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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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160 | 52.98% |
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Sneakster posted:Rather than accept superficial tools of capitalist propaganda, what is it that women, and women of color, support? Who is it that was most slandered by liberal capital capitalist propaganda as not being in the interests of the people who support him the most and have the most to gain materially under the policies of? Are you talking about Bernie? How is this a response to what I wrote?
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Aug 2, 2017 00:29
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Sneakster posted:Rather than accept superficial tools of capitalist propaganda, what is it that women, and women of color, support? Who is it that was most slandered by liberal capital capitalist propaganda as not being in the interests of the people who support him the most and have the most to gain materially under the policies of? It's more complicated than that. The rewards for loyalty to the system we live in are lavish for those afforded the opportunity to reap them. Many women, people of color and even us gays are coerced into shilling for the system in some way by years of eating poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:37
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quote:http://www.colorlines.com/articles/california-parents-could-get-jail-time-if-kids-miss-school Ahahahaha holy loving poo poo, this is who's supposed to be the new leader of the Democrats? This is supposed to be the good guy? I've said it before in this thread, but America really got the government it deserves.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:46
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ChairMaster posted:Ahahahaha holy loving poo poo, this is who's supposed to be the new leader of the Democrats? This is supposed to be the good guy? Centrists really love her, as evidenced by nevvy's last stand for cis-privilege
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Aug 2, 2017 00:49
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Jizz Festival posted:Are you talking about Bernie? How is this a response to what I wrote? Over Easy posted:It's more complicated than that. The rewards for loyalty to the system we live in are lavish for those afforded the opportunity to reap them. Many women, people of color and even us gays are coerced into shilling for the system in some way by years of eating poo poo. I only heard "Bernie Bro" from (mostly white) middle class internet people selling themselves as the real heroes of society. If you've ever been in a ghetto, you'd find communism is the easiest sell in the world. I never heard anything about white privilege, though I did hear a lot of anti-Semitic slurs, yet even with that, the struggle of those in poverty transcends liberal IDpol propaganda. The most subversive and longest lasting image of 2016 isn't a liberal cult of personality for a capitalist crook, but what the oppressed support beyond what capitalist propaganda tells them to buy: 
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Aug 2, 2017 00:51
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Sneakster posted:Capital won A perfect synopsis of world history up to this point.
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Aug 2, 2017 00:57
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Over Easy posted:A perfect synopsis of world history up to this point. The majority of millennials reject capitalism, and an obscure senator went from 5% support to being the currently most popular politician with the strongest support from the people liberals keep trying to say has a problem with, rather than the crooks polling worse than a bumbling reality TV nazi cartoon.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:02
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Call Me Charlie posted:You're missing my point. Bill Nelson is one of the best Senators with one of the safest seats in Florida.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:09
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bold text CAPITAL LETTERS curse word
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Sneakster posted:Nothing lasts forever is an even better one. You are right in that capitalism as we understand it will necessarily end and I am not particularly optimistic about the nature of what comes after. As we careen toward a society plagued by social constriction and resource scarcity I often think about this older Jacobin article, Four Futures. In the article, Peter Frase looks at how society could transform based on how egalitarian/hierarchical people are organized and how scarce/plentiful resources are. The place on that Punnett square that is both strongly hierarchical and resource scarce is where I think we're heading. Although it will be dressed up in a kind way as to seem merciful or ecological by whatever touchy-feeling psychobabble is chic at the time, as Frase says, "Once mass labor has been rendered superfluous, a final solution lurks: the genocidal war of the rich against the poor." Egg Moron fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 01:25
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JailTrump posted:Bill Nelson is one of the best Senators with one of the safest seats in Florida. I can't tell if you're just unwilling to read the posts you're replying to or if you're actually having trouble understanding what people are saying in this thread.
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Aug 2, 2017 01:28
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Over Easy posted:"Once mass labor has been rendered superfluous, a final solution lurks: the genocidal war of the rich against the poor."
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Aug 2, 2017 01:32
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Jizz Festival posted:What does a matriarchal/nurturing power structure look like? 
