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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Sneakster posted:Actually this is one place there is hope. Real estate trends, like 70% of millennials want to live in dense cities, and transit projects, even if slow, are being green lighted that would not have been accepted in the 80s. People don't want to raise families in dangerous slums, but they like cities. We're rapidly transitioning from a 1950s suburbia ideal arrangement to. not exactly that. I do think trends are changing, and there are (modest) improvements are happening but at the same time the issue comes down to government spending. A lot of this comes down to just general inertia, ideology and a fair amount of racism/classism and it is pretty hard to break. Baltimore is a good example, they re-organized their bus lines with what they had available but couldn't get a basic east-west corridor to tie the city together. Look at the DC Metro and the MTA which seems either in full meltdown or on the verge of it (we will see if DC needs more repairs), a big issue with both is that decades of maintenance were ignored for budgetary reasons. SEPTA also has been barely scraping by and Philadelphia is certainly a city that needs greater infrastructure development. In the US, on one hand, there is a general demographic change but at the same time at the financial level, nothing really has changed. Basically, gentrification "switched" the populations and white upper middle-class people started to reuse the infrastructure they once abandoned but a lot of that infrastructure wasn't maintained or expanded like it needed to and maybe won't. quote:No, probably not. Density is a big part of the effectiveness of transit too, so NYC is its own planet. Yeah, the L is still pretty skeletal and in many ways even more antiquated. I think they have finally fixed the track on main corridors but for a city with such extremes in temperature, it isn't cut out for a turn of the century elevated system (nothing like waiting on a platform during the heart of winter.)
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Jul 30, 2017 03:38
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Ytlaya posted:The thing you need to ask yourself is why it bugs you so much that people think this. Like, I agree that there's unlikely to be some complete left-wing reworking of the Democratic Party in the next few years, but I don't see any harm in people being enthusiastic about the idea (and ultimately they are right about public opinion towards Democrats deteriorating, especially as older Democrats continue to die off). So the important question is why some part of you is thinking "I can't let this stand" when you see people enthusiastic about making Democrats more left-wing. Another thing to consider is that the negative reaction is largely because almost the only things you say are these contrarian points. It would be one thing if you had engaged in the discussion in some other manner and then brought this stuff up, but it's obvious you're coming at this topic specifically with some gripe against leftists in mind. This is quite a lot of psycho analyzing since I'm quite happy to see the party changing. Any contrarian reaction is a natural response to NFS-style shitposting.
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Jul 30, 2017 03:59
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Ardennes posted:I do think trends are changing, and there are (modest) improvements are happening but at the same time the issue comes down to government spending. A lot of this comes down to just general inertia, ideology and a fair amount of racism/classism and it is pretty hard to break. Baltimore is a good example, they re-organized their bus lines with what they had available but couldn't get a basic east-west corridor to tie the city together. Look at the DC Metro and the MTA which seems either in full meltdown or on the verge of it (we will see if DC needs more repairs), a big issue with both is that decades of maintenance were ignored for budgetary reasons. SEPTA also has been barely scraping by and Philadelphia is certainly a city that needs greater infrastructure development. In the US, on one hand, there is a general demographic change but at the same time at the financial level, nothing really has changed. WMATA service is actually reliable, on the other hand, people who wear suits absolutely do not use the MTA. It was a world of shock seeing middle class white people on the SEPTA and WMATA. Problem with Chicago is that of any city, pockets of poverty develop in abandoned areas, with enough sparsity this is magnified. WMATA funding in the big picture isn't a concern, DC is rapidly gentrifying with people actively supporting the metro. We're in the reversal of decades of disinvestment. Even the gentrifying portions of Baltimore are also strongly transit supporting. Its one of the few good things, people are actually investing in their communities and there's a desire for a better society. Plus the air isn't poisoned.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:18
