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TheScott2K posted:They accurately depicted the visual strangeness of a military uniform transition period! But it doesn't make sense in a world where you can just replicate the new uniform instantly.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:11
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WampaLord posted:But it doesn't make sense in a world where you can just replicate the new uniform instantly. Some of them didn't want to throw out perfectly good uniforms that they preferred.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:15
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vermin posted:What would Discovery's version of Ferengi look like? The Klingons but with bigger ears.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:36
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remusclaw posted:The Klingons but with bigger ears. Their outfits are made of millions of tiny embroidered ears that don't show up on camera.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:39
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I was a little off actually and thinking about the JJ Trek Klingons, who to my eye already look kind of like small eared Ferengi in the makeup department.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:40
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TheScott2K posted:Their outfits are made of millions of tiny embroidered ears that don't show up on camera. Too real, man.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:49
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Jeb! Repetition posted:"As I observe Lol learning about her world, I share in her experience, almost as though I am learning things over again." "As we observe Jeb! viewing the episodes, we all share in that experience, almost as though we are viewing them over again for the first time." Many have already said this, but I like your real-time hot takes on the episode you're watching.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:53
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Gaz-L posted:In reality, i think the earring thing was supposed to be just a fashion thing in the early Ro episodes, and then DS9 filled it out to basically be the equivalent of a crucifix, yarmulke or turban from a religious standpoint It's pretty clearly depicted as a Bajoran religious/cultural accoutrement in the episode "Ensign Ro". All the other Bajorans depicted are wearing one, even the children in the refugee camp and the terrorist with half his face melted off. It doesn't really make sense that Starfleet wouldn't have issued a "Sikh turban" cultural exception uniform rule for Bajorans, especially since we know that they had a policy of going out of their way to recruit Bajorans as part of a long-term goal of getting Bajor into the Federation. Riker was just being a dick.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:55
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shadok posted:It's pretty clearly depicted as a Bajoran religious/cultural accoutrement in the episode "Ensign Ro". All the other Bajorans depicted are wearing one, even the children in the refugee camp and the terrorist with half his face melted off. It doesn't really make sense that Starfleet wouldn't have issued a "Sikh turban" cultural exception uniform rule for Bajorans, especially since we know that they had a policy of going out of their way to recruit Bajorans as part of a long-term goal of getting Bajor into the Federation. Riker was just being a dick. Bajorans were still rare in the federation. Maybe Riker didn't know. He was still a dick about it I guess but he was just sexually frustrated by Ro generally
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Jul 25, 2017 17:58
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Powered Descent posted:"As we observe Jeb! viewing the episodes, we all share in that experience, almost as though we are viewing them over again for the first time." Ditto, especially as I'm doing my own watch through and I'm only a dozen or so episodes ahead That Lal episode was bonkers. And it was too creepy for me to find any of it emotional
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Jul 25, 2017 18:06
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:
Sounds like you need to go re-watch Measure of a Man The only thing about the Lal episode that gets me is the terrible, terrible Andorian getups
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Jul 25, 2017 18:08
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I'm watching Chain of Command and I tried to take a screenshot of Gul Lemec, a cool member of the Cardassian race, using print screen and ms paint, but somehow i can't upload it and the file seems corrupted although it shows up just fine in paint itself. Does netflix have some kind of baked in anti-screenshot measure for ridiculously overzealous copyright reasons?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:09
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Shibawanko posted:I'm watching Chain of Command and I tried to take a screenshot of Gul Lemec, a cool member of the Cardassian race, using print screen and ms paint, but somehow i can't upload it and the file seems corrupted although it shows up just fine in paint itself. Does netflix have some kind of baked in anti-screenshot measure for ridiculously overzealous copyright reasons? Use the Snipping Tool. 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:10
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The Bloop posted:Sounds like you need to go re-watch Measure of a Man A fave and for good reason, but I didn't care for Lal. I guess the episode explored some excellent themes though. Maybe it was meant to be creepy to underscore one of those very themes
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Jul 25, 2017 18:11
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The Bloop posted:Sounds like you need to go re-watch Measure of a Man One of Enterprise few contributions is making andorians cool and look better while not straying too far from their classic design. It's just a bunch of minor makeup improvements and deciding andorian women don't all have weird giant hair or massive cone heads. But it's not a massive re-design that goes in some totally different direction. Andorians are actually probably one of the most consistent aliens in trek, the TOS andorians look pretty close to Enterprise Andorians. TOS   Movies  Compared with ENT   But what the gently caress was this poo poo  This is just TNG loving up. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 18:11
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Powered Descent posted:"As we observe Jeb! viewing the episodes, we all share in that experience, almost as though we are viewing them over again for the first time." There are some doozies coming up: "Sins of the Father", "Captain's Holiday", "Tin Man", "Hollow Pursuits", "The Most Toys", "Sarek", and of course the season 3 finale. Most people don't really rate "Tin Man" but it's actually one of my personal favourite TNG episodes, maybe tied for favourite with "The Inner Light". shadok fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 18:22
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Well, this one's cheating.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:39
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Sir Lemming posted:Well, this one's cheating. 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:42
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Does every humanoid species have a chimpanzee phase in their evolution? I'm trying to imagine a blue white haired chimp with antennae. Thinking about Barclay's spider-chimp ancestor
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Jul 25, 2017 18:42
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Jul 25, 2017 18:46
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Where's my Star Trek 4X game dammit
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Jul 25, 2017 18:48
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vermin posted:Where's my Star Trek 4X game dammit
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Jul 25, 2017 18:51
