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fyi, i've done dozens of shatter matches solo this week, playing as bard. my solo queue win rate this week is like 45%. there are people, including goons, who will tell you that you can't do anything to affect the result in pvp by yourself. those people are full of poo poo. if you can get 10+ kills each match, and you should, that's a swing of hundreds of points just by yourself--and once the enemy zerg "breaks" and starts running, your team will rack up a shitton of kills while chasing.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:33
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Reiterpallasch posted:fyi, i've done dozens of shatter matches solo this week, playing as bard. my solo queue win rate this week is like 45%. And what would be your advice to someone queuing as a healer?
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Jul 25, 2017 00:39
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Mordiceius posted:And what would be your advice to someone queuing as a healer? Get a friend to queue with you. There isn't really anything you can do as a healer to force your team to kill the enemy team, best case is you can try to find a good dps and babysit them.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:40
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Ghost of Starman posted:Just dipped my toe into PvP for the first time; can someone explain what the hell is going on? FFXIV explains everything else meticulously (sometimes laboriously) but I got dumped into Fields of Glory without so much as a how-do-you-do. I'm reading the website now, so I get "control the big things, shatter the small ice things, kill dudes" but there was a lot to absorb while people were actively trying to murder me. In Fields of Glory (Shatter) the point is to be the first team to get 1600 points. Big Ice is worth 300 points, small ice is worth 70 points, and the points they give is split among the teams based on how much damage they did. Bases give 2 points every server tick which I'm pretty sure is 3 seconds, and they aren't usually worth worrying about unless they're being attacked right at the start of a match or when two or more teams are neck-and-neck. Kills steal points away from the team whose member you've killed and gives them to your team. If you get a killstreak going you'll enter a state of Battle High, where you build up Adrenaline (personal pvp limit break) faster but you are worth more points when killed. Always go with your group, if you get split up from them or are even somewhat too far ahead of them when you make contact with the other team(s) you're probably dead. If you have less than three healers on your entire team you're probably also still dead, but at least try to play carefully. Dark Knights in PvP can basically harpoon people towards themselves and that makes them extremely dangerous, and one DRK marking targets, then harpooning them in, can tear apart a dps faster than most rando healers (like me) can fatfinger that dps' alliance health bar and hit the "save this guy's life" button. So stay with your team and minimize the chances you'll be singled out as a target. If your team doesn't also follow these basic common-sense priorities you may also be hosed anyway: 1) Ice is considered the number one priority. Most games are won or lost by which team gets luckier small ice spawns and can capitalize on big ice spawns the fastest. Because the middle of the map has access to all of the large ice spawns, people generally cover mid. The only real exception is when you've got good healers and good enough dps in your team that you can just go ham on everybody in a straight fight. 2) While Ice is where the big points are at, if you get killed while going for ice, any contribution you might have on Ice damage has been effectively negated by you feeding points to the team that killed you. People have even posted result logs in this very thread of their teams wrecking people who were tunnel-visioning on ice so don't be one of those idiots. PvP is still fundamentally about killing other people. 3) If someone is shouting "base" it means someone is attacking base. But they probably don't realize that the base usually doesn't mean jack poo poo in Shatter and premades that go after someone's base are specifically trying to lure them away from Big Ice. The correct response, if someone calls "base" when there's big ice up, is "gently caress base, big ice is worth more." You can always recapture your base but you can't recapture big ice. 4) If your Shatter round spawns all of the small ices at once at the beginning of the match, it is appropriate to shout in Alliance chat "AW gently caress" and then tell everyone to go for the farthest small ice they can concievably reach. Early game advantage in this most uncommon spawn pattern is determined by how many small ices you can claim, and this means stealing ice that's closer to someone else's spawn.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:41
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Mordiceius posted:And what would be your advice to someone queuing as a healer? i swear to god i had it and lost it, but i have a screenshot of me getting battle fever on whm and pretty much holding down the empyrean rain button for the rest of the match more seriously: -- go with the flow. you're not going to win every game, and that's just how it is. as long as you didn't feed, there's nothing to be ashamed of as a healer -- HEAL THE OTHER ALLIANCES. every time you dump a cure 2 into a green dps who would've died otherwise, that's a swing of 10 points. most shatter games are won by 100-200 points. it doesn't take much to tip the scales. i understand that this is extremely stressful and involves a lot of frantic clicking, but it's really important -- take muse and sprint. you'll need muse to keep your mana up during forever wars in mid, and sprint is mandatory for escapes and chasing -- white mage is the best job for queueing solo as. obviously that's not super helpful if you're trying to level something else, but that's the breaks. protect + benison + c2 spam + bene lets you keep a tank up against the combined fury of an entire team, which is really useful because people tend to tunnel vision when trying to kill and will often put themselves in bad positions for your team to exploit. -- also, stone 3 is by far the best of the healer nukes in shatter -- always look for a chance to limp mounted enemies during chases -- on the flip side, if your team has broken and is being chased, don't run around like a stupid chicken. hang behind the frontline and delay the enemy team by healing your allies as they're being chased down. by healing the sacrificial lambs, you'll save like a dozen deaths by yourself, which is a huge point swing that now doesn't happen
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Jul 25, 2017 00:46
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Oh also, PvP gives you exp based on what class you end the match in, not what class you played the match in. I powerleveled SAM by healing as an AST. When a team got 1200 points, I broke off from fighting/healing people and Returned to spawn, then switched classes. In a pinch, getting killed also works, especially if you're already down three hundred points in which case you're already done by that point anyway. I say this because playing a melee dps in PvP feels, to me, feels like an exercise in futility compared to being a bard, mech, drk, or healer.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:47
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wow, someone else chimed in with the "actually, kills don't matter, only go for ice" hot take while i was typing that up! i ask of you, who are you going to believe, the guy making the correctly capitalized, non-hyperbolic, grounded posts, or the guy who spends all his time throwing firebombs into this thread?