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last I heard the ballyhooed millennial downtown movement isn't true at all and the suburban path remains unchanged. it was basically a hiccup partly tied to the crash and also to having families later
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Jul 30, 2017 04:25
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Peachfart posted:lol @ 'leftists' earnestly talking about virtue signaling Peachfart posted:B5 is right. Peachfart posted:The alt-left being disingenuous is nothing new. Peachfart posted:But avoiding looking at race is basically how the alt-left exists so... Peachfart posted:this statement is more accurate if you change 'liberal' to 'minorities', to fit with your alt-left views. Peachfart posted:Maybe I was less going after Bernie and more going after alt-left dorks who react before thinking. Who's permabanned alt are you? Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 04:36
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mastershakeman posted:last I heard the ballyhooed millennial downtown movement isn't true at all and the suburban path remains unchanged. it was basically a hiccup partly tied to the crash and also to having families later Also keep in mind "older people think/do thing" is not the same thing as "people do/think thing when they get older". For example, while people do go to the suburbs to start families, even people starting families are still on the rise in cities. This covers a lot of it. There's also the basic costs necessitating certain adaptions, but suburbs are the temporal aberration, not cities. In the long term it's reasonable to expect cities and inner ring suburbs to become increasingly wealthy while poverty is pushed towards decaying exurbs.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:50
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Sneakster posted:MTA and WMATA are two very different systems. The MTA is almost exclusively used by the poor, Baltimore's legacy is among the most segregated in the country, possibly the most. Public transit is actively sabotaged by the counties and explicitly a "black people thing". Baltimore market is ripe for slumlords, its very cheap and dangerous or as expensive as NYC, which is bizarre considering even the nicest areas are within blocks of murder zones. There's basically a white people L shaped corridor that's expensive, and outside of that is unlivable hellscape. The gentrification of Baltimore is absurdly cynical, the city is selling out the current residents while giving generous investment and breaks for coming in gentry, they literally demolish certain things for Baltimore Development Corporation (real life OCP) while promising jobs for local residents that intentionally never materialize. There's a growing tech economy but the local residents pretty much have no future and the drug war is a delightful factor when you can make more in a few hours slinging than any straight work that you're going to get without a college degree in Baltimore, which you probably don't have if you're from. By MTA, I was referring to the New York MTA and the subway meltdown that is currently happening. Admittedly, a lot of cities use "MTA." As far as Baltimore, I don't disagree with you. That said, the gentrification in DC usually had very little to do with local communities and more or less just "happened." I lived in DC for a while in 03/05 then more recently in 2016, it was simply a different city, a "year zero" pogrom might as well happened. Neighborhoods that were mixed or mostly black, became almost as white. There seems to be very little mixing as well. The WMATA is a very much a wait and see, honestly, it has been a mess for years, and they spent a lot on maintenance this year but we will see what happens. I will say even with the best of times, that metro service was too infrequent for a rapid transit system, and it isn't cheap either. (Also, using buses in downtown or west of rock creek is a nightmare since there are simply so many bottlenecks.) That said, it is something middle-class white people, especially younger ones will use. Chicago just has an old, slow system that is rarely expanded and as one would expect the Southside is usually ignored. One issue is that the L is still using wooden ties, and maintenance is a complete nightmare. (Btw, as far as the theme of this thread goes, most of these cities were controlled by Democrats for years/decades.)
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Jul 30, 2017 08:05
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WampaLord posted:Don't use the phrases of the alt-right or else people will assume you are also alt-right.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:16
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Kilroy posted:Oh great so the fascists get to dictate the words and terminology we use now too. Uh, no poo poo? You really want to make the case for why "virtue signaling" is a cool and good phrase? How about "white power?"
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Jul 30, 2017 08:18
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Call Me Charlie posted:Who's permabanned alt are you? 
