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it shaun posted:They never will. I think the alt-right might be big enough that there are people on the edges that we shouldn't give up hope on just yet.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:23
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The closest comparison I can think of here is to Cartman's anti-Semitism on South Park, but the comparison still doesn't work. One can argue on whether Cartman's anti-Semitism is actually funny, and that probably varies from episode to episode based on execution and context, but the intent behind it, at least, is that the joke is supposed to be on Cartman, not on Kyle. We're supposed to laugh at Cartman for his cartoonishly evil antics, not laugh with him because it's edgy. Pewdiepie's joke isn't that. Pewdiepie's joke, even looking at it as charitably as possible, is "I made these people display anti-Semitic hate speech with no indication of irony to anyone who happened to see it." That's just plain not funny, and if you think that we're all just being too rigid and we should look past what the sign actually said to laugh at the concept of the joke, you're a) minimizing anti-Semitic hate speech, and b) proving the point that the sign could have, and should have, said something else.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:25
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Midig posted:First off, the avatar is coincidental. I think knights are cool. Secondly, joking is not bigotry. Not all jokes are "just a joke", but this time it was. Whatever, I will just assume that you guys are 40+ which is why it flies over your heads. I'm not referring to the avatar, I'm referring to your history in these threads of defending bigots, including PewDiePie on this exact topic! You were wrong then and you left the thread in shame for a few months and god willing you'll do the same thing this time too. You tried the tactic of saying we're too old to get it last time too, by the way. It didn't work then, either, because you were forced to admit that you can't tell the difference between "ironic" 4channers and genuine bigots. I guess we're going to have to do that all over again because you're too stupid to remember. fallenturtle posted:Or, you know, you could just not be an rear end in a top hat to people before knowing enough to decide if they are an rear end in a top hat. PDP's dumbassery is well known and well documented. We know for a fact he's an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:25
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Who What Now posted:They will never take is seriously because they are proud to be racists. How do you not get this? quote:To show this all he needed to do was have them say "Fiverr is hosed up". There was no purpose, no logic, and no meaningful intent to choosing "Kill the Jews" instead. There was purpose and a meaning in what he did... it was just tasteless, offensive, and poorly thought out.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:30
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WampaLord posted:Your logic is hosed. Making anti-Semitic jokes means that you are an Anti-Semite. Full stop. What about if the person making the joke is Jewish, like Jon Stewart or Mel Brooks?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:33
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fallenturtle posted:You disagree? The people on the alt-right are already mocking being called racists. It's a joke to them, they don't it seriously. Actually they're extremely butt blasted about it if they aren't the type to be wearing jackboots in the open
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Jul 25, 2017 22:33
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fallenturtle posted:What about if the person making the joke is Jewish, like Jon Stewart or Mel Brooks? Ok, now I know you didn't watch the video.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:34
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fallenturtle posted:What about if the person making the joke is Jewish, like Jon Stewart or Mel Brooks? I suspect you have no idea what kind of jokes about Jews Mel Brooks makes, do you? Here's a hint: he isn't paying anyone to hold up a "Death to all Jews" sign.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:34
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Also lol at Pittsburgh having such an obvious name for their parachute account
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Jul 25, 2017 22:35
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fallenturtle posted:What about if the person making the joke is Jewish, like Jon Stewart or Mel Brooks? You know nothing about Mel Brooks, huh?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:35
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Who What Now posted:It didn't work then, either, because you were forced to admit that you can't tell the difference between "ironic" 4channers and genuine bigots. I guess we're going to have to do that all over again because you're too stupid to remember. What does 4chan have to do with anything? If you lump in idiots, trolls, and racist on a board with almost no rules, of course then it is impossible to tell who is joking or serious. If however, they show their face you can actually read the joke and use intuition to "decipher" it.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:36
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fallenturtle posted:What about if the person making the joke is Jewish, like Jon Stewart or Mel Brooks? Please watch the Lindsay Ellis video, because if you had you wouldn't be making this argument. 0_0
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Jul 25, 2017 22:37
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Who What Now posted:PDP's dumbassery is well known and well documented. We know for a fact he's an rear end in a top hat. He probably is an rear end in a top hat. You think he's anti-semitic. I'm not convinced. Can we agree to disagree and go back to making fun of Sargon?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:39