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Aug 2, 2017 03:18
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Upon reading the whole article, it certainly lines up with my fears: We're headed for an apocalyptic cleansing of superfluous labor that can largely be drawn along the lines of centralized neo-urbanism. Those that can't can't acquire abstract shares of capital in emerging techno-fiefdoms will be quietly pushed to the edge of a society in a de facto euthanizing of those alienated socially, economically, and geographically from the core of population centers. Despite the momentary inversion, historically cities have been the domain of the wealthy and connected. County lines drawn to keep wealth in a sphere to not have to pay for the sticks. Look at the Democratic party and New York City vs the rest of the US. I'm now reasonably sure that we're headed towards Utopian city-states and wastelands of the abandoned medicated by the opium den of the internet. Labor in cities such as manning shops and artisan crafts will be cultural and social endeavors rather than wage slave drudgery, but those unable to acquire some foothold in these cities as this order emerges will be shut out of the post-capitalist society. Much of New York already exists as this with the idea of trust fund child-adults who's work in creative fields couldn't sustain them without their families support. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hJBD7tuyTE
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Aug 2, 2017 03:29
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Your position on women in power is a horrible one Sneakster. You're putting them on a pedestal that they do not deserve, from either direction. If Thatcher is not a woman then actually being a woman is not what makes a woman for your test and what you really want is some idealised theoretical version of a woman. Which is bullshit. We live in the real world and need to elect actual real existing people to these positions. Also people are a product of their environment and the expectations put on them. It's no coincidence that the women coming to power in our corrupt systems have been just as bad as the men. Just as violence by women is trending upwards as our culture starts breaking down the divides between the sexes, so is being a power-hungry, cold-hearted, oppressive, corporatist rear end in a top hat. It's the system that produces and elevates these assholes, and for a long time only men were really allowed in the system, it's got nothing to do with inherent gender traits.
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Aug 2, 2017 03:53
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Feminist power structure != female representative of patriarchal power structure.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:16
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But you also said you wanted women in power because that would make it happen. There are millions of men more feminine than Thatcher. Feminine itself is losing a lot of descriptive power because we're moving away from the strict separation of responsibilities, expectations, and etc that created femininity. If you want someone who would promote the ideals you want, you need to look for those ideals in them specifically, not their gender.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:29
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There's already a huge problem with feminism being controlled by wealthy straight white women primarily and pursuing their agenda at the expense of everyone else, especially queer and minority women. Putting feminism on a pedestal pretty much immediately means blinding oneself to those shortcomings, especially given how any criticism of it can be dismissed as misogyny and minority voices are erased by assuming to be men. And it absolutely enables conservatives and centrists to push lovely politics that overall harm women with a female figurehead of a class conveniently insulated from said harm.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:30
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Sneakster posted:I only heard "Bernie Bro" from (mostly white) middle class internet people selling themselves as the real heroes of society. hell yeah bitch
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Aug 2, 2017 05:03
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Inescapable Duck posted:There's already a huge problem with feminism being controlled by wealthy straight white women primarily and pursuing their agenda at the expense of everyone else, especially queer and minority women. Putting feminism on a pedestal pretty much immediately means blinding oneself to those shortcomings, especially given how any criticism of it can be dismissed as misogyny and minority voices are erased by assuming to be men. And it absolutely enables conservatives and centrists to push lovely politics that overall harm women with a female figurehead of a class conveniently insulated from said harm. That's kinda why the third wave became a thing, yes. That a lot of the people Hillary surrounds herself with are 2nd waver holdovers was obvious to anyone who looked at the way they handled dissent from younger women (and how their allyship is extremely conditional).
