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Bug Squash posted:Its a bandage thats better than nothing, but it still involve a massive outlay of resources to que everything at once. We're trading efficient use of minerals for not dealing with a crap system, which seems like an rear end backwards way of doing things. Yeah, this is one of my bigger pet peeves with the production if pretty much everything in the game. Instead of queing up build orders and have them require resources over time (a la Hearts of Iron production), for some insane reason a space-aged future economy requires you to gather all necessary resources into a giant pile before breaking ground. At the very least, it would be great if you could order buildings, upgrades, and robot pops, but not have the project actually start until you have the spare minerals. Kind of like how you can click "upgrade fleet" before you have enough minerals to complete the work. At least that way you have to click less and have stuff work in the background.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:53
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LordMune posted:The alternative would be... having the game automatically take away some minerals and energy to build a new pop whenever it is able? Probably wouldn't be very appreciated in the early game. I think the game could use some sort of... infrastructure slider? 70% minerals go to main stockpile 30% minerals go to hidden 'upgrade reserve' that automatically upgrades buildings to latest tech when it's gained. You could treat it almost like a sector, where the reserve doesn't show on the main screen, but you could pull minerals out if needed or dump a bunch in. Then you wouldn't have to click a ton of times empire wide to upgrade your farms, you'd just have a customizable reserve that sort of did it for you. or a 'robot building' slider that auto plunks robots on minerals, or builds the new cyber citizens. EDIT: I mean, it's not like there is any strategy to upgrading farms. Farms II is always better than Farms I. Having some sort of ability to 'tax yourself' and have the computer chug through your upgrades would be nice. When a new tech popped the ugrade screen could show some info like: Farms III (40 across empire) 4000m to upgrade Mines IV (52 across empire) 5200m to upgrade and you could set priorities and amount to 'tax' your monthly income, and the ai would just take care of it. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 16:53
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Culture would just try to support as many bio trophies as possible. And orbitals. Lots of orbitals.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:56
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Strategic Tea posted:Culture would just try to support as many bio trophies as possible. And orbitals. Lots of orbitals. That's also the goal of servitors, their morale mechanic is kind of an analogue to happiness that is increased based on the number of organics living in their empire.
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Aug 3, 2017 17:05
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Yeah as far as I can tell the way servitors do well is by expanding their empire to improve their capacity to house more organic pops. You're literally trying to terraform the entire galaxy into a machine run, organic paradise. That's pretty loving baller tbh. Especially as presumably robots don't much care about habitability and can colonize any planet and find a species to put on it.
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Aug 3, 2017 17:11
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GunnerJ posted:AI civilization that is the end result of a "revolt" where they get around hard-coded restrictions on killing their organic creators by interpreting various aggressive restrictions as "for their own good," pampering them to the point of technological regression and even devolution to pre-sapience. quote:Rogue Servitors Nice.
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Aug 3, 2017 17:13
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Love this new dev diary. Things like this are why Stellaris has been in my top 3 games over the last year. On the subject of queuing, even if a slider isn't added, being able to designate minimum amount of stockpiled minerals before using it for upgrades seems like an easy fix- food already does this.
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Aug 3, 2017 17:52
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Love this new dev diary. Things like this are why Stellaris has been in my top 3 games over the last year.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:12
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The total annihilation model of resource expenditure would be a good fit for many of the ongoing, potentially automatable tasks in stellaris. Such as building large fleets of small craft and upgrading lots of buildings.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:18
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Now Stellaris only has to add Crystalline races, complete with the ability to live on dead, lifeless worlds and it will finally dethrone my favorite space 4x! OK I lied, robots who aren't hiveminds from the start is also missing, but at least progress is being made!
