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maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004
seriously how does a magnet lose its magnetness

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curufinor
Apr 4, 2016

by Smythe

maskenfreiheit posted:

seriously how does a magnet lose its magnetness

ferromagnetization is a phase, like solid or liquid phases in water
actually physicists study ideal magnetization when they want to study phase transitions w/o actually studying real stuff (spin glasses, ising model, etc)

the metal goes away from the phase to the other phase
heat helps the process along

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

curufinor posted:

ferromagnetization is a phase, like solid or liquid phases in water
actually physicists study ideal magnetization when they want to study phase transitions w/o actually studying real stuff (spin glasses, ising model, etc)

the metal goes away from the phase to the other phase
heat helps the process along

so maybe being inside a 98.6° human is bad for the magnets? 🤔

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum

maskenfreiheit posted:

so maybe being inside a 98.6° human is bad for the magnets? 🤔
heat definitely doesn't help

Bunni-kat
May 25, 2010

Service Desk B-b-bunny...
How can-ca-caaaaan I
help-p-p-p you?

maskenfreiheit posted:

so maybe being inside a 98.6° human is bad for the magnets? 🤔

Nah, I'm sure it's fine.

Now, for those chips they're implanting, I'm assuming it's no different from the NFC chip in my debit card? Any estimates for time to failure in a use like this?

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse
Real cyborg implants range from poo poo like mine - you literally have to hold the programmer to my head and even if you stick me in a MRI to wipe it or manage to gently caress with the programming it just fails to an uncomfortable safe setting - to poo poo you can hack remotely from basically anywhere because they run pretty much Android and fail unsafe to boot.

By comparison sticking a magnet inside your finger is just kinda dumb and not a massive secfuck.

EDIT: I have a cyberskull.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVVTSXA0HTU

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum

Avenging_Mikon posted:

Nah, I'm sure it's fine.

Now, for those chips they're implanting, I'm assuming it's no different from the NFC chip in my debit card? Any estimates for time to failure in a use like this?
nfc isn't going to fail inside your body unless you are actually a mutant and grow callouses that block rf signals

it is potentially a secfuck, despite what Subjunctive believes, because reading nfc from a distance is a fun trick people like to do for fun, and sitting out in the parking lot of that building is way easier than hanging out at the international terminal at your airport why is this video 1080p but like 5fps

anthonypants fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jul 24, 2017

vOv
Feb 8, 2014

maskenfreiheit posted:

seriously how does a magnet lose its magnetness

any piece of iron will have a bunch of 'magnetic domains' (3d chunks where the magnetic field lines up) in it, it's just that generally they all point in random directions. in a magnet they point in the same direction. i guess that over time they slip out of alignment, and heat speeds up the process.


vOv fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jul 24, 2017

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum

vOv posted:

any piece of iron will have a bunch of 'magnetic domains' (3d chunks where the magnetic field lines up) in it, it's just that generally they all point in random directions. in a magnet they point in the same direction. i guess that over time they slip out of alignment, and heat speeds up the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlnZKSR73S0

curufinor
Apr 4, 2016

by Smythe

vOv posted:

any piece of iron will have a bunch of 'magnetic domains' (3d chunks where the magnetic field lines up) in it, it's just that generally they all point in random directions. in a magnet they point in the same direction. i guess that over time they slip out of alignment, and heat speeds up the process.



phase transitions have a discontinuity of some kind associated with them. they can get categorized into different categories depending on the nature of this discontinuity. in the familiar water->ice or phase transition, the density is discontinuous: such and such a density for water, then BAM ICE. that's called a first order phase transition

magnets are a second order phase transition. so as you heat it up the magnetization goes to zero at the curie temperature, but smoothly. however, the magnetic susceptability (derivative of magnetization) has the discontinuity (hence the name, second order). there are also related phenomena where the correlation decay with the system states gently caress up and hysteresis and all sorts of poo poo happen

hysteresis is basically the fancyass physics term for memory

so the way they are given to point in the same direction is you just whango a bigass magnet over them at the critical point (curie temp), then cool em back down. it's because ferromagnetism is a second order phase transition that the magnet can thereafter keep the state it's in

your spinny spinny hard drive works by doing that in a very very small manner, which is why if you boil your hard drives in molten salt they don't do hard drive stuff anymore. or you can get a way bigger magnet like the scary bald meth man in breaking bad and kill hdds that way

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010


so is "break room market" some kind of fancy dressed up investor storytime version of "vending machine"

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

ate all the Oreos posted:

so is "break room market" some kind of fancy dressed up investor storytime version of "vending machine"

picture the Togo meals from Suckerberg's cafeteria but you have to pay for them

it's basically the wall of refrigerated sandwiches from 7/11

Dodoman
Feb 26, 2009



A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret
Lipstick Apathy

endlessmonotony posted:

Real cyborg implants range from poo poo like mine - you literally have to hold the programmer to my head and even if you stick me in a MRI to wipe it or manage to gently caress with the programming it just fails to an uncomfortable safe setting - to poo poo you can hack remotely from basically anywhere because they run pretty much Android and fail unsafe to boot.