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Jul 30, 2017 08:24
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Ardennes posted:(Btw, as far as the theme of this thread goes, most of these cities were controlled by Democrats for years/decades.) There's no such thing as a conservative/Republican agenda or ideology. To claim as such would be to give political agency to the concept of stagnation and decay. It's basically the result of a collapse of functioning society, a political void of graft championing free market solutions out of brainwashed nihilism. Do nothing and pretend things will revert to some ideal ambiguous "the way things were" state with no specific method or goal beyond not contesting the status quo is not a coherent platform or agenda. EDIT: WampaLord posted:Uh, no poo poo? You really want to make the case for why "virtue signaling" is a cool and good phrase? How about "white power?" Language evolves, but virtue signalling is a recently invented term that's supposed to describe conspicuous consumption of things associated with charitable causes, not strictly part of definition, but the consumption of said products doesn't address the moral concern they signal the consumer has. The term has been adopted to just mean anyone that isn't a nihilistic psychopath, similar to how race baiting used to refer to racist nazi propaganda, and the right has adopted the term to mean bringing up racist policies/issues. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 08:27
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Does make me wonder; what does an ideal local government look like? How do they accomplish good things with their limited authority and scope? How do they work together with the larger party if applicable, and the country in general?
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Jul 30, 2017 08:35
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Former Clinton Backing Democrats Join With High Profile Neo-Conservatives to Create "Alliance for Securing Democracy" Group Article here. Headed by people like Bill Kristol, former Clinton foreign advisor Laura Rosenburger, aswell as Jamie Fly, a foreign policy advisor to the hawkish Marco Rubio campaign and the Bush White House. Something that Orwellian-sounding has the best intentions I'm sure. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 08:38
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Inescapable Duck posted:Does make me wonder; what does an ideal local government look like? How do they accomplish good things with their limited authority and scope? How do they work together with the larger party if applicable, and the country in general?
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Jul 30, 2017 08:39
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Inescapable Duck posted:Does make me wonder; what does an ideal local government look like? How do they accomplish good things with their limited authority and scope? How do they work together with the larger party if applicable, and the country in general? I think the ideal local government is one that is active, both in utilizing the resources available to it but lobbying state governments and the federal government for the type of funding it needs. In the case of DC/Chicago/Portland, I never got the feeling the city government was actually interested in playing an active role in shaping the massive social issues each city had and mostly existed as a care-taker entity.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:42
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WampaLord posted:Uh, no poo poo? You really want to make the case for why "virtue signaling" is a cool and good phrase? How about "white power?"
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Jul 30, 2017 08:57
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How about this WampaLord: how about instead of telling people what words they can use based on whether or not whether some internet shitlords have also used them yet, and how about instead of hemming and hawing because a few posters think maybe Senate Democrats should not have clapped and hooted and hollered for some geriatric lich who should have died of skin cancer during the Clinton administration if there were any justice in the world - how about instead of all that you get with the loving program and do something to build a leftist movement in this country and in this world that can bury these fascist pieces of poo poo at the bottom of a deep dark hole where they've always belonged, before we're all boiled alive by climate change or droned by the ruling class? Or am I instituting a purity test now?
