|
Krinkle posted:Where does one go from here? If this is my gateway drug, what's my freebase next logical step? I'd point you toward either Dungeon World or Shadow of the Demon Lord, depending on how crunchy you like your games.
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:We have some of them right now. https://www.dndbeyond.com/ The core books aren't part of the subscription, you have to pay $30 for the books and the tiers break down as; Free- all the classes and races from the PHB, 3 Character Slots $3 a Month- 6 character slots, access to home brew $6 a Month- ability to create home brew and the ability to share purchased content with 12 other accounts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
admanb posted:5E is a perfectly good version of D&D. It's just that D&D has pretty much always been an incoherent mess of a system except for 4E which was coherent, but not D&D. Simply incredible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The core books aren't part of the subscription, you have to pay $30 for the books and the tiers break down as; Thanks for the correction. Though I recall it was 20 or 25 fro the supplement books and adventures.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
People keep saying 5e is accessible to newcomers but when I first opened a book to make a character vast swaths of character creation were straight up missing from that chapter and I had to either jump around in the book or guess. Like the rest of 5e it presupposes familiarity with the product and invites you to fill in the blanks yourself. Which is the opposite of newbie friendly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 02:57
|
|
|
Serf posted:Simply incredible. Incredible good, like "this chocolate icecream is incredible," or incredible bad, like "I cannot believe someone could possibly be that incredibly misinformed and incorrect?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
Reene posted:People keep saying 5e is accessible to newcomers but when I first opened a book to make a character vast swaths of character creation were straight up missing from that chapter and I had to either jump around in the book or guess. You sure they went step by step at the start of the book.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
Are they sure of their own actions...? Excuse me?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 03:32
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Are they sure of their own actions...? Nothing was missing from what I checked of step by step character creation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 03:44
|
|
|
Reene posted:People keep saying 5e is accessible to newcomers but when I first opened a book to make a character vast swaths of character creation were straight up missing from that chapter and I had to either jump around in the book or guess. You have to look in the class chapter for class info, oh no.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 04:09
|
|
|
Yes but do you know how pronouns and theory of mind work? Edit : ^^^^^ You know that only makes sense if you already know how to play D&D and have Stockholm Syndrome, right? Like, I remember teaching myself 2E as a kid and that poo poo was not loving easy, and they haven't done a good job of making it easier. Clarity is the lowest bar to expect out of writing. Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jul 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
Krinkle posted:Where does one go from here? If this is my gateway drug, what's my freebase next logical step? If you haven't really played anything yet, but you want to start with D&D for a myriad of reasons that I won't argue about, then yeah, go play D&D. Once you've done that, try to think about what you liked and didn't like about D&D and come back to us. D&D is sort of middle-of-the-road (hot take!) when it comes to the hobby, so you can't exactly say where else on the spectrum you should go to next. Reene posted:People keep saying 5e is accessible to newcomers but when I first opened a book to make a character vast swaths of character creation were straight up missing from that chapter and I had to either jump around in the book or guess. I agree. The step-by-step process is straightforward enough, but it also takes long enough and involves enough page-flipping that I wouldn't encourage first-time players to try doing it that way. Not unless you were playing for at least three hours and don't mind spending a third of that just going through character creation. Like, this isn't a problem unique to 5e, but you either pick a game with character creation so short that you can be up and running in 15 minutes or less, or you provide pregens and just let players "edit" their characters later on. I've been very lucky with my games on here where people are largely familiar with the game already and character creation is just pre-game "homework", but in every instance that I've had to introduce the hobby to complete newbies I've always had to default to a simpler game because I could not give a single poo poo about asking someone to browse through a Wizard's level 1 spells - and if I'm going to pick for them, might as well go whole-hog.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 07:53
|
|
|
You can have long chargen that isn't poo poo, just make it long because there's a group element to it, or because you're doing something creative as part of chargen. Like, chargen should be fun, to be frank. Making a character should be rad as hell. It's not, because it's 90% math and homework, but it doesn't need to be that way. I'm not holding it up as the greatest game ever or w/e, but consider most modern renditions of FATE, where the vast majority of chargen is making your aspects. That's not just fine, it's rad as hell, because chargen isn't math and homework, it's making your backstory. And usually there's one aspect you make alongside others in the party, which is even better, because now they're getting to know your character a little before you start the game. They have history together. I mean, look. I've spent way longer then would ever be necessary with 4e's cbuilder, but most of that isn't because I enjoy the math but rather just making a character. It's not that 4e character building was cool, it's that the cbuilder made it easy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 10:07
