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kcroy posted:hey can you link the AMA? He's the first poster here.
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Aug 4, 2017 05:05
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kcroy posted:hey can you link the AMA? https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/6r3hba/unholy_consultation_r_scott_bakker_bares_the_soul/ He's evasive on a lot of answers but some are less so: quote:Q: i get that the gods can't see Kelmomas, but was it possible for Kellhus as a human to unravel the nature of the threat he posed? Given the Yatwer face concealer Sorweel was wearing, it's understandable that Kellhus never understood Sorweel was the WLW and missed the significance of what happened. But was it possible for him to unravel what happened with the other WLW? In other words, did he just never have a chance to figure it out because Kelmomas is outside the outside or can we take it that Kellhus failed because he wasn't looking closely enough at things that were right under his nose. quote:Q: Anyway, here's my barrage of questions: quote:Q: When did Ajokli and Kellhus reach an agreement? Did it ever happen or was Kellhus "ambushed" by Ajokli in the Golden Room (since it is topos it was possible for Ajokli to enter the world). I have a hard time imagining that this was what The Thousandfold Thought was supposed to lead to. If Kellhus made a bargain with Ajokli already at the circumfixion (as some suggest) it seems to me that TTT died with Moenghus and all the plans and The Great Ordeal was really the actions of an avatar of Ajokli, designed to elevate him above all other gods.
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Aug 4, 2017 06:35
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Alright, that Q&A actually shed a fair bit of light on stuff, but I wish it had been better portrayed in the text itself. I feel Bakker juggles away from some POV characters to preserve pet mysteries, which is fair, but also creates needless confusion (not to mention encouraging all kinds of speculation). I even enjoy his bit about the supposed Dunyain weakness of being so consumed by logic that their souls are actually feeble. Maybe emotions are the thing that gives your will proper intensity. That said, I wonder why the Consult even had any issue clearing Ishual once they sent in he Quya sorcerers. Just do a Cant of Compulsion on one monk to infiltrate and murder the others, or to give you a map of the catacombs, rinse and repeat. Actually, I think other than being mentioned a couple of times, no one actually uses Compulsion in the books despite how tremendously useful it would be.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:50
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Memnaelar posted:I remember when there were mods who could serve as a bulwark against the threadshitting. Sorry folks, I had a lightning strike hit my desktop so I've been unable to use my mod buttons for like two weeks while I got my PC rebuilt. That said, the general rule I use is that as long as a post is intelligent and uses multiple complete sentences, and doesn't break any obvious rules (racism, etc) it's probably fine. The reason for that rule is that if I try to become a highly involved Thread Policeman it just draws even more trolling ("That was a smart post, why was it bad, the mods are poo poo, gently caress you" etc.) and in the end is counterproductive anyway. And I like reading Lamp's posts because they're intelligent and interesting. But I can understand why they'd be annoying to people who just want to talk about a book that just came out, too. And right now this thread is generating like 4/5ths of all the reports I'm getting in this forum, so clearly it's a problem a lot of people agree is a probllem. I'm not sure how to resolve that conundrum -- anyone with ideas, please PM me (rather than further derailing the thread). Lamps, maybe hold off for a couple weeks in this thread to give people some time to discuss the new title? Or else start a separate thread for posting hate-reading or criticism (a thread like that would have a lot of potential I think). kcroy posted:What is the etiquete on spoiler tagging? Like, do we keep it up for a month or two? Forum rule is six months after a new release but normally I just edit in spoiler tags when it's reported. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 14:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:And I like reading Lamp's posts because they're intelligent and interesting. With that said - I'm glad you aren't being heavy handed. Appreciate that. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Forum rule is six months after a new release but normally I just edit in spoiler tags when it's reported. Sephyr posted:Alright, that Q&A actually shed a fair bit of light on stuff, but I wish it had been better portrayed in the text itself. I feel Bakker juggles away from some POV characters to preserve pet mysteries, which is fair, but also creates needless confusion (not to mention encouraging all kinds of speculation). Corvinus posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/6r3hba/unholy_consultation_r_scott_bakker_bares_the_soul/ Number Ten Cocks posted:He's the first poster here. Hey thanks for posting this stuff. I've read through some of it and letting it gel. I will say that Kellhus being "dead" doesn't really mean poo poo considering he's bounced between hell and what not, and claimed to be a God ( although that last part might have been propaganda I guess ). It is interesting to think that Kellus has been possessed ever since the TT, or since he came back from Hell. Remember when the non-men tested him? Wonder what they saw. side thought: I wonder if the nogod box had to like.. jam poo poo into people every time to test them. Cuz that think would have been pretty nasty afterwards. I got the impression that the line with slaves for testing moved at a decent clip. And it is suggested that the box killed anyone who didn't qualify. curious to know more about that I guess.
