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WampaLord posted:So, how did Jeremy Corbyn's unexpected success happen then? Surely if there were a massive social media conspiracy to suppress (presumably leftist) votes, Theresa May would have won overwhelmingly. From what I understand, CA worked on Brexit and '16. I haven't heard anything about them working on May's snap election. I wouldn't even say that dark advertising is "fixing" elections, it's just another hard-to-trace mechanism for influence that may get more popular over time.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:54
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WampaLord posted:So how did they manage to spend money to push Brexit and voter suppression through social media? Dark money on behalf of Brexit was probably channeled through the DUP: https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/you-aren-t-allowed-to-know-who-paid-for-key-leave-campaign-adverts
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Jul 25, 2017 16:58
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Pembroke Fuse posted:I think he means Cambridge Analytica and their dark advertising/voter suppression campaign on Facebook. They also worked with the Brexit side. Maybe Clinton shouldn't have said the racist comment in the first place?
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Jul 25, 2017 17:17
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JFairfax posted:it's called a farm A farm is more of a work camp. A zoo is closer to jail, IMO.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:21
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fallenturtle posted:A farm is more of a work camp. A zoo is closer to jail, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2PLHk4IXqE Monkey borstal
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Jul 25, 2017 17:24
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Pewdiepie has gently caress you money at this point and doesnt care anymore if they call him alt-right Has Pewdiepie expressed any alt-right opinions other than wanting to make offensive jokes?
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Jul 25, 2017 17:25
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fallenturtle posted:Has Pewdiepie expressed any alt-right opinions other than wanting to make offensive jokes? "Death to all Jews" is a pretty alt-right opinion, and I don't accept his "It's just a joke, bro!" defense.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:28
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MiddleOne posted:Youtube incrementally starts filtering out channels you are subscribed to but never watch from your feed so not many I'd venture. I've never subscribed to a channel because youtube throws all that stuff onto my YT home page based on what I've been watching.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:28
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WampaLord posted:"Death to all Jews" is a pretty alt-right opinion, and I don't accept his "It's just a joke, bro!" defense. I accept it. I've watched the video and its total edgelord poo poo. I don't think he's anti-semetic, the presentation and his reaction reads "prank" and not "I secretly hate the Jews."
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Jul 25, 2017 17:36
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fallenturtle posted:I accept it. I've watched the video and its total edgelord poo poo. I don't think he's anti-semetic, the presentation and his reaction reads "prank" and not "I secretly hate the Jews." Jokes can be anti-Semitic.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:37
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fallenturtle posted:I accept it. I've watched the video and its total edgelord poo poo. I don't think he's anti-semetic, the presentation and his reaction reads "prank" and not "I secretly hate the Jews." There's a million other things he could have put there to be "edgy" without specifically calling for death to all Jews. I calls em like I sees em.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:41
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Okay, you are right, but pretend I said "appealing" instead of "true". Your false dichotomy is still ridiculous to me - obviously appeals to emotions and fears and all that are powerful and dangerous and all that, but that doesn't mean the only options are to wither and die to the unfettered spread of white supremacy or prevent white supremacists from posting on mainstream video platforms entirely. I think the former is overstated and engaging the public sphere on the same level(ala chapo) is the actual deterrent that blocking them from youtube, adding to their put-upon narrative while handing the reins to tech giants, will never be. I think I used the word "appealing" specifically. There are two problems with this counter-argument: 1) I think leftists narratives are often at a serious disadvantage to right-wing ones because they require some greater level of intelligence/diligence to understand. Right-wing arguments have been around for centuries simply because they're so much easier to consume. They're like the entropy of thinking. I don't think Chapo is enough of a counterweight. 2) We've already handed the reins to tech giants. There are no serious alternatives to Facebook, Youtube and Twitter. The only thing we can do is fight it out in the space they've created and one way to do that is to enforce basic community guidelines (no calls for violence, racial slurs, etc). Community guidelines keep communities alive and functioning and actually allow "the discourse" to function more or less as intended (see SA).