|
|
|
Libertad! posted:One of the larger things I'll recommend is that the current Challenge Rating rules are feelz over realz. The ideal is a single monster of CR X will be an easy challenge for a party of four level X PCs. But there's literally no mention of adjusting encounters for multiple monsters, or having ones of variant CRs (boss monster and minions). Also, monster HP is very inflated. When even CR 3 monsters are averaging around 60 to 90 HP and your best damage source is a likely 4d6 spell and "at-will" basic attacks may be 2d6 plus Strength mod at most, combats will take very long unless you lower HP for enemies across the board. Also this is a good link/rules solution for this: They released an updated version of encounter building poo poo as well: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/encounter-building It's somewhat of an improvement. Krinkle posted:Where does one go from here? If this is my gateway drug, what's my freebase next logical step? I like Lindybeige but he's being a bit of a silly goose in that video. Try Hill Folk, by all means, but it's very much an acquired taste. As for what to try next, I dunno, what kind of games/genres are you interested in? There are system for everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 11:05
|
|
|
Megazver posted:They released an updated version of encounter building poo poo as well: Yes, these are a better set of guidelines for encounter building. I should know: I beat them to it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 11:26
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 11:31
|
|
|
Anyone got any tips on good poo poo to read for a Feywild campaign? I kind of want to run one at some point and I'd love any useful/interesting poo poo to get my cogs spinning.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 11:37
|
|
|
The Wormskin zine perhaps? And all the 4E material, of course.
Megazver fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Jul 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 11:43
|
|
|
Hello thread. I am DMing for the first time on Sunday! I'm a bit nervous, but I've been reading over the campaign and the multitude of DM advice threads on reddit. I'm a little annoyed the campaign book isn't as detailed as I would prefer, but I guess that's for me to flesh out with my own additions to the story. The previous DM was very generous to our party, but he wants to play now and asked me to take over for the 2nd book of this campaign (Rise of the dragons). I would like to run the game a bit closer to the rules, but I don't want to be a "no you can't do that" kind of DM. I'm going to try and find a balance where the game isn't easy mode like it has been, but not me just denying the party things and making it unfun. I'm also going to get everyone to send me their backstories as the previous DM didn't do much to try and incorporate them into the campaign.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 13:41
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:You sure they went step by step at the start of the book. I'm going to say maybe that he started off with the starter set? It leaves out a lot of details from character creation. But it also seems highly recommended that you play with one of the pregen characters if you are new to it, as it really cuts down on the complexity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
Charles Bukowski posted:Hello thread. I am DMing for the first time on Sunday! I'm a bit nervous, but I've been reading over the campaign and the multitude of DM advice threads on reddit. I'm a little annoyed the campaign book isn't as detailed as I would prefer, but I guess that's for me to flesh out with my own additions to the story. The previous DM was very generous to our party, but he wants to play now and asked me to take over for the 2nd book of this campaign (Rise of the dragons). I would like to run the game a bit closer to the rules, but I don't want to be a "no you can't do that" kind of DM. I'm going to try and find a balance where the game isn't easy mode like it has been, but not me just denying the party things and making it unfun. I'm also going to get everyone to send me their backstories as the previous DM didn't do much to try and incorporate them into the campaign. Let me give you some huge advice that I feel is vitally important for anyone who is running 5e: There is virtue in some games adhering closely to the rules. If a game has been well tested and balanced, tweaked and adjusted to work, where homebrews and changes can change the player expectations, you want to stick closely to rules. When players have an expectation of certain outcomes, where they have optimized for those rules and know the system because the system is predictable, because it has been thoroughly tested and designed mindfully, you can stick carefully to the rules. 5e is not this game. 5e is not well tested. 5e is not precisely adjusted. 5e is not mindfully developed so that everything works and nothing can be changed without the cards coming down. Do not try to run 5e "as closely to the rules as possible" as a first time DM. Doing so will slow the game down, it will force you to refer constantly to rules, and it will bring immediately to your attention that in most cases the kinds of questions a DM would refer to the handbook to resolve are the kinds of questions the handbook for 5e answers with "ask your DM." Instead, if a player wants to do something, they should at least try. Think about how difficult it is, and assign an appropriate DC. For assigning a DM, 5 is trivial, 10 is average, 15 is difficult, 20 is very difficult, 25 is nearly impossible, and 30 is "a god might pull it off." Then go with it. If your players want to do something, give them the option. Don't get weird with sticking to the rules because the rules in 5e are not some kind of immutable precision machine that bending will potentially screw up. The rules in 5e are arbitrary, and so as a DM your adherence to them can also be arbitrary. It's only when you follow it as immutable law that it will be a problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 14:48
