're coming out, are bad choices to build a franchise off of. * - Wonder Woman being the exception
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Jul 22, 2017 23:07
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teagone posted:I've personally acknowledged why some people might have an issue with how Superman is portrayed in BvS, and totally get it. Some goons just don't want to acknowledge or understand why I hold my different opinion to theirs, even when I'm going out of my way to express it in a civil manner The picture posted last page with an actual Alex Ross filter makes it look real good.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:08
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McCloud posted:I dunno what to tell you man, maybe try actually watching the movie? There's plenty of reason to see why the populace see him as an inspirational figure, not the very least of which is that he saved earth from Doomsday. The ending of BvS is literally tons of people gathering to mourn his passing. It's all text in the movie, and it's hardly the movies fault you can't parse this. Sorry lol it's great when people make patronizing posts like this while completely missing a point i have made abundantly clear multiple times but i'm done arguing this
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Jul 22, 2017 23:10
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TFRazorsaw posted:They chose Flashpoint because it was an event that made a bunch of money and has a bunch of notoriety about it. Of all things, I'd point to Marvel's Netflix of Jessica Jones as perhaps the best way to do this. Jessica Jones the series is clearly based on Alias, but it's adapted to make sense for the world as currently established in the MCU. It changes very significantly in a lot of ways, but keeps the central characters and themes, and executes them well. The DCEU could still be good, but it feels... overeager, perhaps? Man of Steel and Wonder Woman at least let the characters breathe and explore their world a bit without rushing off to the Next Big Event.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:11
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I mean Flashpoint could just be a name right? It's not actually confirmed that they're doing the actual Flashpoint is it? I think that would be a bit premature.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:13
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