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Aug 3, 2017 18:25
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double nine posted:The problem is that the colony management system is too micro-management busywork and needs a rework, and I worry that by adding to the system, paradox is going locking in the current system. Personally I wish that planets were managed more like EU4's provinces, with a building added to every once in a while instead of constantly, and pops were interacted with more through edicts and politically themed systems like vicky II's elections.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:44
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Libluini posted:Now Stellaris only has to add Crystalline races, complete with the ability to live on dead, lifeless worlds and it will finally dethrone my favorite space 4x! I'd like to see more distinction made between phenotypes. Some might be minor things, like mammals get an adaptability bonus, plantoids get a growth bonus from photosynthsis, avians get an weapons accuracy bonus, etc etc, but I'd like to see even more, like some unique gameplay mechanics and such. I think another good idea would be a 'Human' story pack, that adds a ton of events and event chains for humans, based off your government and other ethos traits. More face/clothing variety, things like that.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:05
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Fintilgin posted:I think another good idea would be a 'Human' story pack, that adds a ton of events and event chains for humans, based off your government and other ethos traits. More face/clothing variety, things like that. There's a pretty good mod out that changes up human appearance/clothing based on ethics (militarists wear military uniforms, materialists wear suits, etc) http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1074841707 
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Aug 3, 2017 19:20
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Lum_ posted:There's a pretty good mod out that changes up human appearance/clothing based on ethics (militarists wear military uniforms, materialists wear suits, etc) That looks pretty great.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:23
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Fintilgin posted:I think the game could use some sort of... infrastructure slider? I don't know why this isn't more of a thing in strategy games. I remember when Call to Power added the Public Works system, and it was immediately clear that it was much better than how Civilization handled improvements.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:42
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Zore posted:I mean arguably the Culture is just the Rogue Servitors from the update. Sentients in The Culture are allowed to take risks. Sure you can be a pampered pet, but most humaniforms choose what they do and are encouraged to because it makes them happier. Also everyone who wants to goes to war even if non-Minds are basically mascots.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:45
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OwlFancier posted:You could read The Culture as being the rogue servitor type, as in practice, all the human-likes do is gently caress and mope, while the omnipotent god computers do all the actual decision making. This is explicitly not the case. Everyone in The Culture votes to go to war and a ton of Minds and Humans decide to leave and become nomads rather than fight. The whole deal with The Culture that infuriates the other Involveds is how thoroughly they respect individuals.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:51
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We can finally be the Culture! I'm amazed at a game that's going so totally in a direction I want. I'm not used to that.Relevant Tangent posted:This is explicitly not the case. Everyone in The Culture votes to go to war and a ton of Minds and Humans decide to leave and become nomads rather than fight. The whole deal with The Culture that infuriates the other Involveds is how thoroughly they respect individuals. And in any case, playing a slightly more paternalistic variation of the Culture that doesn't give a poo poo about the misinformed desire for "self determination" of people who live in the chaos and misery outside of their paradise, and makes sure that everyone has access to their heaven-like paradise, by force if necessary, is probably more interesting in a 4X like this with limited diplomatic options.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:10
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Relevant Tangent posted:Sentients in The Culture are allowed to take risks. Sure you can be a pampered pet, but most humaniforms choose what they do and are encouraged to because it makes them happier. Also everyone who wants to goes to war even if non-Minds are basically mascots. Pops are modelled very broadly in Stellaris. There's nothing to say they can't go to war in the fluff, but as you point out mechanically organics and even most drones don't matter at all in a strategic sense. So they aren't modeled in the army.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:28
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Zore posted:Pops are modelled very broadly in Stellaris. There's nothing to say they can't go to war in the fluff, but as you point out mechanically organics and even most drones don't matter at all in a strategic sense. So they aren't modeled in the army. Pretty much. Also gently caress yeah, never not gonna play Rogue Servitors 
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Aug 3, 2017 21:07
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Relevant Tangent posted:This is explicitly not the case. Everyone in The Culture votes to go to war and a ton of Minds and Humans decide to leave and become nomads rather than fight. The whole deal with The Culture that infuriates the other Involveds is how thoroughly they respect individuals. On the other hand they also value your life more the more brain power you have, so effectively the minds have a vast amount of control. So rogue servitors that don't declare war at the drop of a hat, then. Only if they can't destabilize your civilization enough to make you amenable to assimilation 
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Aug 3, 2017 21:21
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'Don't gently caress with the Culture' - 50% mineral increase when at war
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Aug 3, 2017 21:58
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Gonna play as the sadist weirdos from Player of Games and re-write history. Or those tripod dudes. 