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Aug 6, 2017 08:01
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kcroy posted:wow really? I mean, I feel like he just makes poo poo up, avoids any arguments he is losing and calls people names for no reason. Don't get me wrong - I'm down for hate reading, I mean. I post in literally 3 threads, and 2 of them are about making GBS threads on GRRM. But Lampwhatever just seems like a troll more than anything. My advantage is that I have ideas, while fans do not. When disagreeing they end up reactively trying to reject these ideas so that they can go back to hollow plot speculation, even when those ideas are simple truths like that Bakker's fans like his style of writing. Sometimes it leads to glaring intellectual dishonesty like people arguing against McLuhan in vain hopes that it would somehow prove that Bakker's writing doesn't matter. For example, SickZip argued that McLuhan's motto was invalid as a principle, because it was based on television - even though anybody who reads Understanding Media would rather quickly notice that it's concerned with the history of all media, including print. You also argued that McLuhan's idea was invalid because "if we want to apply his theory to this book, it would equate this book to all other books published in this manner" - which is hilarious nonsense, because I am equating prose fiction with other prose fiction. Discussing literature does, in fact, require considering literature as a whole to some degree. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Lamps, maybe hold off for a couple weeks in this thread to give people some time to discuss the new title? Or else start a separate thread for posting hate-reading or criticism (a thread like that would have a lot of potential I think). Sure, that's reasonable. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 08:52
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No matter what differences we all may have, love these books, hate them, or somewhere in-between, I think we can all agree that R. Scott Bakker has a very straight dick and was cucked by a guy with a large, beautiful curve.
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Aug 6, 2017 12:30
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:No matter what differences we all may have, love these books, hate them, or somewhere in-between, I think we can all agree that R. Scott Bakker has a very straight dick and was cucked by a guy with a large, beautiful curve. I am so happy I am not the only person to think this.
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Aug 6, 2017 16:05
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:No matter what differences we all may have, love these books, hate them, or somewhere in-between, I think we can all agree that R. Scott Bakker has a very straight dick and was cucked by a guy with a large, beautiful curve. A guy called Likaro.
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Aug 6, 2017 16:39
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I just finished the first trilogy, I love the setting but I have to say, I thoroughly dislike just about every character. Achamian is the most sympathetic but even he irritates me when he pushes his hate aside to be in awe of Kelhuss. I'm eagerly looking forward to Kelhuss getting his poo poo pushed in at some point. Both Esmenet and Serwe are super annoying and unfortunately they're like the only two female characters other than the Emperors mom, who is also pretty lovely.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:37
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Mustang posted:I just finished the first trilogy, I love the setting but I have to say, I thoroughly dislike just about every character. Achamian is the most sympathetic but even he irritates me when he pushes his hate aside to be in awe of Kelhuss. I'm eagerly looking forward to Kelhuss getting his poo poo pushed in at some point. It's okay I read the first book of the second trilogy and Achamian fuckin sucks in it, and then shags his daughter, so (I didn't read past that book)
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Aug 6, 2017 23:57
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It's not his daughter.
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Aug 7, 2017 00:27
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These books have hundreds of pages of awful, overwrought prose about weird dicks, all to make the shockingly insightful point that free will is like, an illusion maaan. I still sincerely enjoy them though, it's like reading a novelization of a [take your pick] black metal album cover/tentacle porno/troubled 13 year old's notebook doodles. I wonder if Serwa going from minor character to action superhero is a lame attempt to address the female character deficit people rag on him for
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Aug 7, 2017 00:50
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Mustang posted:I just finished the first trilogy, I love the setting but I have to say, I thoroughly dislike just about every character. Achamian is the most sympathetic but even he irritates me when he pushes his hate aside to be in awe of Kelhuss. I'm eagerly looking forward to Kelhuss getting his poo poo pushed in at some point. Yeah I wasn't sure who I hated more, Kellhus or Achamian. I liked Cnaiur. That "we're all gonna die" speech he gives during the defense of the city is pretty baller.
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Aug 7, 2017 04:57
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Mustang posted:I just finished the first trilogy, I love the setting but I have to say, I thoroughly dislike just about every character. Achamian is the most sympathetic but even he irritates me when he pushes his hate aside to be in awe of Kelhuss. I'm eagerly looking forward to Kelhuss getting his poo poo pushed in at some point. It is not a series where you are supposed like the characters. Going through GO again at the moment and I still haven't figured out the head on a pole? Also, all the weird episodes with Kellhus fits together with the ending of TUC.
