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Jul 25, 2017 01:34
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Here's one for hey gal
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Jul 25, 2017 01:34
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https://twitter.com/wellerstein/status/889590760282173440 Nifty
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Jul 25, 2017 01:43
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GotLag posted:Hadn't the Soviets already run out of men by the end of the war? Not really, no. There's a bunch of dodgy stats around this (e.g. the claims that 80+ percent of russian men died in the war). There's some anecdotal stuff about the soviets shuffling troops around but that could be for any number of reasons. There was no significant fall in the number of personnel. EDIT: I mean it wasn't like recruiting all those men didn't force the Soviets into a number of trade-offs - allowing women to join, allowing ethnic minorities to join, recruiting men from territories outside of prewar USSR... But I don't think things were particularly worse in 1945 vs previous years. Glantz makes the point about rates of recruitments of minorities falling in the later years of the war, which suggests the government is more able to choose not to recruit men they suspected to be politically unreliable. http://www.fordhamscholarship.com/view/10.5422/fordham/9780823239771.001.0001/upso-9780823239771-chapter-8 Fangz fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 01:45
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A good lesson from WWII is to never underestimate the USSR's ability to pull divisions out of thin air.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:48
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Alan Smithee posted:basic bitch question I could potentially answer from reading wiki but gently caress that: what were the implications of Dunkirk, were the troop numbers essential to the war effort ahead? If the evactuation failed how would things have differed? Had Dunkirk failed and nobody returned to England, the British Army would've been out 350 thousand men, ten percent of their total number of men in service throughout the war.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:15
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And it was a genuinely large morale boost; plucky little Britain facing down Germany and a conquered continent does become less likely if the BEF had been wiped out. Not to say that Britain negotiates peace or anything like that without Dunkirk, but it's easy to look back on the war and say of course the allies were going to win. Ask a Briton and a German in summer 1940 and you'd likely hear some "wrong" opinions.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:52
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My ancestor was captured at Little Round Top and died of the shits at Point Lookout's prison camp. Lots of fun. But my ancestor was also a filthy Confederate, so that could have changed his perspective of Gettysburg.
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Jul 25, 2017 03:07
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Also spitfires had multiple tanks even from the first version, mk1 cockpits have two fuel gauges, whereas the mk 5 swapped it out to one gauge + plate stating theres a reserve tank (top tank)
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Jul 25, 2017 03:09
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So Roland Emmerich is making a Midway film I will simultaneously watch and really hate.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:40
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wdarkk posted:So Roland Emmerich is making a Midway film I will simultaneously watch and really hate. I know too much about the real battle to possibly enjoy any movie made about it.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:42
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Whatever happened to that Tom Hanks series on B-17s with a swarm of Messerschmidt's as thick as the Egyptian plague of locusts?
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Jul 25, 2017 04:45
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Had Dunkirk failed and nobody returned to England, the British Army would've been out 350 thousand men, ten percent of their total number of men in service throughout the war. How would the Germans have dealt with that many POWs? And how would the soldiers have dealt with being POWs?
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Jul 25, 2017 04:55
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Cythereal posted:I know too much about the real battle to possibly enjoy any movie made about it. This is exactly my position. If I'm lucky I'll get a matinee on the second week so nobody can hear me boo and swear at the screen.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:56
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Safety Biscuits posted:How would the Germans have dealt with that many POWs? And how would the soldiers have dealt with being POWs? If they are lucky, they get transported to POW camps with "decent" living conditions. If not, well, you start to see the same thing they did to the Russians. As for dealing with it, I'd imagine you'd have soldiers of all types. Maybe some will despair, while others will attempt to break out of the various camps and join the resistance. Others might give in to fight communism and join the British Legion. 
