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i understand the concepts, but albo has a right to apply for italian citizenship that i explicitly lack, as my parents are not italian citizens. has that right ever been explicitly tested against section 44 in court?
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Jul 28, 2017 03:22
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BBJoey posted:i understand the concepts, but albo has a right to apply for italian citizenship that i explicitly lack, as my parents are not italian citizens. has that right ever been explicitly tested against section 44 in court? Nope! There isn't a lot of case law here, which is why there's the theory that Canavan is a test case.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:47
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BBJoey posted:i understand the concepts, but albo has a right to apply for italian citizenship that i explicitly lack, as my parents are not italian citizens. has that right ever been explicitly tested against section 44 in court? As far as I know it hasn't, but given how many people are entitled to dual citizenship, there's no way the High Court would disqualify on the grounds of theoretical entitlement to dual citizenship because of how many people would be disqualified. I'd be willing to bet a majority of Australians would be entitled to dual citizenship somehow (like English or Irish grandparents, for example).
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Jul 28, 2017 03:50
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Irish citizenship requires an Irish parent, but yeah it's a shitload of people and anyone that's a first gen Australian.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:52
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BBJoey posted:i understand the concepts, but albo has a right to apply for italian citizenship that i explicitly lack, as my parents are not italian citizens. has that right ever been explicitly tested against section 44 in court? Luckily high court justices generally have a functioning brain
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Jul 28, 2017 03:52
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Whitlam posted:As far as I know it hasn't, but given how many people are entitled to dual citizenship, there's no way the High Court would disqualify on the grounds of theoretical entitlement to dual citizenship because of how many people would be disqualified. I'd be willing to bet a majority of Australians would be entitled to dual citizenship somehow (like English or Irish grandparents, for example). The best outcome to this would be only aboriginal and torres straight islanders would be eligible to sit in parliament. EDIT: and third+ generation pure Australians (like my mum!)
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Jul 28, 2017 03:53
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I have to imagine that they will say that being eligible to apply for citizenship doesn't disqualify you, because I can't imagine most countries would have official procedures for people to declare they want to have that right removed.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:55
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hooman posted:EDIT: and third+ generation pure Australians
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Jul 28, 2017 03:56
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I have the right to go in the green card lottery any time I want so by the same standard I'm entitled to become an American.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:56
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Solemn Sloth posted:Luckily high court justices generally have a functioning brain not according to my most trusted news source, the herald sun
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Jul 28, 2017 03:57
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BBJoey posted:i understand the concepts, but albo has a right to apply for italian citizenship that i explicitly lack, as my parents are not italian citizens. has that right ever been explicitly tested against section 44 in court? actually you have a right to apply and get REJECTED
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Jul 28, 2017 03:58
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https://twitter.com/J_C_Campbell/status/890765913758121984 Campbell is the National Political Editor at the Hun.
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Jul 28, 2017 04:01
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Whitlam posted:As far as I know it hasn't, but given how many people are entitled to dual citizenship, there's no way the High Court would disqualify on the grounds of theoretical entitlement to dual citizenship because of how many people would be disqualified. I'd be willing to bet a majority of Australians would be entitled to dual citizenship somehow (like English or Irish grandparents, for example). disqualifying as many australians as possible to serve in parliament seems a noble goal to me
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Jul 28, 2017 04:09
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Doctor Spaceman posted:https://twitter.com/J_C_Campbell/status/890765913758121984 They just rounding up the wogs now.
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Jul 28, 2017 04:24
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technically parliament should be empty because everyone is Serb
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Jul 28, 2017 04:35
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open24hours posted:I think in this context being able to apply means that you will get citizenship if you do apply, and would thus be entitled to a passport and whatever else. In that case it's Israel doing the religious testing not Australia.
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Jul 28, 2017 04:40
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hooman posted:The best outcome to this would be only aboriginal and torres straight islanders would be eligible to sit in parliament. And excluding people of Hungarian descent forever because there's no limit on how far back your ancestor can be before you can no longer use them to get citizenship. Also Italian if your ancestor was Italian during the current form of the Italian nation. Probably some other nations like this too.
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Jul 28, 2017 05:18
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Brisbane Times article re Julia Banks, who holds her seat with a 1.2% margin: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/fed...728-gxkiiq.html Looks like there is a very real possibility she has issues. Edit: I hope those Korean dudes that make the cartoon news videos do one on this, because it's hysterical and we must be the laughing stock of the world right now (or would be if they weren't all fixated Trump.) The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 05:28
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I was deeply disappointed that the LNP won Chisholm so good.
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Jul 28, 2017 05:31
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https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/890795863412363264
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Jul 28, 2017 06:43
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If Ludlum quitting over this causes a constitutional crises he should get a statue of him made and put on the lawns of Parliament House as a national hero
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Jul 28, 2017 06:47
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*slides into di stefanos DMs*
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Jul 28, 2017 06:51
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:In that case it's Israel doing the religious testing not Australia. There's also the basis that the test isn't based solely on religious grounds, but of matrilineal lines with a possible partrilineal test that's more difficult to achieve. That'd be interesting. I've heard you cannot get rid if Israeli citizenship, and I'm not sure if you necessarily are called in for duty due to the draft they have if you're also residing as a dual citizen in a different country. It'd depend on the treaties we have with Israel and whether taking "all reasonable steps" is recognized.