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Jul 25, 2017 17:53
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fallenturtle posted:I accept it. I've watched the video and its total edgelord poo poo. I don't think he's anti-semetic, the presentation and his reaction reads "prank" and not "I secretly hate the Jews." Lindsey Ellis talks at length about edgy humor in relation to Mel Brooks here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cPPSyoQkE There are a few takeaways: humor has a point and a target. It carries its own meaning beyond being humor. Jokes meant to denigrate or re-enforce stereotypes actually denigrate and re-enforce stereotypes. Also, these days it's really easy to just hide behind the idea that "it's just jokes, chill man" while calling for actual, full-throated genocide. This is the "black-friend" defence on steroids.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:57
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How is "Gas the Jews" supposed to be funny, anyway. Explain exactly what makes it hilarious to you, fallenturtle.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:59
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Who What Now posted:Jokes can be anti-Semitic. Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:01
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Maybe Clinton shouldn't have said the racist comment in the first place? Probably not, but there are problems with the "if you've done nothing wrong, why worry" argument. 1) Clinton recanted and apologized for using those words, but I'm sure that bit never made it into the CA ad: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/aug/28/reince-priebus/did-hillary-clinton-call-african-american-youth-su/ 2) These are dark ads. They are targeted at specific groups and not seen by the general public. This doesn't give the person being smeared or misrepresented a chance to respond or even understand that an attack has been levelled against them. It's more difficult to hold advertising to account for truthfulness or accuracy if you don't even know advertising is taking place.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:03
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fallenturtle posted:Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic. We can't know their inner life, we can only know their words and actions, which are anti-semitic.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:04
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fallenturtle posted:Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic. True, but once you've told enough anti-Semitic, racist and sexist "jokes", a pattern about your character begins to emerge. This is like the induction problem: how many racist jokes are required to generalize about your character? These days: not loving many.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:05
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Who What Now posted:How is "Gas the Jews" supposed to be funny, anyway. Explain exactly what makes it hilarious to you, fallenturtle.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:06
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fallenturtle posted:Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic. Ah, the "If he wasn't actually killing Jews while yelling 'I am killing you because you are Jewish and I loving hate Jews,' then it's okay!" defense. You're right, I cannot peer into Felix's heart and determine if he actually hates Jewish people. I can only look at his actions, which have shown hatred for Jews and inspired others to express their own hatred of Jews and determine that it's loving unacceptable.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:06
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fallenturtle posted:Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic. People are anti-Semitic when they do anti-Semitic things. Like tell anti-Semitic jokes
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Jul 25, 2017 18:08
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WampaLord posted:Ah, the "If he wasn't actually killing Jews while yelling 'I am killing you because you are Jewish and I loving hate Jews,' then it's okay!" defense. But that's unfair! You're judging him for the things he does and says, guess you don't like free speech after all? 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:09
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Mr Interweb posted:Here's an interesting article from the AV Club about South Park's role in creating the alt-right: I watched south park from the start and i'm not alt-right
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Jul 25, 2017 18:10
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fallenturtle posted:Yes. Doesn't always mean the person is actually anti-Semitic. What would you call someone who tells a lot of jokes like "What do you call three dead niggers? A good start!" Because I'd call that person a racist. And by extension, someone who tells anti-Semitic jokes would be...?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:11
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WampaLord posted:There's a million other things he could have put there to be "edgy" without specifically calling for death to all Jews. I calls em like I sees em. Sure there are, but he went with that one. Does it matter? If he made a joke about rape, people would accuse him of being pro-rape. If the joke was racist he'd be accused of being racist. I'm calling it like I see it too. I think he's guilty of being foolish and insensitive.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:11
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fallenturtle posted:I accept it. I've watched the video and its total edgelord poo poo. I don't think he's anti-semetic, the presentation and his reaction reads "prank" and not "I secretly hate the Jews." there was literally an infinite number of things he could have had written on that sign other than 'death do all jews' lol
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Jul 25, 2017 18:12
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fallenturtle posted:Sure there are, but he went with that one. Does it matter? YES Yes, it loving matters. How could it not? Do you not get that calling for genocide of a people is bad?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:14
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Lindsey Ellis talks at length about edgy humor in relation to Mel Brooks here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cPPSyoQkE That's a good video, I watched it a few weeks ago.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:14
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fallenturtle posted:Sure there are, but he went with that one. Does it matter? If he made a joke about rape, people would accuse him of being pro-rape. Have you not seen his videos? They are pretty much nothing but rape jokes. And he was rightfully called out on them until he stopped doing them (for a time).