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vermin posted:Where's my Star Trek 4X game dammit There's Birth of the Federation. If you want something more recent, then you've got the Star Trek mod for Stellaris.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:53
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vermin posted:Where's my Star Trek 4X game dammit  It was bad
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Jul 25, 2017 18:53
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Stellaris Trek mod is in the top five of Star Trek games. I really hope they finish it well and it doesn't get torn apart by modding drama or some poo poo before then.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:58
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Grand Fromage posted:Stellaris Trek mod is in the top five of Star Trek games. I really hope they finish it well and it doesn't get torn apart by modding drama or some poo poo before then. -Large iconian gates added to every planet. Any attempts to remove will result in legal action.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:59
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Now I'm imagining Amplitude style intros for all of the major powers. The only question is whose uses more fascist/authoritarian imagery: The Dominion or Cardassia?
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Jul 25, 2017 19:00
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remusclaw posted:I was a little off actually and thinking about the JJ Trek Klingons, who to my eye already look kind of like small eared Ferengi in the makeup department. Lmao the lapels of a warrior!
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Jul 25, 2017 19:07
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I wish we got to actually see the dominion in DS9 at all. I think it would have been interesting to show it mostly as a federation-like utopia with most worlds being pretty unaware of the the war and minding their own business. You mind your own business, you contribute what is asked, you obey the founders, and life is good. Dominion membership could be seen as a huge step up for a lot of worlds, you join up and your lovely world is elevated into a post-scarcity utopia and they only ask for minor reasonable contributions. I'd imagine the dominion is a lot more flexible too, a brutal dictatorship joins up? Sure you can remain that way. A democratic paradise joins up? Sure, just don't vote to leave the dominion and you can carry on. The founders are only paranoid about order, and the dominion was pitched as a mirror to the federation rather than a mostly single-species empire like we usually see. I wish they had explored that a bit and shown that you don't always need a brutal oppressive dystopia to keep order, that a technocratic paradise can be quite alluring as well.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:15
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Baronjutter posted:-Large iconian gates added to every planet. Any attempts to remove will result in legal action. It fits the canon even though literally everything says it doesn't and I will die on this hill goddammit!
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Jul 25, 2017 19:20
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Baronjutter posted:I wish we got to actually see the dominion in DS9 at all. I think it would have been interesting to show it mostly as a federation-like utopia with most worlds being pretty unaware of the the war and minding their own business. You mind your own business, you contribute what is asked, you obey the founders, and life is good. Dominion membership could be seen as a huge step up for a lot of worlds, you join up and your lovely world is elevated into a post-scarcity utopia and they only ask for minor reasonable contributions. I'd imagine the dominion is a lot more flexible too, a brutal dictatorship joins up? Sure you can remain that way. A democratic paradise joins up? Sure, just don't vote to leave the dominion and you can carry on. I too wish Star Trek would show us the positive aspects of fascism 
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Jul 25, 2017 19:41
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Baronjutter posted:
There was a Let's Play of this a few months ago, but it seems to have been abandoned mid-game. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3816663
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Jul 25, 2017 19:46
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Drone posted:I too wish Star Trek would show us the positive aspects of fascism I see his point, though. The original concept of the Dominion was that, being a mirror of the Federation, they were an opponent of the Federation ideologically as much militarily. Each side would've had the basic same existence, the same utopia-if-you-don't-look-too-hard, the same deep-seated sense that the other guy is Doing It Wrong.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:53
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Powered Descent posted:There was a Let's Play of this a few months ago, but it seems to have been abandoned mid-game. And a completed one a few years ago. https://lparchive.org/Star-Trek-Birth-of-the-Federation/
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Jul 25, 2017 19:54
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We got a little bit of Dominion life with the Karrema (who really should have been more episodes), but the Founders live in a weird flesh ocean and the Vorta and Jem'Hadar don't really seem to have homeworlds per se. I got the impression that the Founders preferred their pet solids to be unsophisticated and distracted. They don't seem to have shared their advanced technology with their subject worlds, but they didn't mind playing into their indulgences. The Hunters, Move Along Home Larpers, and probably some of the other Gamma Quadrant races we saw early on had likely had their societies reshaped into a more "harmless" form by the Founders at some point in their past.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:55
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Drone posted:I too wish Star Trek would show us the positive aspects of fascism Well, they could also show that promise being empty when everything goes to poo poo as the Dominion has to war with a force that is their equal like pretty much the whole Alpha Quadrant.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:01
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Yeah the Dominion worlds seem pretty much free to do whatever they would like, as long as they also follow whatever rules and give tribute to the Founders. Although I suppose it is also very possible that those are the worlds that the Dominion allowed the Federation to have contact with, to ease them towards a cultural assimilation down the line.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:12
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I think they decided to focus on the Vorta and Jem'hadar for makeup reasons as much as anything else. This gives you a clear image of who the Dominion guys are (Jem'hadar, Vorta, all changelings not played by Rene Auberjonois; later, Cardies) without requiring them to make a shitload of one-off weirdo makeups and also taking care to make each one distinct. From what we see, the Dominion did not seem to keep a tight watch but they also probably had no reason to do so. They were the most powerful space-nation in their quadrant. Probably the entire galaxy. Isn't it subtly indicated that on their home turf, they could fight off the Borg? They had anticipated meeting the Federation in a few centuries, when presumably the Federation would have been much larger and on better footing with them; as it was, only the fact of their single barricade-able supply line gave the feds a chance. Also it would be very easy for Changelings to sneak into any civilization if they needed to monitor, influence, or kill key figures. It's even like poetry; doing this occasionally over centuries would probably make people covertly hate and fear shape-shifting goo people!