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Aug 7, 2017 07:33
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Cardiac posted:Going through GO again at the moment and I still haven't figured out the head on a pole? Since physically swapping heads is something he can do it might just have been his own head? Edit: Concerning the ending I think the split was a terrible decision. Also the lack of Kellhus POV made the buildup to the ending a bit unpredictable. His possession got worse the closer he came to the Ark according to Bakker AMA, but we had really no way of knowing that since normal Kel was already undecipherable. Also doesn't explain why he went back. Becoming the god of hate makes him miss Esmi??? Also interesting that Anko couldn't find him after his death. Is his soul hidden in the second head he carries? Or is there any connection to the second instant we have of missing souls, the Nonman Erratic that gets killed by the Ciphrang? genericnick fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 09:48
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Step 1 in the Earwan Manual for Apocalypse Avoidance should be "To prevent end of world, murder your wife and children". Those drat women are always causing No-Gods!
General Battuta fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 7, 2017 |
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Aug 7, 2017 18:49
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Your plagued wombs are making heaven too full
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Aug 8, 2017 00:48
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genericnick posted:. Is his soul hidden in the second head he carries? Or is there any connection to the second instant we have of missing souls, the Nonman Erratic that gets killed by the Ciphrang? Does this happen when Iokus is managing those demons? I thought he like pulled it off before it could feast or something. I'll need to re-read if that was the one.
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Aug 9, 2017 13:07
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These books are so goddamned weird and I can't stop reading them. I'm at the part in the catacombs where the mother supreme or whatever does that ritual introducing the White Luck Warrior.
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Aug 9, 2017 18:57
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I'm frankly surprised they continue to be published and aren't simply amazon offerings.
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Aug 9, 2017 19:18
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Kelhuss's children are just an insufferable as he is, I'm hoping that either the consult or Achamian manages to wipe their whole line out of existence. Kind of weird reading books and hoping the protagonist loses.
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Aug 9, 2017 19:40
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Not so weird. It's how I read Harry Potter!
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Aug 9, 2017 21:21
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Mustang posted:These books are so goddamned weird and I can't stop reading them. I'm at the part in the catacombs where the mother supreme or whatever does that ritual introducing the White Luck Warrior. That's not even as weird as it gets.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:23
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Mustang posted:Kelhuss's children are just an insufferable as he is, I'm hoping that either the consult or Achamian manages to wipe their whole line out of existence. I always thought Achamian was the protaganist. Too bad he's a libcuck. #MAGA #MakeApocalypseGreatAgain
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Aug 10, 2017 01:51
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I read it as Kelhuss as the protagonist since he's trying to save the world or whatever. His kids almost as annoying as he is, kayutas is an arrogant prick, kelmomas is a psychopath, and moenghus is an insane mute bodybuilder. It's just grating how everyone literally worships the guy as a god. Achamian gets cucked by him and teaches him the gnosis for some dumb reason.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:53
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Mustang posted:I read it as Kelhuss as the protagonist since he's trying to save the world or whatever. yeah I agree it is grating. I guess that makes it a bit fulfilling to see him betraying everyone. Interesting to go back and rethink this as him being increasingly possessed. I never would have gotten that from the book text alone. The kids are all one dimensional except maybe Serwe and Kelmomas, just because we get more time spent with them. I like Werwe ok -she's interesting enough, and I wanted good things to happen to her, but her death was pretty baller - can't ask for more than that. I'll take this opportunity to bitch again about Sorweel's death. I would have liked a bit more of the transition between him and the WLW - it's sort of like he just disappears and would have been nice to have some closing thoughts from him. I felt we got pretty invested with him, and it felt more like he got "written out" of a show, rather than had a natural ending. Not sure what I'm looking for here - maybe just some more internal monologue about the change? I mean was he sort of just a passive passenger on a Being John Malkovich experience? They went into all this detail about his magic helm and how that changed him, blah blah blah and then just killed him right afterwards.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:03
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Mustang you shouldn't read any of those spoilers.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:08
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Everything of the end of TUC is heavily hinted on in TGO. But at least to me, very little of it was obvious until after TUC. i still don't get the Narindar. If Kellhus is Ajokli, why would an assassin of Ajokli aim to assassinate him?
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Aug 10, 2017 07:59
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Cardiac posted:Everything of the end of TUC is heavily hinted on in TGO. But at least to me, very little of it was obvious until after TUC. Doesn't. He gets replaced by the WLW.