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Aug 2, 2017 05:06
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Analytic framework for critique of power structure != literal endorsement of female-supremacist power structure. Communism != USSR Stalinist Bureaucracy. Feminists != effeminate male and frumpy female internet genetic deadends and female sociopaths. Frankenstein != monster hunted by the villagers. As I've mentioned I'm literally a hobo with no family and completely alienated from society using university as a halfway house with force of will and opportunity from the networks I have access to as the sole means to escape destitution and vagrancy with one action packed shot to enter the middle class. When housing was unstable when I was a little kid, I spent a lot of time in university library that happened to have pinko books. Despite that I have literally otherwise no stake in the status quo, regard the bourgeois as quite literally an enemy force to the extent that I support literal class warfare in the sense of organized political violence, I've lived my entire life in the ivory tower to varying degree. Stupid laymen on the internet are not an indictment of an idea. The problems with IDpol isn't the recognition of different problems faced by different groups, its when its disingenuously used a counter-revolutionary bourgeois self-indulgence. I have only heard about white privilege almost exclusively from middle class people ~96% of the time white, 100% online. I've grown up in a black ghetto, and never, ever, once, ever loving heard that kind of thing, alienation from white society yes, but the delusion that money isn't the fundamental driver of power in society is just middle class, mainly white people absolving themselves of their own crimes. When I see social media of positively shared statements by middle class white women spitting on the white lower class and justifying it with something about white privilege, it doesn't take much insight to see these people for what they are. Despite whats glaringly obvious between the lines, the reality of the white supremacist power structure isn't a smoke screen. If you're a white at a decent university in a technical field, holy loving hell, if you're half way conventionally attractive, not a goddamn idiot, and carry yourself at all, you can literally land job opportunities by virtue of just being a white person at a decent university and the desire for a white faceman. Thank God I can finally cash in on my white privilege. I was familiar with the term as mainly yuppie apologetics, but when you find out how the gentry live, it's understandable why they embrace so easily. When you're a member of "white society", holy loving hell, you are a literal worthless retard if you manage to fall out of the middle class if you started there. If you don't start there, it's something the middle class couldn't fathom any more than white yuppies can understand black ghettos as something besides what they spend half a million to flee. You have to be careful to differentiate an analytic framework from general human foibles of the people you associate them with, the critiques of feminism as simply being self-justification of upper class white women having substance doesn't dismantle the validity of looking at the power structures of society, and simply attacking the image of people its associated with isn't really any more meaningful than attacking champagne socialists and limousine liberals. You should see some of the emails I've written to the people at the food stamp office. Agnosticnixie posted:That's kinda why the third wave became a thing, yes. That a lot of the people Hillary surrounds herself with are 2nd waver holdovers was obvious to anyone who looked at the way they handled dissent from younger women (and how their allyship is extremely conditional). Religion, patriotism, and identity are the refuge of the scoundrel. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 05:57
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Futuresight posted:Your position on women in power is a horrible one Sneakster. You're putting them on a pedestal that they do not deserve, from either direction. If Thatcher is not a woman then actually being a woman is not what makes a woman for your test and what you really want is some idealised theoretical version of a woman. Which is bullshit. We live in the real world and need to elect actual real existing people to these positions. Also people are a product of their environment and the expectations put on them. It's no coincidence that the women coming to power in our corrupt systems have been just as bad as the men. Just as violence by women is trending upwards as our culture starts breaking down the divides between the sexes, so is being a power-hungry, cold-hearted, oppressive, corporatist rear end in a top hat. It's the system that produces and elevates these assholes, and for a long time only men were really allowed in the system, it's got nothing to do with inherent gender traits.
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Aug 2, 2017 06:03
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Problem is when you start breaking down the glass ceiling/patriarchy, for a number of reasons upper class white women are absolutely going to be the first to take power from upper class white men for reasons that should be pretty obvious. And as established, they are not necessarily going to be any better for anyone, even women, when they're already just a slight expansion of the dominant power structure that's decided it won't be significantly weakened by giving token concessions. Being progressive should be about expanding your options as to who you'll vote for, but still choosing that person entirely on merit, because otherwise you end up easily falling for token minorities put forward to ensure the continuation of the status quo, no matter how untenable. This should be obvious by now. Women, minorities, Muslims etc. are not automatically better than white people just because they've been oppressed by white people. Give everyone the right to be bastards and idiots.
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Aug 2, 2017 06:51
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Democratic rising star Kamala Harris has a “Bernieland” problemquote:“She is the preferred candidate of extremely wealthy and out-of-touch Democratic party donors,” said Winnie Wong, co-founder of the group People for Bernie, which played a prominent role the grassroots movement behind Sanders in 2016. “Her recent anointing is extremely telling. These donors will line her coffers ahead of 2020 and she will have the next two years to craft a message of broad appeal to a rapidly changing electorate.”
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Aug 2, 2017 07:26
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Who the gently caress is Kamala Harris? Bernie's the most popular politician in the country and the only one with any credibility on the issues. Clinton had universal name recognition, the 90s, and every favor imaginable to call in. Everyone knows who Bernie is now, and nobody knows the gently caress Harris is. If Sanders runs in 2020, hew's got every advantage that was against him last year.