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Jul 25, 2017 20:33
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Baronjutter posted:A democratic paradise joins up? Sure, just don't vote to leave the dominion and you can carry on. I doubt that a real democracy would be allowed to exist within the dominion. Any "free" society could be a seed for rebellion and would probably be seen as potential threat by the founders. I mean that's pretty much why they went to war with the Federation in the first place, it's not like the Federation actually threatened them, the mere potential of the Federation to be a threat in the future was enough justification. I'm sure the average Dominion citizen can have a comfortable life, just like it was the case for many people in fascist governments (a poor world is afterall hardly able to contribute to your empire) but this shouldn't be mistaken with having freedom or being in any way comparable to the Federation. There is a reason why Democracies don't declare war on other Democracies in real life (a rule that has proven to be very resilient) and why it would be very hard to make a real "mirror Federation" that can act as believable antagonistic force (such attempts usually end up in being just another fascist government or something that is only a Democracy by name and thus wouldn't even stand up to a Federation comparison). I think the best chance you'd have is to create a power that is like the Federation but has a very different stance on how to interact with other species. A mirror federation with an anti prime directive that believes in enlightening pre-warp species and meddling in the politics of other empires (for the greater good obviously!) could work. That would allow some kind of cold war, even between democratic governments due to the huge ideological differences which don't really allow for a compromise (imo the only thing -outside of good old economical reasons- that can overcome the tendency of democracies to play nice with each other).
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Jul 25, 2017 20:41
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I imagine life can be very good in the dominion, until it's not. 100 years ago vorta diplomats arrived to a polluted struggling world, they offered technological wonders, they offered material aid and vorta facilitators to help. The planet was unified, poverty and illness eliminated, our culture and way of life was not lost and in fact the dominion supported its flourishing. This world never had aspirations for empire or expansion, and was quite content to be protected by the dominion and never have to worry about outside invasion. Trade with other nearby dominion systems was protected and dominion contract law ensured fair deals and little to no corruption. This planet was a model and loyal member of the dominion, like most in the sector. All their dealings with the Dominion were 100% fair and they were always good to their word. Then some rare strategic ore was found under this planet's oceans, to better serve the dominion they set up huge undersea mines and at first the planet and its leaders were supportive, happy to contribute to the Dominion. The mines polluted the oceans and killed off most sea life. The planets leaders complained to their friendly local Vorta ambasador, who instantly turned from best friend to throwing accusations of disloyalty. The well known leader who helped organize a protest against the mining was executed and mass arrests followed. Unrest and protest in coastal cities were met with a Jem'Hadar massacre and orbital bombardment. The planet is now a polluted hellscape with a toxic sea and the population lives under martial law, slaving away in the ever expanding mines. These are the sort of stories i would have loved to have seen regarding the dominion. That yes, some sort of "technocratic dictatorship" can be very nice and "gets things done" but fundamental rights are actually super important in the long run. Don't let the promise (or even results) of material/economic progress make you forget about your total lack of inalienable human rights or any sort of democratic accountability. There's people today in the real world that look at places like Singapore or Dubai or even China and think "hey, look at all the poo poo they're building, they seem to be doing quite well without democracy or all these silly constitutional protections. Maybe if we gave more power to technocrats and cut some red tape we could get things done too! What good are all these silly academic legal protections that just seem to stall everything and make lawyers rich and let criminals get off on technicalities? I bet we'd have a national hyperloop system by now if it wasn't for all that!"
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Jul 25, 2017 20:44
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