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It's much more daring (but also more difficult) to portray the enemy as a fairly normal, functional society where things mostly go okay for the majority of people, while still having a dangerous, poisonous ideology at the heart of it. As opposed to Dark Gray Evil Land that the villains like because they're evil. I think DS9 did about as good a job as anyone has with that, but certainly it could've done more. Sometimes it's dangerous because the audience really is too dumb, though. I remember reading in the DS9 companion book that the writers occasionally put in "kick the puppy" moments for Dukat because they were hearing that fans were starting to like him and weren't really catching onto the idea that he's a bad guy. Because he wasn't constantly doing "bad" things.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:47
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Sir Lemming posted:It's much more daring (but also more difficult) to portray the enemy as a fairly normal, functional society where things mostly go okay for the majority of people, while still having a dangerous, poisonous ideology at the heart of it. As opposed to Dark Gray Evil Land that the villains like because they're evil. Anyway the Dominion very well might have done the "forced uplift" thing. Isn't that the origin story of the Vorta?
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Jul 25, 2017 20:50
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Nessus posted:Anyway the Dominion very well might have done the "forced uplift" thing. Isn't that the origin story of the Vorta? Yes, they were simple ape like creatures, completely genetically uplifted.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:55
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Birth of the Federation was a great game but I can't get it to run on a modern PC, as I recall it has some kind of memory leak that makes the game get slower the longer you play it.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:01
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Shibawanko posted:Birth of the Federation was a great game but I can't get it to run on a modern PC, as I recall it has some kind of memory leak that makes the game get slower the longer you play it. Pretty unplayable after 100 turns.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:27
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Shibawanko posted:Birth of the Federation was a great game but I can't get it to run on a modern PC, as I recall it has some kind of memory leak that makes the game get slower the longer you play it. It was done by the moo2 team between projects on a huge rush. They only had the TNG license not DS9 or TOS so they could only show things that were seen in TNG, even if only a brief mention. So Bajor was ok, but the Dominion not. There were balance issues, technical issues, and the combat was ugly and bad. "Star trek themed moo2" is a game I'd absolutely love to play, and BOTF comes very close, but it needed a few more months in the oven and didn't sell super well so wasn't really followed up with patches/expansions.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:31
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Nessus posted:From what we see, the Dominion did not seem to keep a tight watch but they also probably had no reason to do so. The Dominion bombed a planet that resisted them back to the stone age, then seeded the survivors with a 100% communicable incurable disease that killed its victims slowly and in agony, and that accelerated in the presence of technology (E-M radiation) to make sure that the population stayed in misery forever. When Bashir found them they had been like that for 200 years, the entire species being tortured in perpetuity for the actions of some of their long-dead ancestors. As an example. When parts of the Cardassian military revolted against the Dominion, the Founder ordered the Jem'hadar to begin exterminating the entire population of the Cardassian homeworld in reprisal. gently caress the Dominion.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:32
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Also the Dominion decided after they win the war earth will need to be 100% genocided to keep the post-war order in the long run. (which didn't seem to be in Bashir's retards little projections, when they claimed the best solution was surrender then generations later a rebellion will form on earth)
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 21:37
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Reminder also that among the first people to come through the Gamma Quadrant wormhole were three million impoverished refugees fleeing in desperate terror because the Dominion had just conquered the species that had conquered and enslaved the refugee race, and life under the Dominion was worse. Seriously, gently caress the Dominion.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:37
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Nessus posted:See I think the latter is probably entirely because of the charisma of the actor, and it's legitimately a thing that seems to keep coming up: People really loving love making apologetics for evil assholes as long as they're charming and at least kind of physically attractive. And this is hardly confined to fictional villains. Even just being less of a monster than the guy before you can get plenty of feet-shuffling from "still definitely bad" to "maybe good after all?"