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^^^^^^^^ I'm not holding a gun to your head forcing you to keep posting, you know. Midig posted:What does 4chan have to do with anything? If you lump in idiots, trolls, and racist on a board with almost no rules, of course then it is impossible to tell who is joking or serious. If however, they show their face you can actually read the joke and use intuition to "decipher" it. People who make jokes can still be bigots. Goddamn you are dumb as hell, aren't you? Who What Now fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 22:39
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Who What Now posted:^^^^^^^^ I know it means they can be, it just does not mean they definitely are. I post pretty much what I want without considering your approval.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:42
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It's the old 'does doing something racist make you a racist?' argument again. I'd say not necessarily, but in the case of PDP, well, yes. His rubbish apology sealed it for me.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:42
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There were plenty of Nazi accomplices who "knew in their heart" they didn't hate Jews, they had plenty of Jewish friends, they just really disliked Communists, they were following the law, etc. Those excuses didn't fly at Nuremberg either.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:43
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Midig posted:I know it means they can be, it just does not mean they definitely are. I post pretty much what I want without considering your approval. A single joke doesn't prove anything, buy a history of doing it over and over sure does. Guess what Felix has?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:44
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Please watch the Lindsay Ellis video, because if you had you wouldn't be making this argument. 0_0 I did. Would I be wrong to assume you guys don't consider Brooks or Stewart to be anti-Semitic?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:44
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fallenturtle posted:I did. Where are you seeing Mel Brooks making a joke on the same level as the Pewdiepie one we're talking about?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:46
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fallenturtle posted:I did. You find me a clip of Brooks saying "Kill all Jews" by itself as a joke and I'll ask a mod for a week's probation.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:46
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Serious question, fallenturtle: do you think we think Pewdiepie is an anti-Semite because he made a joke with the word "Jews" in it? Is that what you think we see as the problem?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:48
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Who What Now posted:Ok, now I know you didn't watch the video. I'm not talking in context of PDP's joke. He's clearly made enough of these jokes that you consider him antisemitic and I'm not going to argue with you about that. My point is that without context Brooks could come off as anti-Semitic. As a side note: is it anti-Semitic or antisemitic? I can't tell what my spell check wants me to do.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:49
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fallenturtle posted:I'm not talking in context of PDP's joke. He's clearly made enough of these jokes that you consider him antisemitic and I'm not going to argue with you about that. You do know that Mel Brooks was indeed considered anti-Semitic by some Jewish groups because of the Producers, right?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:50
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Harrow posted:I suspect you have no idea what kind of jokes about Jews Mel Brooks makes, do you? Here's a hint: he isn't paying anyone to hold up a "Death to all Jews" sign. I know. I'm not trying to compare them. I should have been more clear about the direction I was going with this.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:53
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fallenturtle posted:I'm not talking in context of PDP's joke. He's clearly made enough of these jokes that you consider him antisemitic and I'm not going to argue with you about that. Wait, so what the gently caress is it you think you've been doing for the last five pages?
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Jul 25, 2017 22:55
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it shaun posted:It's the old 'does doing something racist make you a racist?' argument again. Frankly at this point I'm not going to argue it... I haven't watched enough of his videos and you all seem to be familiar with him much more than I am so that I can probably safely assume he's a racist (especially after the Leslie Jones bit). My point is just that we should get to know the context of a comment or joke before we label someone and that in certain contexts (which PDP failed to meet) race based jokes can be funny.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:59
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Harrow posted:Where are you seeing Mel Brooks making a joke on the same level as the Pewdiepie one we're talking about? He didn't. See my other posts on this topic.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:00
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fallenturtle posted:Frankly at this point I'm not going to argue it... I haven't watched enough of his videos and you all seem to be familiar with him much more than I am so that I can probably safely assume he's a racist (especially after the Leslie Jones bit). What made you think we weren't aware of the context of PDP's comment?
