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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Trabisnikof posted:You're the one who called punishing "politicians who engage in acts that lead to more enslaved people in America" an idea that is "overly extremist and not realistic imo". that's not how it works trab. sorry  also, nice attempt to twist my words
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Aug 3, 2017 02:03
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Just read through all the dumb poo poo about truancy and criminalising it. Here's the thing. How about we modernise our school systems so they're not just rewarmed Prussian authoritarianism from the 1800s? Alot of countries need to do that. Try looking into things like Steiner schools and actual modern teaching methods that interest and engage students, as well as bringing out and fostering their individual potentials. Then maybe they'll actually want to go to school.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:06
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Condiv posted:that's not how it works trab. sorry "I'M NOT OWNED okay guys"
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Aug 3, 2017 02:07
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Condiv posted:we need to empower immigrants. make sure they're protected by labor laws the same as all of us, and strengthen labor laws a ton.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:07
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Sneakster posted:What if I don't want wages pressed down? H1B Visas are mostly a cheap labor scam, and the state has already forced me into debt to be able to enter the job market. an appropriately empowered DoL would help prevent that. extreme penalties for wage theft via H1B visas would be good too imo
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Aug 3, 2017 02:09
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Kokoro Wish posted:Just read through all the dumb poo poo about truancy and criminalising it. Here's the thing. "have you considered such a position is functionally the same as tearing down the idea of rule of law right this second?  " -trabisnikov
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Aug 3, 2017 02:12
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https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/892775305718497282 https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/892807890725154820 On things that could get a 'Grand Bargain', this isn't too bad. Interesting to see this is what the Dems are trying to force Trump's hand on. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 02:13
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Kokoro Wish posted:Just read through all the dumb poo poo about truancy and criminalising it. Here's the thing. Yes, that's all well and good. But truancy isn't actually criminalized. Refusing to take reasonable measures to supervise and encourage your child to attend school is criminalized. I dare say even with better schools, some students will still want to ditch class, and parents will still need to supervise and encourage attendance.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:14
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Condiv posted:an appropriately empowered DoL would help prevent that. extreme penalties for wage theft via H1B visas would be good too imo
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Aug 3, 2017 02:15
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, that's all well and good. But truancy isn't actually criminalized. Refusing to take reasonable measures to supervise and encourage your child to attend school is criminalized. I dare say even with better schools, some students will still want to ditch class, and parents will still need to supervise and encourage attendance. That doesn't address the root causes of people that truant though. That should always be part of the solution, as such authoritarian means of punishment are just bashing someone over the head for having a problem. Plus, given that America has a widespread private prison/justice problem, it only incentivizes never solving the actual problems, but infact aggravating it to increase recidivism, because that's how you make the moolah. Plus you're affirming that link between schooling and the justice system, which again is authoritarian as gently caress. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 02:16
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Sneakster posted:That doesn't make any sense. We both know labor rights are dead, penalties wouldn't be enforced, and the H1Bs exist almost solely for doing lower level marginally technical work solely to undercut domestic labor. uh i don't agree and i specifically want the DoL to be reimpowered. why should i agree to maintain the status quo of weak labor laws? that's not what i'm interested in at all
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Aug 3, 2017 02:18
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Kokoro Wish posted:That doesn't address the root causes of people that truant though. That should always be part of the solution, as such authoritarian means of punishment are just bashing someone over the head for having a problem. Plus, given that America has a widespread private prison/justice problem, it only incentivizes never solving the actual problems, but infact aggravating it to increase recidivism, because that's how you make the moolah. Plus you're affirming that link between schooling and the justice system, which again is authoritarian as gently caress. One of the causes of truancy is negligence on the part of parents, which better schools won't address. I'm affirming a link between willful child neglect and the justice system, which apparently you think shouldn't exist.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:21
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Oh god, I forgot I was talking to JC, the Pissflaps of US threads.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:23
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This thread is the pissflaps of US threads.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:25
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Condiv posted:uh i don't agree and i specifically want the DoL to be reimpowered. why should i agree to maintain the status quo of weak labor laws? that's not what i'm interested in at all Oh sweet Jesus. Very different from Trump. Give it two weeks for Schumer to be photo shopped wrastlin' a fox logo. JeffersonClay posted:One of the causes of truancy is negligence on the part of parents, which better schools won't address. I'm affirming a link between willful child neglect and the justice system, which apparently you think shouldn't exist. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 02:26
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Someone photoshop Hillary's face into a yellow beholder and make it his avatar
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Aug 3, 2017 02:26
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I'm sorry, which party passed NAFTA again? 
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Aug 3, 2017 02:32
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Mister Facetious posted:I'm sorry, which party passed NAFTA again?
