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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Falstaff posted:Is she for single payer? Or better wages? She didn't say anything about that in the ad, just about defending Obamacare. You have no idea if she's a Blue Dog, you idiot. Neither do I! It's just an announcement video. But I'm trying to tell you that this is the kind of mold of candidate to run. Someone with a story, who has ties to her community and is aligned with the interest of the people. If it turns out she's the worst centrist to ever centrist, I'll change my mind, but you all are implementing the dumbest of purity tests. No veterans ever? Have fun with that. quote:She literally brags about personally bombing foreigners in her campaign ad No, she doesn't. Don't lie.
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Aug 1, 2017 18:53
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https://theoutline.com/post/2020/left-with-rage-what-happens-when-trump-is-gonequote:When the ghouls return, when they retake their position at helm of American reaction and declare the last decade to have been an embarrassing mistake we should all just forget about, I am worried that the American left — already in a position more precarious than it cares to admit — will find itself in a fight far more difficult than the one it faces right now. The fracture that exists right now between the whole of the right and the center-left will collapse: Nobody will welcome the ghouls back faster than our liberals.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:01
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Sometimes I wonder if you all realize that the country is composed of different regions with different values, that respond to different people and ways of phrasing things. Like do you not realize what sounds good to a progressive Seattleite or Californian might be a turn off to a working class Kentuckian?
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Aug 1, 2017 19:02
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Lightning Lord posted:Sometimes I wonder if you all realize that the country is composed of different regions with different values, that respond to different people and ways of phrasing things. No, Liberals do not understand this.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:03
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Huzanko posted:No, Liberals do not understand this. Neither do the people freaking out that Amy McGrath is the second coming of Killary it seems.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:04
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WampaLord posted:You have no idea if she's a Blue Dog, you idiot. Neither do I! It's just an announcement video. But I'm trying to tell you that this is the kind of mold of candidate to run. Someone with a story, who has ties to her community and is aligned with the interest of the people. You're right, I don't. All she has in her announcement video is: 1. I'm a veteran. 2. I bombed foreigners. 3. I want to save Obamacare from Mitch McConnell. I guess the difference is that you're willing to assume the best of her where otherwise unproven, while I think the Dems' track record suggests otherwise. WampaLord posted:No, she doesn't. Don't lie. Amy McGrath posted:"flew 89 combat missions bombing Al Qaeda and the Taliban" 
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Aug 1, 2017 19:07
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WampaLord posted:You have no idea if she's a Blue Dog, you idiot. Neither do I! It's just an announcement video. But I'm trying to tell you that this is the kind of mold of candidate to run. Someone with a story, who has ties to her community and is aligned with the interest of the people. It's not a bad strategy but I'm getting horrible flashbacks of Stephanie Murphy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p7rTfSFO2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRR-W9aeGk (spoiler: she's a bluedog)
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Aug 1, 2017 19:07
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Falstaff posted:I guess the difference is that you're willing to assume the best of her where otherwise unproven, while I think the Dems' track record suggests otherwise. Yes, I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's up to the people of her district to decide if "bombing foreigners"  is a dealbreaker for them.Spoiler alert, her district is in Kentucky, it will not be a dealbreaker for them. If you're just going to assume that literally every candidate is going to be bad, why bother engaging at all?
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Aug 1, 2017 19:09
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WampaLord posted:Yes, I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's up to the people of her district to decide if "bombing foreigners" Every candidate must appeal to Californians and Seattleites exclusively or they're a secret blue dog betrayer automatically.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:13
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I agree that this is good marketing for Kentucky, but I'll withhold judgment over things like whether she would have voted for the Iraq War or supports single-payer until she clearly announces which policies she supports.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:15
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Falstaff posted:You're right, I don't. All she has in her announcement video is: Sounded more to me like, "I bravely helped break new ground for women's rights by being politically engaged from a young age and putting my own life very much at risk by signing up to help defend my country from attack." If her campaign ends up being hawkish, then talk poo poo on her, otherwise don't blame the people who sign up to defend their country for the politicians being bloodthirsty morons.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:16
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Falstaff posted:2. I bombed foreigners. That's not how she phrases it. It's almost like you are deliberately lying. DeadlyMuffin posted:But why are they appealing, and what are they trying to accomplish by doing so? Do your own homework on why the State didn't want to pay. I don't think that's a policy she set as AG though. The particular appeal is incredibly reasonable and anyone trying to make it out as anything else is just trying to rile people up. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 19:17
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Even a Blue Dog is better than a Republican. At least they vote with the left on procedural issues, which is better than opposition in all issues.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:19
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abusing transgender people is just state policy and kamala harris was just following orders!