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Jul 25, 2017 05:04
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Cythereal posted:I know too much about the real battle to possibly enjoy any movie made about it. wdarkk posted:This is exactly my position. If I'm lucky I'll get a matinee on the second week so nobody can hear me boo and swear at the screen. I'm suddenly genuinely curious--would you have a similar reaction to older movies that also covered single battles, like Tora, Tora, Tora! or The Longest Day (or, outside of WWII, Gettysburg)? I'm not trying to be trolling or anything, just that the Big Battle Epic isn't a new genre and Hollywood's always had a questionable relationship with historical accuracy when it comes to filming them.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:04
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Davin Valkri posted:I'm suddenly genuinely curious--would you have a similar reaction to older movies that also covered single battles, like Tora, Tora, Tora! or The Longest Day (or, outside of WWII, Gettysburg)? I'm not trying to be trolling or anything, just that the Big Battle Epic isn't a new genre and Hollywood's always had a questionable relationship with historical accuracy when it comes to filming them. It's more that Midway and Pacific stuff is kind of my thing and there's been a fair amount of really great scholarship lately. I could probably forgive a movie written before Shattered Sword was published, but any movie in future dystopia year 2017 has to be held to the standards of its time, which are pretty high.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:08
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Jobbo_Fett posted:If they are lucky, they get transported to POW camps with "decent" living conditions. If not, well, you start to see the same thing they did to the Russians. British POWs get treated like royalty until Hitler decides that there's no chance of a peaceful settlement in Western Europe. Then the gloves come off and the Brits end up at forced labor.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:34
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wdarkk posted:It's more that Midway and Pacific stuff is kind of my thing and there's been a fair amount of really great scholarship lately. I could probably forgive a movie written before Shattered Sword was published, but any movie in future dystopia year 2017 has to be held to the standards of its time, which are pretty high. I bet the only thing he'll hold to is Dick Best's wing's bombing run on the Akagi. And hoo boy will it be a doozy of a fx shot.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:47
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FAUXTON posted:I bet the only thing he'll hold to is Dick Best's wing's bombing run on the Akagi. And hoo boy will it be a doozy of a fx shot. To be fair I will instantly forgive the movie if they actually call him "Dick Best" a few times.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:49
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Fangz posted:How realistic are the ship sinkings in that film? The ships depicted seem to list or sink very quickly (within a few minutes) after single Heinkel bomb hits or torpedo hits. Is that realistic? I haven't seen the film, so I can't speak to its particular sequences, but I've been doing a day-by-day ship sinkings post in Grey Hunter's War in the Pacific LP and come across quite a few destroyers and other small warships that went down within minutes of taking a bomb or torpedo. Those ships are small enough or stressed enough that a single unlucky hit can be catastrophic. Those cases usually seem to claim two-thirds or more of the crew, too. 
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Jul 25, 2017 09:36
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RC and Moon Pie posted:My ancestor was captured at Little Round Top and died of the shits at Point Lookout's prison camp.
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Jul 25, 2017 10:14
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When did people stop dying of the shits in wars anyway?
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Jul 25, 2017 10:39
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Siivola posted:When did people stop dying of the shits in wars anyway?
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Jul 25, 2017 10:49
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Siivola posted:When did people stop dying of the shits in wars anyway? World War I tends to get mentioned a lot, when discussing the point in history where you get more deaths from combat than disease.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:11
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Fangz posted:Some Dunkirk questions: I haven't seen the film but a ship sinking depends on what kind of ship, where the bomb hit, and the size of the bomb. The Lancastria sank and claimed more lives than the combined losses of the RMS Titanic (1,517 passengers and crew) and RMS Lusitania (1,198 passengers) from one bomb that hit would have hit a wamp rat when it went straight down the funnel. A non-military ship being hit by a torpedo will ruin it's day, though then you get ships like the SS Ohio where... quote:The convoy entered Gibraltar in heavy fog on 10 August. A day later, four torpedoes from the German submarine U-73 sank the aircraft-carrier HMS Eagle, killing 260 men, and losing all but four planes. On this day, German bombers attacked the convoy.[10] On 12 August twenty Junkers 88s attacked the convoy, while a further combined strike by 100 German and Italian Regia Aeronautica planes attacked the merchantmen. It was during the ensuing mayhem that the tanker was torpedoed by the Italian submarine Axum[11] and caught fire. Ohio seemed to be out of control. Captain Mason ordered the engines to be shut down, with all deckhands available fighting the fire with the deck waterlines. Lighted kerosene bubbled up from the fractured tanks, while little gouts of flame spattered the deck to a distance of thirty yards from the blaze. Fortunately, the flames were put out and the tanker managed thirteen knots after being repaired. Then the ship gets re-manned, another bomb hits it, gets abandoned again, re-manned, more near misses and finally Spitfires come and save the day which would end it as any hollywood movie should. They have to dodge more uboats and eboats, avoid sailing into a minefield and the entire population of Malta cames out and cheers them in. Why the hell isn't THAT a movie! Deepwater Horizon, eat your heart out! quote:What AA capability did they actually have on the beach? The film mostly depicts just people trying to fire upwards with rifles. They had 40mm Bofers - there's German military pictures taken of the ruins showing them, along with ones blown up before the BEF escaped.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:23