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Jul 28, 2017 07:00
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Nautilus42 posted:There's also the basis that the test isn't based solely on religious grounds, but of matrilineal lines with a possible partrilineal test that's more difficult to achieve. Based on a very quick search, it appears that you can renounce Israeli citizenship, but to do so you must first be an Israeli citizen ( http://embassies.gov.il/toronto/ConsularServices/Pages/Renunciation-of-Israeli-Citizenship.aspx ). This seems to imply that you can't get rid of your right to citizenship under the Law of Return unless you first take it up? quote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Law_of_Return Maybe it doesn't matter. open24hours fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 07:17
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norp posted:If Ludlum quitting over this causes a constitutional crises he should get a statue of him made and put on the lawns of Parliament House as a national hero What if Plibby and Banks both get ruled ineligible, Sydney falls to the NSW greens and Chisolm goes to Labor, giving the NSW Greens and Bandt the balance of power in the house, resulting in Full Communism Sometime?
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Jul 28, 2017 07:25
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Despite all the poo poo (rightfully) thrown at the Greens over this I find it interesting that they are only ones who haven't gone kicking and screaming. It's like they actually have ~*~Standards~*~.
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Jul 28, 2017 07:29
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Or respect for the electorate,
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Jul 28, 2017 07:31
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Don Dongington posted:What if Plibby and Banks both get ruled ineligible, Sydney falls to the NSW greens and Chisolm goes to Labor, giving the NSW Greens and Bandt the balance of power in the house, resulting in Full Communism Sometime? Full Communism Eventually: A Patient Revolution
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Jul 28, 2017 07:48
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Here I was thinking the Greens' image would be hosed for years after they lost two, but if they take publicity advantage on the fact that their senators were the only ones to actually respect the law and step down instead of try to hold on illegally they might manage to come out ahead of the others. That would probably require a more competent media and publicity department than they have, though.
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Jul 28, 2017 07:53
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BBJoey posted:given the constitution says: What that means is if a person is currently entitled to the rights granted to a citizen. In the real world individuals aren't entitled to those rights until they become a citizen of said nation. It won't block individuals who only have eligibility, it's just semantics to block people from having a potential citizen-in-all-but-name status. The right to apply for a citizenship of Italy, like albo, is not a right of an Italian citizen, it's a much broader right. What's tricky is where you get automatic citizenship under certain circumstances. That's what'll catch most people out here. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 07:58
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Futuresight posted:Also Italian if your ancestor was Italian during the current form of the Italian nation. Probably some other nations like this too. Only paternal lineage, and only one generation back afaik
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Jul 28, 2017 08:00
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Cartoon posted:Despite all the poo poo (rightfully) thrown at the Greens over this I find it interesting that they are only ones who haven't gone kicking and screaming. It's like they actually have ~*~Standards~*~. Ludlam wanted to leave anyway. He didn't have any ticker.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:02
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Cartoon posted:Despite all the poo poo (rightfully) thrown at the Greens over this I find it interesting that they are only ones who haven't gone kicking and screaming. It's like they actually have ~*~Standards~*~. It would have looked pretty bad but after all this other stuff came to light it actually makes the Greens look good because they did the right thing once it came out. loving  at the rats scurrying for cover now the citizenship stone has been upturned though.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:10
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Ultimately It's good that this is catching out a fuckton of people across multiple parties because it shifts the message from 'lol how disorganised must the greens have been' to 'what the gently caress, the system is retarded and needs to be fixed'.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:12
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JBP posted:Ludlam wanted to leave anyway. A good man can't survive in politics.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:16
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Dutch citizenship wouldn't be an issue as they don't even allow dual citizenship unless under special circumstances (You marry a dutch citizen, you were born overseas). If you hold both, they usually cancel your Dutch citizenship if you have spent 10 years overseas and haven't spent at least one year during that time in the Netherlands. Not to mention the usual way to get it is to spend up to 5 years living there in the first place. It's crazy strict.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:16
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At this point they just need to announce the AEC will do a formal check on all members.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:21
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JBP posted:Ludlam wanted to leave anyway. I don't know if you're trolling or not but that's pretty uncalled for.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:21
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I have to say that as a grandchild of German immigrants this whole Wog/Jerry/Balt hunt is starting to give me chills down my spine. Especially given this nation's bad habit of mass internment for undesirable ethnic groups.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:23
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:I have to say that as a grandchild of German immigrants this whole Wog/Jerry/Balt hunt is starting to give me chills down my spine. Especially given this nation's bad habit of mass internment for undesirable ethnic groups. It's about time white immigrants were treated to the modern immigrant experience
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Jul 28, 2017 08:26
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