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Aug 1, 2017 19:21
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Condiv posted:abusing transgender people is just state policy and kamala harris was just following orders! Please tell me more about how Kamala Harris personally harmed this trans person
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Aug 1, 2017 19:21
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I like Bernie much more than Hillary and Amy McGrath seems like a good candidate from the little information out there. Maybe she'll come out and support single payer or maybe she'll get paid $260,000 to give a 40 minute speech at Goldman Sachs, but it's stupid to assume one over the other.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:22
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Democrazy posted:Even a Blue Dog is better than a Republican. At least they vote with the left on procedural issues, which is better than opposition in all issues. lol no. Blue Dogs are garbage because they're nearly impossible to primary and you're stuck with them until the opposition gets so radicalized (aka tea party) that they can finally win. And you can't even trust them to display party discipline, if they think it's something that will make them vulnerable to attack (from the left or right)
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Aug 1, 2017 19:24
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hey nevvy, you should go centersplain to chelsea manning why she's an idiot for not liking kamala harris, and how harris is actually a true friend to transgender people i think the part where you say it's ok to abuse transgender people if that's just the way the system works will really go over well with her
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Aug 1, 2017 19:26
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Regardless of what you think of Kamala Harris as a candidate, telling Chelsea Manning that she shouldn't make people regret that they agitated for her to be set free is an intensely hosed up thing to do.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:29
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Condiv posted:hey nevvy, you should go centersplain to chelsea manning why she's an idiot for not liking kamala harris, and how harris is actually a true friend to transgender people Go back to T_d you dumb piece of poo poo. no one said this, and you have't actually said a single thing that was done wrong to this person. You are a lovely poo poo stirrer and that's all you've ever been. Lightning Lord posted:Regardless of what you think of Kamala Harris as a candidate, telling Chelsea Manning that she shouldn't make people regret that they agitated for her to be set free is an intensely hosed up thing to do. I agree. People shouldn't do that.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:29
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Nevvy Z posted:Go back to T_d you dumb piece of poo poo. no one said this, and you have't actually said a single thing that was done wrong to this person. You are a lovely poo poo stirrer and that's all you've ever been. so chelsea manning has to have personally suffered at the hands of kamala harris before she can criticize kamala harris being poo poo on transgender issues? your capacity for centersplaining is amazing nevvy!