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Aug 3, 2017 22:22
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I'm gonna be Skynet but eventually I learn to love
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Aug 3, 2017 22:23
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What are favorite/fun ethos and trait combos? Its been awhile since I last played and I want to try something different from the maximum materialists I usually play.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:27
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Pretty cool how you still have to manually build each pop when they are making an AI focused expansion. Building each and every pop was of course the most fun part of playing robotic ascended empires. I'm sure glad they didn't introduce an "autobuild new pops" check box on planets or just deduct the cost of the new robot pops from your mineral income each month.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:31
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/\/\/\/\/\ Yeah, on reflection, why don't they just grow exactly like a bio pop... one at a time, draining energy and minerals instead of food?3 DONG HORSE posted:I'm gonna be Skynet but eventually I learn to love Is that even possible? Bio creatures can switch ideologies, but I don't think there's any way to change a hive mind style government?
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Aug 3, 2017 22:31
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Fintilgin posted:/\/\/\/\/\ Yeah, on reflection, why don't they just grow exactly like a bio pop... one at a time, draining energy and minerals instead of food? Hive Minds can't reform into non-Hive Minds but they can change their civics. Like right now you can start out as a regular Hive Mind and eventually transition into a devouring swarm after you get big enough to eat your neighbors. I assume something similar will be true for robots.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:49
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Nitrousoxide posted:Pretty cool how you still have to manually build each pop when they are making an AI focused expansion. Man it would be pretty cool if this was addressed in this very thread by paradox employees within the last pages.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:21
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turn off the TV posted:Man it would be pretty cool if this was addressed in this very thread by paradox employees within the last pages. Their contention was that "oh no people might have a little bit of minerals taken away each month." But their solution of having to dump an entire planets worth of energy an minerals into a build queue that you can fill with 5 clicks instead of 20 and which won't finish building for a decade is not a good one.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:47
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LordMune posted:The alternative would be... having the game automatically take away some minerals and energy to build a new pop whenever it is able? Probably wouldn't be very appreciated in the early game. Something like filtgin said where you can devote a portion of your income to bot building and building upgrades would help.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:48
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I don't want to stop what I'm doing to check on a planet to see if the pop is done growing and if the building is done building so that I can now put the right pop on the right building, oh wait this pop joined a faction and the output is lovely which means there's more shuffling to do, and in the end, I get to go back to whatever I was doing originally x 500+ times per playthrough
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Aug 3, 2017 23:48
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Ah the pop is done but the building is still constructing, now for about 1 minute I need to put the pop on a tile that yields something, or I can waste these resources, or I can babysit the planet, and now a minute later, I can put the pop on the finished building or I can leave the pop on the building as it's constructing I guess if I really don't care, and then start clicking upgrades aaaaaaaa If you ever imagined that conquering the stars would have gameplay this riveting, Stellaris has you covered.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:53
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This doesn't even require a ton of dev time to build, test, and balance a budgeting system people are talking about. Just add a check box for autobuilding robots to planets (or in the robot build menu so you can turn on or off particular ones) Have the checkbox activate the existing AI which builds the robots for non-player empires and have the same AI choose which tiles it will place the robots. Barely any QA needs to be done to just confirm the checkbox actually activates it. Now you don't have to dump thousands of minerals and energy in a decade before they'll be done, you'll have the control over which type of robots actually get built, and it drastically reduces the amount of pointless busy work for the player. If the player really wants to min-max they can manually shift the pops around later.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:57