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Jul 30, 2017 09:08
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Kilroy posted:How about this WampaLord: how about instead of telling people what words they can use based on whether or not whether some internet shitlords have also used them yet, and how about instead of hemming and hawing because a few posters think maybe Senate Democrats should not have clapped and hooted and hollered for some geriatric lich who should have died of skin cancer during the Clinton administration if there were any justice in the world - how about instead of all that you get with the loving program and do something to build a leftist movement in this country and in this world that can bury these fascist pieces of poo poo at the bottom of a deep dark hole where they've always belonged, before we're all boiled alive by climate change or droned by the ruling class? Or am I instituting a purity test now? Jesus gently caress, did I kill your dog or something? And by the way, I'm doing what I can in my own way, don't question my motives, that's extremely loving rude.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:12
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Inescapable Duck posted:Does make me wonder; what does an ideal local government look like? How do they accomplish good things with their limited authority and scope? How do they work together with the larger party if applicable, and the country in general? Serious answer: juggling licences, operating local programs and services, transit, working with community advocate groups such as historical preservation, business deals such as large scale construction, working with developers, public housing, police, paying off victims of the police, local festivities and charities, utilities and infrastructure, and questionable long standing budget holes in departments that haven't been audited in decades that certainly have nothing at all to do with laundering any amount of the billion dollar contraband flowing through the heroin capital. One of the problems of the suburbs is decentralizing the income of a centralized population center and spending a lot of public money to shield you from observing society. Edit: WampaLord posted:And by the way, I'm doing what I can in my own way, don't question my motives, that's extremely loving rude. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 09:13
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WampaLord posted:Jesus gently caress, did I kill your dog or something? You know that plays into their hands, right? They want to leave us with no means to communicate our thoughts, and they can easily do this by taking our language for themselves because they know hand-wringing idiots like you will do most of the work for them. Cut it out. The only time you should care about the specific idioms fascist shitlords use with one another is when you're cataloguing them for use at their eventual show trials - never for insulting or denigrating a leftist who uses an appropriated term in the correct / original sense.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:21
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The use of virtue signaling wasn't even correct though with regards to Gillibrand's support of single payer
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Jul 30, 2017 12:41
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Inescapable Duck posted:Does make me wonder; what does an ideal local government look like? How do they accomplish good things with their limited authority and scope? How do they work together with the larger party if applicable, and the country in general? There's a college town not far from me whose government successfully promotes:
And none of this involves the parties. They only seem to be a factor during elections and larger matters, such a corporate donor wanting to build a new facility nearby.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:39
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:The use of virtue signaling wasn't even correct though with regards to Gillibrand's support of single payer He's right. Virtue signaling generally refers to a specific kind of empty advocacy which serves the vanity of the speaker more than the cause itself. It's not the same as simply lying to keep in power. Edit: For the record, I personally don't care if people use the term since there are times where it's accurate. That said it's generally used by the kind of people who can't fathom someone actually being in favor of minority rights, so expect to get poo poo if you run around using it unironically. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 16:32
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http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/343963-opinion-democrats-time-to-wish-hillary-clinton-goodquote:OPINION | Democrats: Time to wish Hillary Clinton good luck and goodbye Four more years of Trump it is, then. Keep on being centrists and catering to "moderate Republicans", all the while convincing the working class and poor to stay home.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:54
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Remember when people were saying that Howard Dean should become head of the DNC again? https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/891593722370162688 (retweeted by him) https://twitter.com/CaptainsLog2017/status/891462342529044480 Although he isn't wrong all the time. https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/891357220817977345 Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 16:58
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it's real annoying how the party has bought into myth that america is generally conservative. it's the loving opposite. that tweet is gross as hell too. don't applaud them for basic decency. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 17:08
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's real annoying how the party has bought into myth that america is generally conservative. it's the loving opposite. That would be admitting that they can't get most of their base motivated and out to the polls Optics!
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Jul 30, 2017 17:12
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It is amazing how much Corbyn loving terrifies establishment democrats.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:23
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*polling shows americans in general want social democracy* hmm let's keep this third way going!!!