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Jul 25, 2017 00:47
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wait, gently caress
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Jul 25, 2017 00:48
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Don't worry fam, we all go for kills here.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:48
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Is there any real way to heal the other alliances on controller? I don't think there is but I learned how to cycle targets in enmity list order only a few weeks ago and I've been playing since 2.1 so it's very possible I missed something
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Jul 25, 2017 00:49
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RIP PvP Broil 
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Jul 25, 2017 00:51
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Even if taking ice was how you got 90% of your points, attacking the enemy team would be really good, because dead dudes can't get objectives.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:53
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cheetah7071 posted:Is there any real way to heal the other alliances on controller? I don't think there is but I learned how to cycle targets in enmity list order only a few weeks ago and I've been playing since 2.1 so it's very possible I missed something A click filter might work, but..yeah.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:56
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I played my first pvp match last night, ended up being the only survivor of a failed team fight with nowhere to run so I quickly typed YOU DIDN'T WIN into Say chat and jumped off a cliff to my death
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Jul 25, 2017 00:56
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Can we all at least agree that the bases are almost irrelevant?
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Jul 25, 2017 00:57
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oh yeah, i have no idea how you'd heal effectively with a controller, that sounds loving rough
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Jul 25, 2017 00:57
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The most satisfying pvp I've had is the feast as a healer with exactly one cohealer. Just the right balance of health bar whackamole with time to dps a bit if I play well, with an observable ability to influence the course of the match in a way that just doesn't happen in frontlines unless you're very very good
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Jul 25, 2017 00:59
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TheRagamuffin posted:Can we all at least agree that the bases are almost irrelevant? If one team owns all of the bases for more than 3 minutes something has gone very, very wrong. They're not THAT irrelevant.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:00
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I can't imagine healing with a controller, but I've got an FC mate who does.TheRagamuffin posted:Can we all at least agree that the bases are almost irrelevant? Hell yes.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:01
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the bases aren't irrelevant. not that sitting afk on your base to "guard" it is ever a good use of your time, but there's two cases in which it's very relevant 1) an enemy full party, either a premade or just an 8-stack of bots who chased and got lucky (this is way more common than it sounds) is sitting on your base in the earlygame and camping it. as long as they're they're, they'll kill your respawns as they autorun out of base. they need to be cleared out ASAP or else they'll just farm like 300 points off you, while preventing your reinforcements from getting to mid. generally speaking, all this means is that the third party wins (since the base raiders will inevitably all die themselves and give up points, and they're not contributing to their own team in the meantime), but that's not much consolation to you 2) in the case where one enemy team is completely out of the running and the other teams are close to winning--like adders 1200, mael 1100, flames 400--it's often the best move to take the zerg onto the enemy base and spawn camp them. you farm a shitton of points off them, while completely preventing them from getting any ice points.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:01
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Reiterpallasch posted:the bases aren't irrelevant. not that sitting afk on your base to "guard" it is ever a good use of your time, but there's two cases in which it's very relevant Actually, that's a good point. I'm going to soften my "Hell yes" to a "usually yeah."
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Jul 25, 2017 01:03
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Xarbala posted:I can't imagine healing with a controller, but I've got an FC mate who does. Healing your own party is fine and easy, it's just alliances that are an issue (and SMN pets but gently caress them).