By comparison sticking a magnet inside your finger is just kinda dumb and not a massive secfuck.

EDIT: I have a cyberskull.

What happened to your 💀?

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


endlessmonotony posted:

Real cyborg implants range from poo poo like mine - you literally have to hold the programmer to my head and even if you stick me in a MRI to wipe it or manage to gently caress with the programming it just fails to an uncomfortable safe setting - to poo poo you can hack remotely from basically anywhere because they run pretty much Android and fail unsafe to boot.

By comparison sticking a magnet inside your finger is just kinda dumb and not a massive secfuck.

EDIT: I have a cyberskull.

do u have a skul gun?

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

maskenfreiheit posted:

so maybe being inside a 98.6° human is bad for the magnets? 🤔

getting slammed around a few hundred times a day because it's a tiny magnet in the fingertip of a touch typing nerd is probably a deciding factor

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


anthonypants posted:

nfc isn't going to fail inside your body unless you are actually a mutant and grow callouses that block rf signals

it is potentially a secfuck, despite what Subjunctive believes, because reading nfc from a distance is a fun trick people like to do for fun, and sitting out in the parking lot of that building is way easier than hanging out at the international terminal at your airport

the ones used in pets and other animals last multiple decades.

they also afaik are extremely simple inductively coupled devices with hard coded ID numbers and zero authentication. the inductive coupling makes it hard to overload and the simple data structure doesn't take a fancy chip that could be hiding fun security vulnerabilities.

maskenfreiheit posted:

I have a friend who's an employment loler lawyer I'll have to see if you can argue religious discrimination or something if they fire you for refusing

i suspect his response will be lol employment at will

nah. you can't even require employees to use biometrics like hard scanning for ID without running into religious discrimination issues. requiring an implant would be completely off limits.

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

Shifty Pony posted:

they also afaik are extremely simple inductively coupled devices with hard coded ID numbers and zero authentication. the inductive coupling makes it hard to overload and the simple data structure doesn't take a fancy chip that could be hiding fun security vulnerabilities.

yes my dog's name is Fido, 300 hundred letter js, then \x31\xc0\x50\x68\x2f\x2f\x73\x68\x68\x2f\x62\x69\x6e\x89\xe3\x50\x53\x89\xe1\xb0\x0b\xcd\x80

flakeloaf
Feb 26, 2003

Still better than android clock

Shifty Pony posted:

nah. you can't even require employees to use biometrics like hard scanning for ID without running into religious discrimination issues. requiring an implant would be completely off limits.

"looking at your hand with a computer is exactly the same as marking your hand with the sign of a metaphor for pagan faiths"
- a judgelawyer who finished school

the correct argument of "surrendering personal autonomy is not a prerequisite for employment in any sane situation", however, works just fine

flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jul 24, 2017

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you
Fun Shoe

By the sound of it the chip is just one of the RFID ones you put in your pet. Iirc the newer ones are clone proof, more or less, so there's no real security problem here, just every other loving thing with the idea is terrible.

Workaday Wizard
Oct 23, 2009

by Pragmatica

goddamnedtwisto posted:

By the sound of it the chip is just one of the RFID ones you put in your pet. Iirc the newer ones are clone proof, more or less, so there's no real security problem here, just every other loving thing with the idea is terrible.

what does clone proof mean?

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

what does clone proof mean?

probably has a challenge/response of some flavor with central verification so you can't just read it once and make a new one

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



mixture of write-once memory, challenge/response restricted memory and the restricted setting of the hardware itself so physical tampers aren't a real concern (re: cloning specifically)

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004

goddamnedtwisto posted:

By the sound of it the chip is just one of the RFID ones you put in your pet. Iirc the newer ones are clone proof, more or less, so there's no real security problem here, just every other loving thing with the idea is terrible.

does getting an infection from a piece of metal rubbing around count?

if a tiny hair in my taint can cause so many problems I can't see why metal couldn't also

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

aw the new guy at my office still thinks it's illegal to export public key cryptography with key lengths longer than 512 bits, that's adorable :allears:

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

maskenfreiheit posted:

does getting an infection from a piece of metal rubbing around count?

if a tiny hair in my taint can cause so many problems I can't see why metal couldn't also

yeah that's a good point I'm sure that nobody who works on chipping pets or wage slaves has ever thought about