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Ships, like humans, can take ridiculous amounts of damage if they get hit in non critical spots, but crumple if hit in the wrong place. Like you can die if punched in the solar plexus, but a bullet can pass through your brain and cause only mild neurological damage.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:49
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It certainly explains my posts.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:50
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Comstar posted:I haven't seen the film but a ship sinking depends on what kind of ship, where the bomb hit, and the size of the bomb. The Lancastria sank and claimed more lives than the combined losses of the RMS Titanic (1,517 passengers and crew) and RMS Lusitania (1,198 passengers) from one bomb that hit would have hit a wamp rat when it went straight down the funnel. Geez, with a series of bombing like that, it sounds like an explosion-fest worthy of Michael Bay.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:54
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Oh, I know a couple! Have you heard? A red army soldier runs through the street, yelling "Brezhnev is an idiot, Brezhnev is an idiot!" They gave him 25 years. 5 for disturbing public order, and 20 for revealing a state secret A train is traveling through the USSR carrying a young lady, an old hag, a Russian soldier and a czechoslovak(or whoever you want to be the protagonist). Suddenly the light goes out as the cabin passes through a tunnel, a smack and a loud slap can be heard. As the light comes on, a burning red hand print can be seen on the Russians face! Each of the travelers think their own about the sitauation: The babushka thinks "what cheek of that Russian! The young maiden was right to defend her virtue." The Russian thinks "smart guy, that Czech! Kissing the girl and letting me take the heat." The girl thinks "How gross! Why would he kiss an old grandmother on the train?" and the Czech thinks "drat, what a score, kissing my hand and getting to punch out a Russian!" I got a lot more if people are interested, I used to collect.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:24
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Yes. ^^^
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Jul 25, 2017 13:55
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OneTruePecos posted:Leaving the lice aside, and I know it's played out, but can we talk about this bullshit for just a minute: German allows you to simply write all your words together without spaces where English would require you to use hyphens. Efficient.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:20
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wdarkk posted:It's more that Midway and Pacific stuff is kind of my thing and there's been a fair amount of really great scholarship lately. I could probably forgive a movie written before Shattered Sword was published, but any movie in future dystopia year 2017 has to be held to the standards of its time, which are pretty high. I'm in the same position, and especially my conclusion with modern scholarship and a better understanding of the Pacific Theater is that Midway just isn't that interesting of a battle. What makes Midway interesting to me is the strategic concept leading into the battle, the strategic ramifications it had afterwards, and how the IJN reacted to the defeat. Midway itself, though, isn't that complicated and is somewhat undercut by not only there being no particularly dramatic moment of failure like the Five Fateful Minutes myth but also that the Americans could easily afforded to have lost the battle - the IJN's planned amphibious invasion of the islands would very likely have failed and taking Midway would only have hurt Japan rather than helped it. A huge epic movie about a battle that was a strategic farce on the IJN's part and one of the great strategic military blunders of modern war (I'm referring to the whole Operation MI here and its aims) for an objective that even if they had taken it would have only made Japan's position worse and more vulnerable and in and of itself affected very little of the overall strategies and balances of forces between Japan and America just isn't something that grabs my interest these days. Davin Valkri posted:I'm suddenly genuinely curious--would you have a similar reaction to older movies that also covered single battles, like Tora, Tora, Tora! or The Longest Day (or, outside of WWII, Gettysburg)? I'm not trying to be trolling or anything, just that the Big Battle Epic isn't a new genre and Hollywood's always had a questionable relationship with historical accuracy when it comes to filming them. As a rule, I don't enjoy Big Battle Epic movies. Real life battles and wars don't come with pre-packaged convenient Hollywood storylines, and the course of history is always the first thing to be jettisoned. Now, a Big Battle Epic movie about Taffy 3 that stays reasonably historically accurate? Now that, I might go see.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:27