|
|
|
Dungeon world sounds interesting but I worry about losing the mental jumping off points that i'm using as a crutch to be creative. Whether it's a list of backgrounds to choose from, or a list of spells I can do, I like having the options and thinking about what I could do with them. I don't know much about dungeon world but starting from a blank page is scary. If character creation is just "okay, go create a character" I might spin my wheels and get nowhere, settling on a boring version of me. Maybe I have a hat now? Nobody wants to see that. On the other hand I don't know how crunchy I could go before I got bored with adding up dice to dice. Hitting things hard isn't usually what I enjoy doing. I prefer 5e to pathfinder, having briefly played the latter some months ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
Charles Bukowski posted:Hello thread. I am DMing for the first time on Sunday! I'm a bit nervous, but I've been reading over the campaign and the multitude of DM advice threads on reddit. I'm a little annoyed the campaign book isn't as detailed as I would prefer, but I guess that's for me to flesh out with my own additions to the story. The previous DM was very generous to our party, but he wants to play now and asked me to take over for the 2nd book of this campaign (Rise of the dragons). I would like to run the game a bit closer to the rules, but I don't want to be a "no you can't do that" kind of DM. I'm going to try and find a balance where the game isn't easy mode like it has been, but not me just denying the party things and making it unfun. I'm also going to get everyone to send me their backstories as the previous DM didn't do much to try and incorporate them into the campaign. If you want some general DMing advise, look up Matt Colville on Youtube. His videos never get stupidly long and he has some good insight one how do run stuff. As for the rules, just listen to Paramemetic. As for story advice, what I pretty much always do is come up with factions, governments, and personalities, come up with goals for them all, (short, medium and long term) and have them do what they would be doing if the PCs didn't exist. Just try and figure roughly how long various goals would take and keep track of it, so if the PCs just don't feel inspired to go do much of anything then things will start happening around them, and draw them in. I generally won't bother doing much more than writing down something like "The Tinker's Guild wants to put the new inventor out of business or get him to join, they will resort to murder if pushed too far".
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 15:39
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:Let me give you some huge advice that I feel is vitally important for anyone who is running 5e: Id addendum to this: If you find yourself wanting to use a DC of less than 10 (or equal), just let them do the thing. Personally if they have proficiency im letting them skip 15 unless the situation is tense or contested. (Expertise lets them skip even in duress). As much as the game tries to imply through mechanics: the characters arent poo poo farmers with a sword who can only do things at a coin flips chance. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jul 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 15:40
|
|
|
Krinkle posted:Dungeon world sounds interesting but I worry about losing the mental jumping off points that i'm using as a crutch to be creative. Whether it's a list of backgrounds to choose from, or a list of spells I can do, I like having the options and thinking about what I could do with them. I don't know much about dungeon world but starting from a blank page is scary. If character creation is just "okay, go create a character" I might spin my wheels and get nowhere, settling on a boring version of me. Maybe I have a hat now? Nobody wants to see that. Well for one people vastly overestimate the amount of blank space you should leave for a dungeon world game. The gm principal is to draw maps and then leave gaps open for players to fill in(Ie don't be rigid and controlling and let your players expand on the parts they find interesting.) Also a DW character can be created completely from circling options from a list down to the characters looks so it's way less of "starting from a blank page" than any D&D game
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
We are at the Amber Temple. We enter next session. Rip.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:You can have long chargen that isn't poo poo, just make it long because there's a group element to it, or because you're doing something creative as part of chargen. I agree with your post entirely, though your example is not for me. I hate making FATE characters. It's too open for me - I like more structure. Burning Wheel characters, though... now that game is like character building crack for me. More decision points, but each one is constrained. I've never had more fun making characters. I think it's part of how I look at games. FATE wants me to think of a concept and then pick the mechanical bits to make that work, whereas I like looking at the mechanical bits, seeing a cool combination and then working out "how can I make that combination happen within the constraints of the rules?" Burning Wheel does that very well, and so does D&D to some extent. It's a shame that making D&D characters without a character builder is just a chore (even with the builder, picking items in 4e was a disgusting garbage task).