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Jul 25, 2017 23:01
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Harrow posted:Serious question, fallenturtle: do you think we think Pewdiepie is an anti-Semite because he made a joke with the word "Jews" in it? Is that what you think we see as the problem? I think you believe Pewdiepie is an anti-Semite because he's made several jokes regarding Jews and Hitler and you believe they weren't just made in poor judgement but actual reveal a foundation of antisemitism.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:03
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Poor judgement is the foundation of antisemitism
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Jul 25, 2017 23:05
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fallenturtle posted:I think you believe Pewdiepie is an anti-Semite because he's made several jokes regarding Jews and Hitler and you believe they weren't just made in poor judgement but actual reveal a foundation of antisemitism. I think he's an antisemite because he doesn't seem to understand that a "death to all Jews" joke is fundamentally unfunny, hurtful to Jewish people, and bad for reasons other than "people were offended." He fundamentally doesn't understand that his joke was antisemitic and his actions both before and after indicate that he doesn't care. He's sorry that people were offended, but he isn't sorry about the content of the joke. Like I said before, I don't think Pewdiepie unironically wants to kill Jews. I don't think he feels like he hates Jews, and I don't think he feels like he treats Jews as lesser people. But his actions disregard the feelings, history, and humanity of Jewish people, and therefore paint him as anti-Semitic. It's incumbent on him to prove otherwise, if he truly isn't. But he has had several opportunities to do so and did not. Just like racism, antisemitism can be subtle and unconscious. Just like someone can be racist without actively trying to kill people of color or constantly spouting racial slurs, someone can be antisemitic and do antisemitic things without making serious statements about how much they hate Jews.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:07
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Who What Now posted:A single joke doesn't prove anything, buy a history of doing it over and over sure does. Guess what Felix has? Just googling it only shows the last controversy, do you happen to be able to find it easily? I don't want to look for it on his channel.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:08
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Who What Now posted:^^^^^^^^ I don't believe I've implied such.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:09
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Who What Now posted:You do know that Mel Brooks was indeed considered anti-Semitic by some Jewish groups because of the Producers, right? That's kind of my point. Not about PDP, but just that not everyone who makes a racist joke is a racist.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:10
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Someone please think of the assholes not respecting the person hood of others
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Jul 25, 2017 23:12
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Goon Danton posted:Wait, so what the gently caress is it you think you've been doing for the last five pages? Well first I was arguing that PDP wasn't anti-Semitic but I stopped because it seemed most of you disagreed with me and while from what I've seen I'm not fully convinced, I trust that y'all have seen more than I have to justify the label, so I dropped it. Now I'm just arguing that there are contexts where racist jokes can be funny when its in the form of mockery, but that such black humor is incredibly subjective and based on context.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:15
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Who What Now posted:What made you think we weren't aware of the context of PDP's comment? Because it didn't seem to mesh up with what I'd seen. Based on what you've all said since then I clearly I haven't seen enough to be able to make a well-informed opinion.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:18
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That's shifting the goal posts. "Well I could have been right"
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Jul 25, 2017 23:18
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Harrow posted:I think he's an antisemite because he doesn't seem to understand that a "death to all Jews" joke is fundamentally unfunny, hurtful to Jewish people, and bad for reasons other than "people were offended." He fundamentally doesn't understand that his joke was antisemitic and his actions both before and after indicate that he doesn't care. He's sorry that people were offended, but he isn't sorry about the content of the joke. I can see that... but I guess I would draw the distinction in regards to him being an anti-Semite based on whether the jokes were making fun Jewishness vs their treatment.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:23
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