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Safety Biscuits posted:How would the Germans have dealt with that many POWs? And how would the soldiers have dealt with being POWs? The number of people captured in France was comparable in scope to some of the bigger Kessels in the early days of Barbarossa, and they did manage to supply those without great loss of life. Different logistic and operational circumstances ofc, but it's possible to see what can be done if feeding and keeping alive the pows is an objective. I have the numbers of brits and US soldiers that died in German pow camps in one of my monographies about russian pows, and they're vanishingly tiny (also the mortality per capita) compared to the massive pile of dead russians. Don't forget that they got red cross parcells too. 44-45 wasn't easy on the pows, but it was pretty likely that as a western ally, one would make it out alive in various conditions, but surely not overweight.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:28
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Saint Celestine posted:Yes. ^^^ Can't find my books  Fortunately, I remember a great deal of them.Have you heard? Comrade Stalin is in heaven. What!? How on earth can that be? He uses the suppliers entrance! A pole has his watch stolen. He consults the local police commissariat, who asks him to explain how it happened. "Two Swiss soldiers stole my Russian watch!" "Hardly," answers the incredulous constable, "don't you mean two Russian soldiers stole your Swiss watch?" "Yes, but you said that, not me." Some are anti-semitic, but often have a bit of tongue-in-cheek to them anyway: A new rabbi is needed for the head synagogue in Moscow. The party ward leaders examine all applicants, but send them all home. Their boss, exasperated, asks them why they haven't found any. "Well," they reply, "we had three really good applicants, but they couldn't work out. The first was a not a learned rabbi, so we had to let him go. The second was a learned rabbi, but not a member of the party, and naturally we couldnt' hire him then." "Well," asks the ward leader, "what about the third?" "A drat shame. He was not only a very learned rabbinic scholar, and a member of the glorious communist party, but unfortunately he was a jew. Husak is dead. The party convenes to arrange the state burial, but run into a snag: No holy man in the country wants to give him last rites! At long last, the head Rabbi of Prague agrees to bury him. There is great rejoicing, but suddenly one of the party members leap to his feet, saying "We can't do that! the last guy you people took care of came back from the dead!" E: and a couple I've heard from others, the above are in my books. Honecker goes out on his balcony in the morning. It is a beautiful dawn, and the sun smiles at him, saying "Hallo, lieber Erich!" (hello, dear Erich.) It becomes midday. The sun is still out, and greets Honecker, saying "Hallo, lieber Erich" again. Erich is touched, who would have thought the sun was such a big fan of his rule? It becomes noon, and the sun is now beyond the wall in the west, but shines magnificiently still. It is silent. Honecker asks "Why are we not talking any more, comrade sun?" The sun turns and replies, "gently caress you Erich, I've escaped to the West now.. This one is from my dad, who loves telling it when he's in his cups: A Russian, an American and a rural Dane( we're from Denmark, it can be changed to any group) sits on a train, and after a bit of drink, the Russian and American starts arguing about whose military is more impressive. "If all our planes take flight", boasts the American, "you cannot see the sky." The others are suitably impressed, but then the Russian rumbles back. "This is all well and good, but if all our subs come to the surface, it is impossible to see the sea." The Dane suddenly chimes in, saying "Well, I know I guy in the city of Køge, who has a 2 metre long dick!" The American and Russian fall silent, their faces red. The Dane called their bluff with his preposterous story, humbling their immature braggadocio. "Well", admits the American, "perhaps some of the sky is visible when our planes are up, anything else would be impossible." "Da," follows the Russian, "you can see the sea, though we do have many submarines." The Dane nods wisely, answering, "Perhaps, he lived a bit outside of Køge." Tias fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 14:30
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GotLag posted:Hadn't the Soviets already run out of men by the end of the war? The Soviets (like pretty much everyone outside of the US) were certainly hitting their manpower limits by the end of the war - they certainly still had a bunch of people under arms in May '45 but replacing losses or expanding the army at that point was going to be a pretty big problem. Siivola posted:When did people stop dying of the shits in wars anyway? Yemen is in the throes of one of the worst cholera epidemics in recent history so
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Jul 25, 2017 14:39
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War. War never changes. 
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Jul 25, 2017 14:48
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Kemper Boyd posted:World War I tends to get mentioned a lot, when discussing the point in history where you get more deaths from combat than disease. Even there the 1919 flu killed more people than the war did.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:55
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It has always baffled me how armies in the Civil War pretty much completely ignored issues of disease and cleanliness. They absolutely understood that gross camp conditions bred disease, but leaders generally refused to do anything about it and instead just accepted that 8% or so of their force would die of the shits or the cough. This is particularly irritating to me given the desperate cries by leaders on both sides for MORE MEN, WE NEED MORE MEN.
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Jul 25, 2017 15:01
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| # ? May 25, 2024 06:43 |
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https://www.amazon.com/David%20M.%2...&qid=1500988894 As a heads up the Kindle version of some of Glantz' books are going for crazy cheap. Same for Forczyk's Schwerpunkt. Also, they've got The Grand Fleet by some Jellicoe chap. What sort of scholarship is recommended in order to approach it properly as a historical artifact rather than taking its claims at face value? 
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Jul 25, 2017 15:09
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