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Aug 3, 2017 02:38
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JeffersonClay posted:One of the causes of truancy is negligence on the part of parents, which better schools won't address. I'm affirming a link between willful child neglect and the justice system, which apparently you think shouldn't exist. That is not what this law is about. Before Harris enacted the law, 20% of California's K-6 students were truant at least once. That is now criminalized. You can't possibly argue that 20% of the parents of California are criminally neglecting their children. This law is about shifting the blame for the failing school system from government to parents. It's about punishing parents who can't afford a charter school and don't want to send their kids to a dangerous, filthy public school. It is not about fixing the education system, it's about marginalizing poor people more.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:54
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xFurious Corey Booker's on MSNBC right now appealing to single-issue weed voters, get ready for your heel turn.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:54
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Hey if Corey Booker can undo his neoliberal belief system then America has a future.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:02
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:That is not what this law is about. Before Harris enacted the law, 20% of California's K-6 students were truant at least once. That is now criminalized. You can't possibly argue that 20% of the parents of California are criminally neglecting their children. You fundamentally misunderstand the law. It only allows prosecution in cases with chronic truancy, defined as unexcused absence for over 10% of the school year. 20% of students are not chronically truant. Additionally, every parent of a chronically truant student is not neglecting their child. The law criminalizes parents who fail to provide "reasonable supervision and encouragement" to their child to attend school. "Reasonable supervision" is a standard in determining guilt in other varieties of child abuse, as well. "Reasonable supervision" could mean you are in contact with the school or your child's teacher and are aware of their attendance, and "encouragement" could mean you told the student to go to school, with some positive or negative consequence. This is not a difficult standard for a typical parent to meet. "I told him to go to school, but he wont' listen, I've tried [reasonable parenting practice]" is a valid defense here. Additionally, the state is required to provide the parents of chronically truant students with training and support in providing that "reasonable supervision and encouragement", before attempting prosecution. Only when those standards are met can someone be successfully prosecuted here, and if so, there are a significant number of diversions, including but not limited to, drug treatment, mental health counseling the court can consider before fines or jail. quote:This law is about shifting the blame for the failing school system from government to parents. It's about punishing parents who can't afford a charter school and don't want to send their kids to a dangerous, filthy public school. It is not about fixing the education system, it's about marginalizing poor people more. This law is about criminalizing child neglect. It's about giving school districts leverage over parents who say "my child doesn't need to attend school". It's about deterring child abuse. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 03:07
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Crowsbeak posted:Hey if Corey Booker can undo his neoliberal belief system then America has a future. Yeah, but he wants a free market solution to the weed problem when everyone knows the government makes the best drugs. 
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Aug 3, 2017 03:11
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Ah, got to love the argument that its good for children to see their parents thrown in jail.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:11
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It can be good for the children of abusive parents that those parents be prosecuted by the state, yes.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:15
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Good luck convincing the internet's oldest lawschool warmonger webring that becoming a loving prosecutor isn't a blameless career choice
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Aug 3, 2017 03:16
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JeffersonClay posted:You fundamentally misunderstand the law. It only allows prosecution in cases with chronic truancy, defined as unexcused absence for over 10% of the school year. lmfao
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Aug 3, 2017 03:18
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holy poo poo i hope my child doesnt decide to skip school more than one day every two weeks or i have to justify myself to some dipshit or face prison
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Aug 3, 2017 03:20
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Regardless of the intent of the law it sounds like it uh, might be bad
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Aug 3, 2017 03:22
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Hope I'm never put in a situation where I'm forced to work 60 hours a week while raising a child by myself. I guess being in that type of situation would be pretty negligent of me. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 03:25
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Lol if you didn't literally skip at least one day every two weeks while in highschool if you couldn't get away with it. That's not child abuse or neglect, that's ME saying gently caress SCHOOL AND gently caress YOUR SYSTEM, MAN.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:26
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The Kingfish posted:Hope I'm never put in a situation where I'm forced to work 60 hours a week while raising a child by myself. Well you see non-wealthy single moms don't actually deserve their kids because
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Aug 3, 2017 03:27
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Razputeen posted:holy poo poo i hope my child doesnt decide to skip school more than one day every two weeks or i have to justify myself to some dipshit or face prison You might have to justify your parenting to the state if you are objectively failing at it oh the humanity
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Aug 3, 2017 03:28
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Mister Facetious posted:I'm sorry, which party passed NAFTA again? Republicans passed it. The deal was signed by Bush, less than half of congressional Democrats (102/258, 27/57) and about 3/4ths congressional Republicans (132/176, 34/43) voted to ratify it, and then the ratification approved by Clinton
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Aug 3, 2017 03:28
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Mecha Gojira posted:Lol if you didn't literally skip at least one day every two weeks while in highschool if you couldn't get away with it. That's not child abuse or neglect, that's ME saying gently caress SCHOOL AND gently caress YOUR SYSTEM, MAN. Oh the law also excludes highschool, it's only up to 8th grade.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:29
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like Clinton's handprints aside, NAFTA was negotiated by a Republican president, and had Republicans leading the charge for its ratification in Congress. This is kinda important?
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Aug 3, 2017 03:30
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Shukaro posted:Well you see non-wealthy single moms don't actually deserve their kids because Well they should have kept their legs together. Now their children we be put in the care of the state in a work house.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:30
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Accusing everyone that thinks throwing parents into jail instead of addressing what's causing the problem it's poverty as advocates of child abuse is about a credible as everyone in this thread accusing you of being a supporter of child rape for wanting to throw these kids down the monstrous hell-maw of the foster care system.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:31
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The Kingfish posted:Hope I'm never put in a situation where I'm forced to work 60 hours a week while raising a child by myself. JeffersonClay posted:You might have to justify your parenting to the state if you are objectively failing at it oh the humanity
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Aug 3, 2017 03:32
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JeffersonClay posted:Oh the law also excludes highschool, it's only up to 8th grade. Actually, the way the law is worded, you can be on the hook for misdemeanor "contributing to the deliquency of a minor," which itself potentially carries a $2,500 fine and a year-long jail sentence source ON TOP of their definition of "chronic truancy" which applies to the K-8.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:36
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