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Jul 25, 2017 01:04
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I asked my FC mate how he heals other alliances in pvp: "d pad, and I changed the filter settings to where it skips enemies and non alliance/party members I target enemies with the L1/R1 buttons which you can do when when holding down L@ or R2 it's not as usefull as I'd like since it's essientially just a seperate tab target cycle"
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Jul 25, 2017 01:07
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Going back to clear out base invaders is also basically free points if they're stupid enough to stick around, usually more than negating however many points they siphoned off of you. Also taking another team's base can be a really effective distraction tactic.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:09
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Xarbala posted:I asked my FC mate how he heals other alliances in pvp: I'll keep in mind that it's possible but I don't think I'm gonna relearn all my muscle memory just to be better at a game mode I don't even like that much In 24-mans you can heal the MT (which is all you need to do 90% of the time) by doing target of target on the boss
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Jul 25, 2017 01:11
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VHGS posted:Even if taking ice was how you got 90% of your points, attacking the enemy team would be really good, because dead dudes can't get objectives. The worst is that ice takes reduced damage from magic. If you're a mage, you should REALLY be hitting another teams healers hard during ice skirmishes. Build up for your burst on ice if you must, but never use it on ice if theres someone around you can just smite out of existence. Mage LBs perfectly centered on ice also make me extremely salty. At least position it so the ice just gets clipped, but aim for the masses of one team. TheRagamuffin posted:Can we all at least agree that the bases are almost irrelevant? No. Bases are pretty relevant. Not necessarily in the terms of their point generation, but if a small contingency of opposing players are around your base, your teams respawning players are being routed through longer paths(meaning less players at the larger battles so your side just gets ground in to meat) or eating deaths by marching single file through your captured base if not just flat out spawn camped. And the inverse is true, if you get a few people to capture a base you can mulch those single files for your own point gains. They don't require the whole alliance to abandon the front to recapture though, and the small ice around the base doesn't need more than a few people beating on them either if they spawn later. Skaw fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 01:15
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cheetah7071 posted:I'll keep in mind that it's possible but I don't think I'm gonna relearn all my muscle memory just to be better at a game mode I don't even like that much This is fair
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Jul 25, 2017 01:16
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Who wants to be my PvP buddy? You get to kill to your hearts content and I'll be your dedicated healbot.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:22
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for the record, i love healing in shatter, but players i know--people with experience healing the hardest savage fights in the game, people who are probably better at it than i'll ever be--think it's way too stressful and loving hate doing it. it's a hard-knocks life. commend your healers.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:35
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Reiterpallasch posted:for the record, i love healing in shatter, but players i know--people with experience healing the hardest savage fights in the game, people who are probably better at it than i'll ever be--think it's way too stressful and loving hate doing it. it's a hard-knocks life. commend your healers. not an emptyquote Pvp healers are always in triage mode and saving someone from getting ganked takes split-second decision making, so don't take it personally if we can't save you if you get succ'd That said, healing pvp is one of the times where I genuinely feel excited to play frontlines
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Jul 25, 2017 01:44
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Captain Oblivious posted:Set up your hotbars, figure out your traits and extra actions, THEN PvP. Oh yeah, thank goodness I ducked into the Wolves' Den before trying Frontlines; I would've been even more lost. Is Fields of Glory the only mode that people queue for? Or is it just the fastest so its the ones all the bots run endlessly? (also thank you for mentioning the bots; that explains all the weird nonsense getting posted in chat; presumably them communicating/coordinating something) Edit: forgot to say "thank you" for all the good PvP feedback & explanations. 
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Jul 25, 2017 01:51
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PS: the secret to pvp healing is to stop giving a poo poo. Not in the nihilistic nothing-matters sort of way, but if you can't save Leeroy McKamikazeface the RDM from his third dive in thirty seconds you shouldn't beat yourself up about it. It's healthier that way.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:52
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Freaksaus posted:I love this server, and the dumb things people are willing to do. What's the headpiece the green lala on the left has?
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Jul 25, 2017 02:00
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nuru posted:What's the headpiece the green lala on the left has? It looks like the normal beech mask you can buy from lvl60 vendors.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:11
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What's a good OT DRK opener? I've been doing something like this: http://ffxivrotations.com/wsw Exact usage of the blood spenders might be a GCD off, since that's just based on memory. Mostly I'm wondering about whether it's worth delaying Carve and Spit by a couple GCDs to wait for Slashing Debuff or delaying even more for Trick Attack.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:12
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Xarbala posted:It looks like the normal beech mask you can buy from lvl60 vendors. ed: Ah, you're right.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:13
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Reiterpallasch posted:wow, someone else chimed in with the "actually, kills don't matter, only go for ice" hot take while i was typing that up! the latter because they have learned that capitalization is the enemy of efficient posting, obviously
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Jul 25, 2017 02:30
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Also thanks to the goons who had my BLM rear end along for O1S attempts, it surprisingly seems easier to do on BLM than I would have first thought from looking at videos. The odd missed F3 here and there but nothing nasty. Was kinda fun.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:30
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Reiterpallasch posted:a) gently caress if i'm going to remember to add esuna back to my bar every time i queue into something where i need it I stopped using it since the only thing where you "need" it is o4n (and even then you can just raise swiftcast the dead if the other healer is also lazy/forgets) and I've never once missed it in like two weeks i don't think there is even anything else you can esuna in all of the current level 70 content
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Jul 25, 2017 02:40
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Is Regula certainly dead? I know we saw a body but it feels like nobody dies in FFXIV.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:46
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