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
Basic Burning Wheel was way too much for me but I really liked building a character in Mouse Guard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Charles Bukowski posted:Hello thread. I am DMing for the first time on Sunday! I'm a bit nervous, but I've been reading over the campaign and the multitude of DM advice threads on reddit. I'm a little annoyed the campaign book isn't as detailed as I would prefer, but I guess that's for me to flesh out with my own additions to the story. The previous DM was very generous to our party, but he wants to play now and asked me to take over for the 2nd book of this campaign (Rise of the dragons). I would like to run the game a bit closer to the rules, but I don't want to be a "no you can't do that" kind of DM. I'm going to try and find a balance where the game isn't easy mode like it has been, but not me just denying the party things and making it unfun. I'm also going to get everyone to send me their backstories as the previous DM didn't do much to try and incorporate them into the campaign. For fun games, as a player, you figure out what your players want. Rules are best thought of as "guidelines for fun." Maybe your players want to bend the rules to do something they want to do? Maybe they want what you what where the game is harder and stricter, some people prefer that. However, as mentioned, D&D 5e isn't really that. 3.5 or Pathfinder is the "we have rules for everything game." I don't like that. I don't find rolling dice to climb 10' over and over then falling 90' at the top and dying fun. I prefer the 13th Age style of gaming where poo poo keeps going forward. You make one roll and, if you fail, something bad happens like "you drop your dagger from 90' and it falls and breaks and is now useless." I mention this because 5e feels closer to this kind of gameplay than 3.5 or 4e. It's honestly why I got a hankering for 5e after getting tired of one fight taking 3+ hours to complete. Really just go with your gut, if you can think of a good reason to say no then do so. You're the GM, it's your job to establish the world and rules for your players. But if your pesky gnome grappler fighter has pinned two bad guys prone and is head butting them into the ground he's probably having a loving great time. Let him do it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:For assigning a DM, 5 is trivial, 10 is average, 15 is difficult, 20 is very difficult, 25 is nearly impossible, and 30 is "a god might pull it off." "drat dude, we had a DM 30 the other night. Our characters were dead before we'd even finished creating them!"
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
MMAgCh posted:I know it's just a typo, but the idea of DMs possessing graded difficulty/ability values is hilarious all the same. I missed that typo but I'm gonna keep it now and start threatening my players at the beginning of the session. "Roll for players to beat this DM. Ooof, a 13? Roll initiative."
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 19:25
|
|
|
I get to run Tomb of Horrors next week for my Adventurer's League table! Any advice besides making a big bold disclaimer at the start of the session that this is one of the very few modules in AL that can permanently gently caress over your character if you make a misstep?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
blastron posted:I get to run Tomb of Horrors next week for my Adventurer's League table! Any advice besides making a big bold disclaimer at the start of the session that this is one of the very few modules in AL that can permanently gently caress over your character if you make a misstep? Have them make more than one character and tell them not to get too clever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
blastron posted:I get to run Tomb of Horrors next week for my Adventurer's League table! Any advice besides making a big bold disclaimer at the start of the session that this is one of the very few modules in AL that can permanently gently caress over your character if you make a misstep? My advice: Call out sick.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
blastron posted:I get to run Tomb of Horrors next week for my Adventurer's League table! Any advice besides making a big bold disclaimer at the start of the session that this is one of the very few modules in AL that can permanently gently caress over your character if you make a misstep? Make sure you explain to your players that this is a series of bullshit puzzle rooms designed with lots of Gotchas and to take frequent rests as needed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 20:56
|
|
sleepy.eyes posted:If you want some general DMing advise, look up Matt Colville on Youtube. His videos never get stupidly long and he has some good insight one how do run stuff. Colville is the definition of "Do what I say, not what I do." His actual streamed sessions are extremely boring to watch. I was shocked at how low energy he is as a DM after watching basically every advice video he put out.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
D&D is not a great spectator sport, unless everyone involved is already a professional performer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
Charles Bukowski posted:Hello thread. I am DMing for the first time on Sunday! I'm a bit nervous, but I've been reading over the campaign and the multitude of DM advice threads on reddit. I'm a little annoyed the campaign book isn't as detailed as I would prefer, but I guess that's for me to flesh out with my own additions to the story. The previous DM was very generous to our party, but he wants to play now and asked me to take over for the 2nd book of this campaign (Rise of the dragons). I would like to run the game a bit closer to the rules, but I don't want to be a "no you can't do that" kind of DM. I'm going to try and find a balance where the game isn't easy mode like it has been, but not me just denying the party things and making it unfun. I'm also going to get everyone to send me their backstories as the previous DM didn't do much to try and incorporate them into the campaign. I think people have already got you covered w/r/t 5e and its ruleset. But let's talk about improvisation. One