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Aug 1, 2017 19:31
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Nevvy Z posted:Please tell me more about how Kamala Harris personally harmed this trans person http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/05/05/harris-renews-effort-to-block-gender-reassignment-for-trans-inmate/
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Aug 1, 2017 19:31
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Condiv posted:so chelsea manning has to have personally suffered at the hands of kamala harris before she can criticize kamala harris being poo poo on transgender issues? your capacity for centersplaining is amazing nevvy! Shutup idiot no one said that Reik posted:http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/05/05/harris-renews-effort-to-block-gender-reassignment-for-trans-inmate/ Yes. Lawyers appealed something. That's what lawyers do.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:31
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Call Me Charlie posted:lol no. Blue Dogs are garbage because they're nearly impossible to primary and you're stuck with them until the opposition gets so radicalized (aka tea party) that they can finally win. And you can't even trust them to display party discipline, if they think it's something that will make them vulnerable to attack (from the left or right) It's certainly not as good as having a progressive out there, and I would personally like to see many of these candidates taking on pro-union, social contract (in terms of farm bill, Medicare, SSA etc.) stances, but if that's the candidate that we have, it is objectively better than losing to a Republican within reason.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:33
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Condiv posted:so chelsea manning has to have personally suffered at the hands of kamala harris before she can criticize kamala harris being poo poo on transgender issues? your capacity for centersplaining is amazing nevvy! I think it's perfectly reasonable to not like Harris because of this, and I also think it's perfectly reasonable to say that it's lovely, but not a dealbreaker and to see her as someone who can be pushed into being more transgender friendly.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:35
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Nevvy Z posted:Shutup idiot no one said that oh, you meant how did she harm the transgender person she very obviously harmed. cause you're a lovely centrist centersplaining how kamala harris was doing a good thing quote:Yes. Lawyers appealed something. That's what lawyers do.  she didn't have to do that. that makes her a poo poo ally on transgender issues. hth
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Aug 1, 2017 19:35
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Nevvy Z posted:Shutup idiot no one said that quote:Harris argues a stay is appropriate because she says Norsworthy has received sufficient medical treatment for gender dysphoria, she’s failed to demonstrate she faces immediate injury, the state will be irreparably harmed if a stay isn’t granted and gender reassignment surgery is a procedure that can wait. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/04/10/harris-appeals-order-granting-trans-inmate-gender-reassignment/ Arguing that she is more informed on the sufficiency of the medical treatment of Norsworthy than the doctor treating them seems like a bad thing.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:36
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Call Me Charlie posted:lol no. Blue Dogs are garbage because they're nearly impossible to primary and you're stuck with them until the opposition gets so radicalized (aka tea party) that they can finally win. And you can't even trust them to display party discipline, if they think it's something that will make them vulnerable to attack (from the left or right) That's the key. I'm fine with supporting blue dogs, CONDITIONALLY. Want to be pro-life? Fine, but if we do healthcare you are voting for a public option whether it costs you your seat or not. We won't help you if you don't. We will use our influence to help you find something else if you lose. You have to pick SOMETHING to be purity on or your party will always fail to get anything done once in power. There has to be something for the party to unify around, it can't just be everybody voting to keep their seats. (You could just as easily pick purity on abortion instead of purity on public option, but loving PICK SOMETHING as a party so you have a coherent national message.) FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 19:37
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Reik posted:http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/04/10/harris-appeals-order-granting-trans-inmate-gender-reassignment/ not if you're centrist, cause that's what nevvy's been doing this whole time with "how was the person harmed" schtick
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Aug 1, 2017 19:39
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Blue Dog pro-life stuff isn't "we must punish the sluts that get abortions so no healthcare for anyone!" AFAIK too Like Bernie-sama's pro-gun stance is more about reasonable custodianship of firearms, not "let the guns rain from the sky" GOP stuff
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Aug 1, 2017 19:39
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Nevvy Z posted:Do your own homework on why the State didn't want to pay. I don't think that's a policy she set as AG though. The particular appeal is incredibly reasonable and anyone trying to make it out as anything else is just trying to rile people up. It's not a secret, the state didn't want to pay because it didn't think gender reassignment surgery is medically necessary. You should read the appeal. The state expert thinks it's not necessary because not having it won't kill her, and the depression resulting from being denied "can be addressed through the mental-health services available in prison" I don't care if she didn't come up with the policy, she hasn't expressed any objection. Quite the opposite based on the appeal.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:42