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Jul 30, 2017 17:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:that tweet is gross as hell too. don't applaud them for basic decency. Eh, in terms of garbage tier centrists, I'd much rather work with somebody like Dean since he's A) willing to push for universal healthcare while he's also pushing for stupid poo poo like a balanced budget/lower taxes B) as willing to work with progressives as he is to work with republicans C) not a complete partisan dud of an individual. Just look at the idiot he was replying to. https://twitter.com/MrDane1982/status/891688652518154240 (if you really want to get mad or  at people living an an alternate reality no different than the extreme-far-right, browse his twitter feed)
Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 18:17
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Call Me Charlie posted:Remember when people were saying that Howard Dean should become head of the DNC again? Dean is at least competent. They worst of both worlds is a milquetoast centrist that is also an incompetent con artist like Robbie Mook or Mothership Strategies.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:35
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Call Me Charlie posted:Eh, in terms of garbage tier centrists, I'd much rather work with somebody like Dean since he's A) willing to push for universal healthcare while he's also pushing for stupid poo poo like a balanced budget/lower taxes B) as willing to work with progressives as he is to work with republicans C) not a complete partisan dud of an individual. i don't mean dean i mean the people lining up to congratulate people for doing the bare minimum.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:i don't mean dean i mean the people lining up to congratulate people for doing the bare minimum. Oh, sorry. I thought that part was directed at me since he said he was willing to call a truce with people like Bernie so we can move towards implementing Medicare For All.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:44
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I'm not afraid to make some predictions. I also don't assume that my opinions, despite the fact that they are objectively true and correct, will be expressed in electoral politics. They never has in the past and there's a lot of inertia in the Democrats. I bet the right wing Democrats shrug off any primary challenges from the left. Maybe a minor house congressman will get popped. Not more than a couple. Leftists will continue entryisming state Democrat parties. Maybe a couple states will be under our control but it will be in states where the Democrats only ever will Dog Catcher or whatever. For the house races, the right wing Democrats will swear up and down they learned the lessons of 2016 and the special elections. They will run a dozen Ossoffs in seats that in a normal wave would turn and they'll pick up like one seat. Meanwhile DSA, Redneck Revolt or whoever will run candidates in less promising districts and pick up more seats (like maybe a half dozen). The Senate looks worse. The electoral map is very daunting. If the Republicans field that guy who used to pitch for the Red Sox he will crucify Elizabeth Warren. That post I made a few pages ago about the Republicans running Goku comedy candidates wasn't a joke. We're staring down the barrel of Senator Kid Rock and Senator Doctor Oz. The Ossoffs the Democrats run will not stand a chance. There is hope, though. The right wing Democrats will be so obsessed with holding onto power and how their Ossoffs are going to win bigly that they won't defend local races. Likewise, the Republicans think they have a thousand year Reich for some reason and a few states are being forced to redistrict their gerrymandered districts. They left is going to make a lot more progress in city councils, mayorships, as dog catchers and in state legislatures. Taking over a political party takes time and effort. I think we'll be in a better position by the time the 2020 clown car starts filling up. All the more if Schumer gets popped off by Vince McMahon or Howard Stern. PS. Howard Dean has been compromised for a good long time.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:53
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Dmitri-9 posted:Dean is at least competent. They worst of both worlds is a milquetoast centrist that is also an incompetent con artist like Robbie Mook or Mothership Strategies. What exactly has Dean done to separate himself from them?
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Jul 30, 2017 18:57
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Dmitri-9 posted:Dean is at least competent. They worst of both worlds is a milquetoast centrist that is also an incompetent con artist like Robbie Mook or Mothership Strategies. Hasn't Dean become like a turbo-lobbyist for some Middle East feudal hole, though?
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Jul 30, 2017 19:02
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:If the Republicans field that guy who used to pitch for the Red Sox he will crucify Elizabeth Warren. lol no he will not. curt schilling is loving insane.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's real annoying how the party has bought into myth that america is generally conservative. it's the loving opposite. 1- *mccain returns to vote* 2- *democratic caucus flips him off* 3- *mccain votes for skinny repeal in predictable fit of pique* 4- ? 5- progressive victory
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Jul 30, 2017 19:40
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you're so loving dumb holy poo poo.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:45
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The balanced budget idea sounds great, but it just leads to a balanced budget in Democrat years at first, followed by Republicans starting wars and expecting Democrats to cut services to balance them, and we has a balanced budget once, and it just led to parodies of Al Gore shouting "LOCKBOX" all over the place
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Jul 30, 2017 19:52
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