first time mistake a lot of DMs make is trying not to improvise, and not letting the players improvise. This is a sure way to have a Bad Time; any time a player's agency is questioned they will begin to have Less Fun, unless you are explicitly trying to play a tactical combat game, in which case maybe that's the expectation. The second mistake DMs make when it comes to player improvisation is saying yes, but then making it functional impossible. Like, setting the DC 30 or plain-ol' not setting a DC, letting a player roll, and then just telling them they've failed regardless of the outcome. This is the same thing as saying no, but with more steps. A particularly insidious version of this is the DM who says, okay, roll for it, but then makes you roll about six times between beginning and end the action. For example, "I want to swing on this rope" becomes, "make an athletics check to jump, an acrobatics check to hang on, a attack roll with disadvantage, and then.... etc" because the player will more than likely fail. Your best bet is to say yes to the idea and present the player with a simple cost or a single check. Costs can come in the form of actions (typically bonus actions or movement are best for this; taking away an action should be reserved for attack-equivalent actions), future disadvantage, hp loss (10% or less than their total, generally) or something more ephemeral. If the player's idea is just too outlandish for you ("I want to ride this dragon!") then let the player know that, and negotiate a compromise ("well you can't ride him but I'd let you hang on to his wing."). Another option is to let a player try something unusual in combat if they have Advantage, and require both rolls to hit in order to pull off whatever stunt they're driving for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 22:10
|
|
|
Mendrian posted:I think people have already got you covered w/r/t 5e and its ruleset. But let's talk about improvisation. The improvisation is a big one. If players find a way to poo poo all over a huge enemy encounter you spent hours on and make short work of it because they understood their powers, used the environment or something clever, roll with it. When I DM I have certain plot points I want players to hit with general ideas but enough freedom to have players make changes. Figure out DC checks before you even get them to roll and make them reasonable for the task. Also it's a good idea to think of multiple ways for players to accomplish the goals of your mission. "This door is the only way in" is kind of lovely, it'll happen, but try and think of two ways for players to accomplish most things (rather than "you failed your lock pick roll, that ends the quest good day"). Then be open to things you haven't thought of. All the combat advice is great here too. Combat Action RAW and followed to the letter end up being boring dice-rolls back and forth with no creativity. Why would I give up my action to kick over a table into an enemy when it will do 1D4 damage instead of just hitting him with my axe for D12? Instead you give up all your extra movement and weapon interaction to charge forward 10' and skill check athletics. Failure nothing except movement and interaction gone, success advantage on your attack.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
doctor 7 posted:The improvisation is a big one. If players find a way to poo poo all over a huge enemy encounter you spent hours on and make short work of it because they understood their powers, used the environment or something clever, roll with it. This. I played probably one of my most memorable sessions a few weeks ago where the DM's willingness to improvise made it what it was. Game tale time: We visited fantasy Alcatraz, where our Rogue-turned-Ranger did some time as part of his pre-campaign backstory. He went and visited an NPC inmate he knew so as to get some information for some personal/backstory-related quest he's working on. Turns out this inmate is planning an escape attempt, so he insisted the Ranger give him something weapon-like in exchange for the info: a shiv, dagger, anything. In typical murderhobo fashion, our Ranger didn't want to give away anything he had the remotest possibility of actually using, and since rebuilding away from Rogue after the revised Ranger came out, he decided he wouldn't miss a vial of fairly potent poison he had on him. One successful slight of hand check to pass it off unnoticed later, and the satisfied NPC coughed up the info. We learned that night from the ranger that the prison has an agreement with an adult white dragon who calls that area home. It tolerates their presence in exchange for tribute which takes the form of escapees for it to munch on. Since beefing up security a few years prior, tribute has been scarce, and the ranger told us the wardens will feed it misbehaving prisoners or even passers-by (meaning potentially us) on occasion to remain in the dragon's good graces. Of course, said dragon pays a visit to the prison asking for tribute while we're there. Guess which NPC had been misbehaving lately? I asked out of character "wait, is that the same guy you..." "oh crap, it is," and realization swept over the table. The dragon ate the prisoner in a single bite, and subsequently had a rather adverse reaction to its meal where it essentially turned into a malfunctioning ice dispenser. Then it began to turn on the prison wardens as they begged for forgiveness. The ranger told us in character why all of this was happening, so we immediately decided to cheese it, though the Wizard needed some time to re-gather his skeleton horde. Despite my Pass WIthout Trace helping him out, he flubbed his stealth check badly enough that a guard noticed us leaving. After turning a corner, we invis'd the ranger and had him go back to plant another vial of poison on said guard to hopefully redirect suspicion away from us. Smooth as sandpaper! So yeah, I think the DM either had a boss battle against the dragon planned for us, or more likely (since we were in really unfriendly territory) some kind of escape through the obligatory sewer dungeon or something. And we accidentally bypassed it all by being a bunch of cheap bastards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2017 00:18
|
|