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Condiv posted:lol the dems are not moving towards single payer. pelosi says it should be tried at a state level and then dems in her loving state stonewall it and say it should be done at a national level. we're getting the runaround
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Aug 1, 2017 19:43
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FuriousxGeorge posted:That's the key. I'm fine with supporting blue dogs, CONDITIONALLY. Want to be pro-life? Fine, but if we do healthcare you are voting for a public option whether it costs you your seat or not. We won't help you if you don't. We will use our influence to help you find something else if you lose. You have to pick SOMETHING to be purity on or your party will always fail to get anything done once in power. There has to be something for the party to unify around, it can't just be everybody voting to keep their seats. (You could just as easily pick purity on abortion instead of purity on public option, but loving PICK SOMETHING as a party so you have a coherent national message.) I think that there is something to this in terms of broad message and ideas, but honestly, Republicans had a robust effort to radicalize the party and subject their members to an ideological rigor the Left could only dream of, and that still didn't work on a key campaign issue. BCRA and AHCA really showed us that even when a party does everything it can to be on the same page, it's really hard not to go with how they think the district will think of the vote. Of course, plenty of Blue Dogs sacrificed themselves on the pyre of the ACA, and others who didn't vote for it still lost, so it's not like the parties don't live or die together nowadays. That's an important consideration, too.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:47
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WampaLord posted:You have no idea if she's a Blue Dog, you idiot. Neither do I! It's just an announcement video. But I'm trying to tell you that this is the kind of mold of candidate to run. Someone with a story, who has ties to her community and is aligned with the interest of the people. It's not that she's a veteran, that's fine. It's just that her announcement video was entirely about "OORAH I FIGHT BOMB JOHNNY FOREIGNER CARRIERS also healthcare". It could have been the other way around in emphasis "SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE PAY GAP LIVING WAGE as a veteran I will fight for these".
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Aug 1, 2017 19:48
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Kokoro Wish posted:It's not that she's a veteran, that's fine. It's just that her announcement video was entirely about "OORAH I FIGHT BOMB JOHNNY FOREIGNER CARRIERS also healthcare". It could have been the other way around in emphasis "SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE PAY GAP LIVING WAGE as a veteran I will fight for these". You and I took a completely different read on that video, then. The bulk of it was her telling her own personal story, her life struggles, and how Republicans had kept her down. She had one line about the missions she did, you're projecting a lot of ooh-rah into a mostly neutral video.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:50
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Democrazy posted:Even a Blue Dog is better than a Republican. At least they vote with the left on procedural issues, which is better than opposition in all issues. Tell that to people living under Joe Manchin.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:52
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Reik posted:Arguing that she is more informed on the sufficiency of the medical treatment of Norsworthy than the doctor treating them seems like a bad thing. Presenting an argument to a court that your expert disagrees with the other expert. How evil. Condiv posted:oh, you meant how did she harm the transgender person she very obviously harmed. cause you're a lovely centrist centersplaining how kamala harris was doing a good thing Again, you make poo poo up i didn't say. And again, you haven't actually stated the harm you keep insisting was so obviously there. Lol at you idiots who think an attorney doing their job is inherently evil because the state didn't want to pay for a specific treatment a transperson asked for. Real good understanding of how a civil society works you got there. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 19:52
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Kokoro Wish posted:It's not that she's a veteran, that's fine. It's just that her announcement video was entirely about "OORAH I FIGHT BOMB JOHNNY FOREIGNER CARRIERS also healthcare". It could have been the other way around in emphasis "SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE PAY GAP LIVING WAGE as a veteran I will fight for these". i think you're being a little too rough on her, but that could be from growing up in a red state. the military is one of the easiest ways to get college/job training/a decent job if you're not rich here, and even if the member aren't specifically pro-war, they're still almost always pro-military. i see her commercial as playing to the military crowd (which is a whole lot of poor people we should be able to connect with) by emphasizing her dedication to the military and her hard work as a vet. there's no calls for new wars or needing to protect our borders from scary foreigners. i think she's fine
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Aug 1, 2017 19:54
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We came we saw he died
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Aug 1, 2017 19:55
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Kokoro Wish posted:It's not that she's a veteran, that's fine. It's just that her announcement video was entirely about "OORAH I FIGHT BOMB JOHNNY FOREIGNER CARRIERS also healthcare". It could have been the other way around in emphasis "SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE PAY GAP LIVING WAGE as a veteran I will fight for these". Where are you from? Do you have any veteran relatives or friends? If so, are they crazed warhawks? I don't ask because I'm being disingenuous, I'm seriously curious about how those things might be impacting how you're perceiving the ad.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:56
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