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Jul 25, 2017 21:45
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Yeah even in the initial concept of the Dominion being a dark mirror to the Federation I doubt it was meant in any way other than being a multi-species power
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Jul 25, 2017 21:46
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TheScott2K posted:Some of them didn't want to throw out perfectly good uniforms that they preferred. Or people are just weird and want to wear the old uniform. I joined the air force after the ABU came out, so we were all issued ABUs. One of the people I went to tech school with went out and bought BDUs within a year of them being totally phased out because he thought it would be cool to have them for some reason. Plus people would do throwback Thursdays where they would wear their old BDUs before they were completely phased out. Which means these people hadn't promoted in a few years or they were updating a phased out uniform.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:51
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shadok posted:The Dominion bombed a planet that resisted them back to the stone age, then seeded the survivors with a 100% communicable incurable disease that killed its victims slowly and in agony, and that accelerated in the presence of technology (E-M radiation) to make sure that the population stayed in misery forever. When Bashir found them they had been like that for 200 years, the entire species being tortured in perpetuity for the actions of some of their long-dead ancestors. As an example. As a school teacher once told me about dealing with rowdy kids: "You don't have to shoot them all... just one."
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Jul 25, 2017 22:01
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cheetah7071 posted:Yeah even in the initial concept of the Dominion being a dark mirror to the Federation I doubt it was meant in any way other than being a multi-species power
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Jul 25, 2017 22:03
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Eiba posted:Wasn't the Dominion a multi-species power though? They had military specialist species, so all their ships were manned by Jem Hadar, and all their commanders were Vorta, but that always seemed like it was just their military. I'd agree it's a pity we didn't get to see any Dominion civilians after the war started, but I never felt like they abandoned the concept of a multi-species empire. It just stopped being as relevant when they were mostly just an invading army on this side of the wormhole. In my mind, there's a very different feel to a power that's made up of a bunch of different species working together and one that bio-engineers a specific race for each possible role (but then only actually has two for budget reasons). If budget and viewer confusion were non-concerns I would have liked to see Dominion member species other than Cardassians in the war.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:07
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The dominion had the Karemma as traders or civilians of some kind.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:11
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Grand Fromage posted:Stellaris Trek mod is in the top five of Star Trek games. I really hope they finish it well and it doesn't get torn apart by modding drama or some poo poo before then. From what I've heard there's two Trek mods in development for Stellaris. There's Star Trek: New Horizons, which has been getting some good buzz as of late, and there's Star Trek: Infinities, which is still in early development but is being made by most of the same people who made the Armada 3 mod for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. The two teams have been considering collaboration, but the two mods have rather different design goals and interpretations of Trek, so for the moment it looks like the two will continue on their separate paths. I'm a little more excited for Infinities, if only because of the pedigree of Armada 3. Gotta admit, I'm kinda curious how both will handle stuff like ENT and TOS-era Cardassians. Federation stuff is easy, since all you need to do is watch the shows, and you can handle the Klingons and Romulans with a mix of the shows and a few video games (usually some combination of the SFC series for TMP-era stuff, the Armada Series for TNG and later, and Legacy for most any era). For stuff like the Cardassians and the Dominion you're pretty much in unexplored territory. Marshal Radisic fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 22:12
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The founders didn't trust their member species to do anything, they were absolute control freaks and had mental-illness levels of paranoia about "solids" out to get them. The vorta do all the thinking work, the jemhadar do all the fighting work, and both are genetically engineered and conditions to be loyal and birthed from facilities under their direct control. The countless member species are restricted to civilian roles and made toothless and passive. We dont' see them because they aren't involved in the war, they aren't coming through the wormhole for any official reason. They just stay home and support the war machine economically. Member species aren't conscripted to fight in wars, their planet is simply taxed more to support more cloning facilities. The Vorta and Jemhadar are probably only like 1% of the dominion population, but it's the only ones we really see because the other 99% is back home restricted to civilian life only. The Cardassians were a special case, they were more like allies than full members of the dominion (but would become as such in the long term). When they were cut off from their home territories the dominion in the alpha quadrant had to adapt and depend on the Cardassians much more directly. I imagine in the gamma quadrant dominion members are eventually totally disarmed. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 22:13
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I always assumed the 'rules' for being in the Dominion were just "Do not resist. Do not build a navy", and that all the Vota/Jem'Hadar business went on in entirely isolated locations. And if you do resist, they send the Jem'Hadar in.