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Jul 25, 2017 18:17
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Who What Now posted:How is "Gas the Jews" supposed to be funny, anyway. Explain exactly what makes it hilarious to you, fallenturtle. What are you talking about? When did I say I find these jokes funny, Who What Now?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:18
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lindsay ellis is a voice of reason in a sea of madness, yes and as such, im genuinely surprised she hasn't been driven off the internet. is she just used to all the abuse, as an internet veteran, or is there something she does differently? fallenturtle posted:What are you talking about? When did I say I find these jokes funny, Who What Now? 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:19
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fallenturtle posted:What are you talking about? When did I say I find these jokes funny, Who What Now? Here watch this relevant video by the best goon ever rise to a position of some prominence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjNILjFters
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Jul 25, 2017 18:20
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fallenturtle posted:Sure there are, but he went with that one. Does it matter? If he made a joke about rape, people would accuse him of being pro-rape. If the joke was racist he'd be accused of being racist. If you want nuance, you could say that at best he is an white supremacist enabler, even if he isn't himself a white supremacist. Enablers generally contribute to a cause without perhaps believing in it wholeheartedly. Lots of British historians in the 50's whitewashed Stalin without really understanding or believing in all of his policies. They were enablers. Many of them were also honest enough to leave the communist party after the 1956 invasion, but I doubt PDP is anywhere near that intellectually competent.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:21
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I go to bat for Nazis not because I agree with them you guys
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Jul 25, 2017 18:21
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Kjoery posted:lindsay ellis is a voice of reason in a sea of madness, yes She has a Patreon and I give her money. We should all give her some if we think her content matters. 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:24
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WampaLord posted:YES quote:Do you not get that calling for genocide of a people is bad? Of course... but I weigh statements differently based on whether or not they are a comment or a tasteless joke.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:35
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Pembroke Fuse posted:I think I used the word "appealing" specifically. There are two problems with this counter-argument: It has more to do with lefty causes almost always having the requirement of self-indictment. Every last left leaning position comes with some form of either societal status-quo indictment or personal self-indictment. I'm not railing against this, it is necessary for true societal/personal health, but think about how hard that is to sell vs right-wing boilerplating. Infinitely harder, especially in a capitalist system that worships at the altar of Self.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:37
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fallenturtle posted:What are you talking about? When did I say I find these jokes funny, Who What Now? You said it's clearly a joke. Jokes are supposed to be funny. Explain why it's funny. fallenturtle posted:Because I think what he was going for was not that he specifically wanted to say something anti-Semitic but that he wanted to say something that he thought was funny because of it being outrageously shocking. Admittedly I haven't watched more than a few of videos (and most were related to this event), but has he said anti-Semitic things in passing and not in jest? Why can't people who tell jokes be bigots?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:38
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Who What Now posted:Have you not seen his videos? They are pretty much nothing but rape jokes. And he was rightfully called out on them until he stopped doing them (for a time). Pewdiepie's? No, I haven't seen his rape joke videos.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:39
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fallenturtle posted:Because I think what he was going for was not that he specifically wanted to say something anti-Semitic but that he wanted to say something that he thought was funny because of it being outrageously shocking. And again, there's a million other "outrageously shocking" things he could say that don't call for genocide. How about "Fiverr is a scam company filled with sheep fuckers?" since the whole point of the "prank" was to show that Fiverr is bad, right? fallenturtle posted:Of course... but I weigh statements differently based on whether or not they are a comment or a tasteless joke. It doesn't matter. If you make racist jokes, that's bad, full stop.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:40
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