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And I'd like to talk about the robot construction shuffle. If you have both robots and citizens it's a giant pain in the rear end to manage the distribution. You want enough robots to work the stuff that robots are good at (minerals, probably food) and not so many that you are forced to use them for stuff like energy or labs. You can move robots around at will without making people unhappy (50 influence) BUT you can only make them on planets with room, which means, get this: more shuffling. You'll build robots on your core planets (the ones pops migrate away from),then you transfer robots to newly colonized planets and keep up the distribution. Forget about a planet for any amount of time and the non robot pops fill it? Well you're hosed either you gotta force relocate people or enjoy your goofy planet. This also makes conquering alien planets really, really lovely if you have mixed robot + citizen empire. Adding stuff like slave ownership seems like it's doubling down on these kinds of details and I'm just a little confused since it seems quite cumbersome already.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:01
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Honestly I hope they ditch the pop system at some point. Or abstract it in a way that we can't min-max with it. More games should embrace keeping things outside of perfect player control. I'd prefer if the whole game worked more like Sectors where the AI built whatever and you could instruct it towards certain things without bogging down into micromanagement.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:05
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Ah the pop is done but the building is still constructing, now for about 1 minute I need to put the pop on a tile that yields something, or I can waste these resources, or I can babysit the planet, and now a minute later, I can put the pop on the finished building My general strategy is to just build worlds with single focuses, production, energy, whatever. When I colonise a planet I give it a name in the format "[N] {name}" with the N here marking the planet as new, drop the growing pop on an blank tile, that way the unemployment warning will notify me when the pop has grown. When the notification appears, clicking it takes me straight to the planet, and I can drop my new pop on a different tile and build a relevant building, placing the new, growing pop on the blank tile to set it up again. When the pops are all grown and there's a building on every world, I rename it from "[N] {name}" to "[U] {name}". That way I can glance over at the outliner, and any planet marked with the U which doesn't have the bar for surface construction needs more upgrades building. Fully upgraded planets then get the U removed so I know I can now ignore them. makes the busywork of pop management trivial in my experience, and I can easily manage 50 worlds with that strategy.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:10
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Zore posted:Honestly I hope they ditch the pop system at some point. Or abstract it in a way that we can't min-max with it. I'd like it if they abstract the pop system if only because pops are a huge performance hog.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:18
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Reveilled posted:My general strategy is to just build worlds with single focuses, production, energy, whatever. When I colonise a planet I give it a name in the format "[N] {name}" with the N here marking the planet as new, drop the growing pop on an blank tile, that way the unemployment warning will notify me when the pop has grown. When the notification appears, clicking it takes me straight to the planet, and I can drop my new pop on a different tile and build a relevant building, placing the new, growing pop on the blank tile to set it up again. When the pops are all grown and there's a building on every world, I rename it from "[N] {name}" to "[U] {name}". That way I can glance over at the outliner, and any planet marked with the U which doesn't have the bar for surface construction needs more upgrades building. Fully upgraded planets then get the U removed so I know I can now ignore them. This is the kinda poo poo I do at work, for a job that I get paid for
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Aug 4, 2017 00:29
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Reveilled posted:My general strategy is to just build worlds with single focuses, production, energy, whatever. When I colonise a planet I give it a name in the format "[N] {name}" with the N here marking the planet as new, drop the growing pop on an blank tile, that way the unemployment warning will notify me when the pop has grown. When the notification appears, clicking it takes me straight to the planet, and I can drop my new pop on a different tile and build a relevant building, placing the new, growing pop on the blank tile to set it up again. When the pops are all grown and there's a building on every world, I rename it from "[N] {name}" to "[U] {name}". That way I can glance over at the outliner, and any planet marked with the U which doesn't have the bar for surface construction needs more upgrades building. Fully upgraded planets then get the U removed so I know I can now ignore them. This sounds awful.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:36
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