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Jul 26, 2017 00:16
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Powered Descent posted:There was a Let's Play of this a few months ago, but it seems to have been abandoned mid-game. Yeah, my bad.  I got distracted looking for a new job. Plus, having a thread vote every turn was probably a mistake, because it made the whole thing drag like hell from my perspective.
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Jul 26, 2017 00:52
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From the example of the Karemma, the Dominon seems to leave its members mostly- or at least visibly- autonomous as long as they behave. But there's no three strikes. You break the rules, you get stomped.
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Jul 26, 2017 02:43
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shadok posted:The Dominion bombed a planet that resisted them back to the stone age, then seeded the survivors with a 100% communicable incurable disease that killed its victims slowly and in agony, and that accelerated in the presence of technology (E-M radiation) to make sure that the population stayed in misery forever. When Bashir found them they had been like that for 200 years, the entire species being tortured in perpetuity for the actions of some of their long-dead ancestors. As an example.
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Jul 26, 2017 04:35
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I had such a blast playing Birth of the Federation back when it came out. I tried to get into it again recently (It was a bitch to get running) and... it has not aged well at all.
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Jul 26, 2017 04:54
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Gonna watch Sins of the Father after I get some treats.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:02
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Gonna watch Sins of the Father after I get some treats. It's a really good one, one of the best Worf episodes. Also, thanks for having my back in the Dems are a waste thread.  I'd have PMed you about it, but you don't have PMs, and I felt like I shouldn't just quote and thank you in that thread.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:07
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Nessus posted:Didn't they also casually exterminate the Maquis? Yep, and they also drove the Klingons out of Cardassian space at the same time. You know, when you stack up the Gowron-Duras Civil War, the invasion of the Cardassian Union, their skirmishes with the Federation, their eviction from Cardassian space by the Dominion, and the Dominion, the Klingon Empire (especially their fleet) has been hammered pretty hard by the end of DS9. I kinda think Sloane was on the money when he said that after the Dominion War, the two big powers in the region in the next two decades would be the Romulans and the Federation. Too bad the only thing that ever came of that was Nemesis.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:15
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Klingon foreign exchange student. This should be good.WampaLord posted:It's a really good one, one of the best Worf episodes. No problem pal.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:30
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I guess Klingons haven't advanced as far in dentistry as humans.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:30
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Marshal Radisic posted:I kinda think Sloane was on the money when he said that after the Dominion War, the two big powers in the region in the next two decades would be the Romulans and the Federation. Too bad the only thing that ever came of that was Nemesis. And then oopsie, Romulus blew up. Say hello to the Pax Federatia.
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Jul 26, 2017 05:32
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 Lol at asking Wesley if he has something to share with the class
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Jul 26, 2017 05:32
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Slightly ominous music after the Klingon gives orders to go to someplace 
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Jul 26, 2017 05:33
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The Klingon's got a bias against Wesley... I think I might have figured out what the title means
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Jul 26, 2017 05:36
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I like Worf being described as "the one guy who wouldn't mind" the Klingon being hard on him
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Jul 26, 2017 05:38
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I can't tell if the Klingon's intentionally trying to get a rise out of Worf by patronizing him or if he's just awkward. Or maybe something to do with bias since Worf was raised by humans. Or maybe he's Worf's father 
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Jul 26, 2017 05:40
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I can't tell if the Klingon's intentionally trying to get a rise out of Worf by patronizing him or if he's just awkward. Or maybe something to do with bias since Worf was raised by humans. Or maybe he's Worf's father
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Jul 26, 2017 05:41
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Klingon: "No, [Riker], this is not a Klingon ship. If it were, I would have killed you for offering your suggestion."
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Jul 26, 2017 05:43
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Lol I love the symmetry of the Klingon being grossed out by the fact that we cook our food to the point he had to "prepare" for it
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Jul 26, 2017 05:43
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Hahaha the bestial snarl when he smells caviar
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Jul 26, 2017 05:44
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Jul 26, 2017 05:46
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WHOA
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Jul 26, 2017 05:49
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