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Aug 10, 2017 08:04
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Mustang posted:I read it as Kelhuss as the protagonist since he's trying to save the world or whatever. The Kelmomas chapters got kind of repetitive, but I would read a good thousand pages of Esmenet's House of Fun and not get bored. Imagine trying to change a toddler's diaper while it pauses to remind you that you don't really exist. Wonderful fun!
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Aug 10, 2017 09:11
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Mustang posted:These books are so goddamned weird and I can't stop reading them. I'm at the part in the catacombs where the mother supreme or whatever does that ritual introducing the White Luck Warrior. That's pretty much what keeps me going on this series. It can be a frustrating read sometimes (often) but seeing LOTR crossed with blood meridian crossed with dune and whatever else be so bizarre and unpredictable is very intriguing to me. Also I have always really appreciated that the ridiculously evil bad guys have a motivation that could possibly justify their actions to some. Knowing that you are going to hell and knowing what hell is is so much better than "I am going to kill everyone coz I am evil mwahaha". That being said I don't relate at all to the technical breakdowns in this thread as to why the series is good or bad. I usually view any sort of "art" as something that is entirely subjective to the viewer, like how you can see a painting worth millions and it seems so obviously great or ugly and dumb straight away to you. If I didn't enjoy the books I would just stop reading. And if they weren't written the way they are it wouldn't be the same series and would prob have diff problems related to that writing style for a series so weird and metaspiritual or however you'd describe it. I don't intend this as a jab to anyone that's posting about it at all, each to their own. And without this thread I would of missed so much of the weird stuff going on with the series that makes it cool to me.
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Aug 10, 2017 14:11
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I was reading through the AMA, and this struck me / bummed me out: "So for over 30 years now I've lived with the certainty that I would die before completing The Aspect-Emperor. For me, in a powerful sense, the story ends here with the death of Kellhus and the birth of the No-God. I've scribbled down countless ideas and scenes pertaining to The No-God in the interim, but I have nothing resembling the thousandfold thought born in that teenager's fantasy/philosophy besotted head all those years ago. No grand plan. For the first time in my life I find myself a 'discovery writer.'" So while there might be more, I think it is interesting that the waking of no-god was the end game for him. It was always planned, and everything moved towards that. It feels like it should be viewed as a completed work. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Where is my happy ending lol?!
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Aug 12, 2017 11:05
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If he has the guts to stick with this ending, I'll be a happy reader. Honestly, it's perfect.
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Aug 12, 2017 13:33
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I could have used less depravity in the early marching bits, but I liked this. I'm also ok with ending it here, he obviously found the Anasurimbor parts of the first apocalypse the most interesting (almost no Seswatha dreams of the later southern fights and defeat of the no-God), a repeat of that in the first two series was good.
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Aug 12, 2017 19:16
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:If he has the guts to stick with this ending, I'll be a happy reader. Honestly, it's perfect. Ehh, have to disagree there. It's still a cop-out and makes a LOT of stuff entirely pointless: Cnaiur, Mimara, all of Ishual, the Judging Eye, the entire pantheon, Achamian's changing dreams... It might be passable if the writing and plot had been less tangled. But when people can't even be sure of what the gods really care about, what the No-God even is (is he even sapient or just a tool?) and so on, it feels like a poor conclusion. I don't need a happy ending, but storylines should be resolved with actual skill and closure. Unless the whole moral of the story is "nothing matters lol", which is apropos to the zeitgeist but not something I think deserves 6 books to get to.
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Aug 12, 2017 19:43
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Number Ten Cocks posted:I could have used less depravity in the early marching bits, but I liked this. I'm also ok with ending it here, he obviously found the Anasurimbor parts of the first apocalypse the most interesting (almost no Seswatha dreams of the later southern fights and defeat of the no-God), a repeat of that in the first two series was good. I could have done with less eating dead men's cocks and then thinking about how great they tasted later. I think that was the first time I've been seriously squicked out in this series.
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Aug 13, 2017 00:06
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kcroy posted:I could have done with less eating dead men's cocks and then thinking about how great they tasted later. I think that was the first time I've been seriously squicked out in this series. C'mon, who doesn't like sausages?
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Aug 13, 2017 00:08
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Aug 13, 2017 00:10
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Sephyr posted:Unless the whole moral of the story is "nothing matters lol", which is apropos to the zeitgeist but not something I think deserves 6 books to get to. Does the ending qualify as a weirdly literal twist on "Deus ex Machina"?
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Aug 13, 2017 00:18
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