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Aug 2, 2017 07:38
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Sneakster posted:Who the gently caress is Kamala Harris? Just a little something from the reptilian DNA labs
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Aug 2, 2017 07:41
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steinrokkan posted:Just a little something from the reptilian DNA labs
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Aug 2, 2017 07:51
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I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year after she goes over like a wet fart, Kamala Harris has already disappeared from public view.
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Aug 2, 2017 07:54
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Did the DNC ever actual release anything more specific on their, for lack of a better word "vision", after Monday last week or did they just give up?
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Aug 2, 2017 08:06
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Kilroy posted:Did the DNC ever actual release anything more specific on their, for lack of a better word "vision", after Monday last week or did they just give up? Not really. It basically boiled down to "We will get you a Better Deal™" like Tax Credits for your employer! Single payer is totally one of the many things on the table for discussion. So no, nothing either trustworthy or expansive.
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Aug 2, 2017 08:14
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Nevvy Z posted:Yes and? God forbid anyone disagree with a trans person in court?  is this bullshit.Why do """Democrats""" wander into this thread spouting poo poo that sounds like it's cribbed from Rush Limbaugh. "Trans people want to be treated like human beings, but I disagree. What. What. Oh is it thoughtcrime to disagree with a trans person about anything now?"
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Aug 2, 2017 08:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95HYKW3kTaY More women guards
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Aug 2, 2017 10:38
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Inescapable Duck posted:I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year after she goes over like a wet fart, Kamala Harris has already disappeared from public view. You are underestimating the Centrist ability to jam the ever-loving poo poo out of something bad down people's throats Can't wait for a rebranded Correct the Record pushing Kamala Harris, and by extension, fishmech calling us sexist for not supporting her
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Aug 2, 2017 12:30
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Cannot believe self-identifying leftists are disagreeing with the idea of more inclusion for women in positions of authority. It's a stereotype grown sentient.
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Aug 2, 2017 12:53
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Democrazy posted:Cannot believe self-identifying leftists are disagreeing with the idea of more inclusion for women in positions of authority. Will you support Tulsi Gabbard?
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Aug 2, 2017 12:58
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VitalSigns posted:
Try reading more than one post. Context matters.
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Aug 2, 2017 13:25
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Democrazy posted:Cannot believe self-identifying leftists are disagreeing with the idea of more inclusion for women in positions of authority. First priority is to get good people with good ideals they will hold on to strongly while in power. Then you worry about the demographics. Good news is that I'm sure there is more than enough minorities who have what we need so it shouldn't be an issue having both a good AND representative group in power. If you're genuine about wanting both of course. It might not work out if you're using "diversity" as an excuse to shove bad candidates down people's throats and crying prejudice when they gag on the prospect.
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Aug 2, 2017 13:27
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On twitter yesterday I saw a self professed "ally" of Trans people tell Chelsea Manning that she should be grateful for the left's support of her being out of jail and that she should be careful not to lose it by being critical of Harris. Between that and the hinting at being open to anti-choice candidates by 2020 I half expect Democrats to be supporting Sessions removing affirmative action.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 13:31
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Nevvy Z posted:Try reading more than one post. Context matters. the extra context of "because that's just the way things are" doesn't really help nevvy. sorry, but you're a shithead
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Aug 2, 2017 13:32
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Radish posted:On twitter yesterday I saw a self professed "ally" of Trans people tell Chelsea Manning that she should be grateful for the left's support of her being out of jail and that she should be careful not to lose it by being critical of Harris. Between that and the hinting at being open to anti-choice candidates by 2020 I half expect Democrats to be supporting Sessions removing affirmative action. That's gross and that person is terrible. Democrazy posted:Cannot believe self-identifying leftists are disagreeing with the idea of more inclusion for women in positions of authority. That's not what is happening and I think you know that.
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Aug 2, 2017 13:40
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I can no longer follow anyone on Twitter apparently without them retweeting insults about leftists and Bernie Sanders. Apparently the current sin of the left is not anointing Kamala Harris the nominee three years in advance. This is also somehow Bernie Sanders's fault. It's so loving exhausting. Look at this for example. Look at this loving thread https://twitter.com/TeaPartyCat/status/892577081313251328 I don't even know anything about Kamala Harris and had no opinion on her. I didn't plan to tune in to the primary for another couple of years, and mainly all I care about is platform. But holy poo poo this is such a turn off, and it isn't even her fault.
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