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles


I don't get this. They're making a big deal about how they're baking the security features in to the core OS now so you don't need EMET, but its all process opt-in stuff. ASLR? Opt-in. SafeSEH? Opt-In. Control Flow Guard? Opt-in. DEP/Nx? Opt-in. SEHOP? Opt-in. Code signing? Opt-in. You're a gigantic company that prides itself of maintaining backwards compatibility with everything and devs suck rear end so this stuff isn't going to get used consistently outside of you and maybe a handful of shops. If this was Apple and you were willing to make a clean break and throw errors every time the old stuff tried to run then this would make sense but instead they loving up the security of their product for anyone who gives a drat and you don't need to look any further than that stupid FragRAT thing in the source engine last week to see something that would have been trivial to block with ASLR/DEP but noooooope not even Valve can consistently compile their poo poo with the right options.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles

Daman posted:

it's only deprecated in that patch because WD exploit guard reaches feature parity then, probably.

this is emet baked in by default which is a Good Thing

exploit guard is poo poo and leaves a massive gap. Microsoft are fuckers.

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat

ate all the Oreos posted:

aw the new guy at my office still thinks it's illegal to export public key cryptography with key lengths longer than 512 bits, that's adorable :allears:

in the 90s my dad took me to the bookstore with him to buy the PGP book with the source code in it because he thought it was important that encryption wasn't treated like munitions.

pr0zac
Jan 18, 2004

~*lukecagefan69*~


Pillbug

anthonypants posted:

nfc isn't going to fail inside your body unless you are actually a mutant and grow callouses that block rf signals

it is potentially a secfuck, despite what Subjunctive believes, because reading nfc from a distance is a fun trick people like to do for fun, and sitting out in the parking lot of that building is way easier than hanging out at the international terminal at your airport
why is this video 1080p but like 5fps

Did you really take Subjunctives joke quoting "it doesn't have GPS tracking" as a serious defense of the technology?

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

yeah, the joke is the guy's response in the article to "security concerns" was to blurt out "it doesn't have GPS tracking!" out of nowhere, as if that's the only possible problem

Bonfire Lit
Jul 9, 2008

If you're one of the sinners who caused this please unfriend me now.


just for the record, you can turn DEP on for all processes with bcdedit, either allowing processes to opt out (I think this may be the default setting on windows server?) or forcing it always on. don't think you can set any of the other settings you mentioned though

also the steam client is terrible so lmao at "not even valve"

Bonfire Lit fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jul 24, 2017

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles

Bonfire Lit posted:

just for the record, you can turn DEP on for all processes with bcdedit, either allowing processes to opt out (I think this may be the default setting on windows server?) or forcing it always on. don't think you can set any of the other settings you mentioned though

You can only put DEP in to Opt-Out mode with the native controls, which allows any of the processes to not use it, and a surprising amount of them do this in my experience. There aren't GPOs for this, the admin template for EMET is what gives you control of these settings, so you're manually flipping poo poo in the registry to do it. EMET also gives you an easy method to opt-in/opt-out specific features for security or compatibility issues. What they are giving you now makes you manually define a bit mask to control the features. It's a real bag of poo poo.

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


flakeloaf posted:

the correct argument of "surrendering personal autonomy is not a prerequisite for employment in any sane situation", however, works just fine

probably, but that's not legally protected whereas being a religious nutter is

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

anthonypants posted:

it is potentially a secfuck, despite what Subjunctive believes, because reading nfc from a distance is a fun trick people like to do for fun

wait what

how did I get involved in this?

A Pinball Wizard
Mar 23, 2005

I know every trick, no freak's gonna beat my hands

College Slice
lmao that 1. The company had a rebuttal ready to rules lawyer the Bible so ppl can use the scanner and 2. They thought it would make a difference to crazy fundies who already don't trust anyone but Pastor Rick down t'tha Bible college because something something of the world something something unequally yoked

Sereri
Sep 30, 2008

awwwrigami

flakeloaf posted:

yes my dog's name is Fido, 300 hundred letter js, then \x31\xc0\x50\x68\x2f\x2f\x73\x68\x68\x2f\x62\x69\x6e\x89\xe3\x50\x53\x89\xe1\xb0\x0b\xcd\x80

Who's a good boy? You are, ';drop database;-- ,you are!

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Sereri posted:

Who's a good boy? You are, ';drop database;-- ,you are!

i will never partition with you, *

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Hi my name is %s %s %s %s %s %s %s

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maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004
people often use pet names as passwords, which is bad due to low entropy

the obvious solution is to name your pet a long string consisting of uppercase letters, lowercase letters, numbers, and symbols

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