Halloween Jack posted:

Playing devil's advocate, part of the propaganda for D20 was that there were too many publishers with mediocre in-house systems which they'd created just for the sake of having one. And that was absolutely true. In 2000 there were way too many house systems that all superficially resembled Storyteller/Shadowrun--even when the core mechanic was different, the character sheets looked alike.

frankenfreak posted:

Well, you seem to take his word for it, but in the same quote he says

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yeah this was a new angle for me, but the System Mastery dudes did also mention this - the d20 license meant that if you just wanted to make a setting but weren't a mechanics guy, you could just piggyback off of the d20 mechanics and call it good.

Halloween Jack posted:

Playing devil's advocate, part of the propaganda for D20 was that there were too many publishers with mediocre in-house systems which they'd created just for the sake of having one. And that was absolutely true. In 2000 there were way too many house systems that all superficially resembled Storyteller/Shadowrun--even when the core mechanic was different, the character sheets looked alike.

unseenlibrarian posted:

Technically Vampire was a lovely Nightlife clone!

(Vampire came out like a year later, but it was probably 'both of them were working on it at the same time.')

mango sentinel posted:

I only know Nightlife from the System Mastery episode but this cover will be forever a monument within my psyche.

mango sentinel posted:

I only know Nightlife from the System Mastery episode but this cover will be forever a monument within my psyche.

mango sentinel posted:

I only know Nightlife from the System Mastery episode but this cover will be forever a monument within my psyche.

unseenlibrarian posted:

Technically Vampire was a lovely Nightlife clone!

(Vampire came out like a year later, but it was probably 'both of them were working on it at the same time.')

theironjef posted:

While this was certainly 100% true, I find it weird that it would be a motivation for WOTC to try and fix the industry. It's not like lovely paperback Vampire clones like Nightlife and Legacy: War of Ages were going to tear down the industry, they were just going to quietly fail on their very own.

theironjef posted:

Oh man that completely ruins my personal fantasy narrative. Nightlife really looks like they took at look at White Wolf and said "I can get all this into one book."

Plutonis posted:

Is that a parody cover because I recognize the woman from a lovely van spray meme

mango sentinel posted:

I only know Nightlife from the System Mastery episode but this cover will be forever a monument within my psyche.

Len posted:

That woman has very pointy nipples

mango sentinel posted:

100% real and unironic. Here's a splatbook.

Plutonis posted:

Is that a parody cover because I recognize the woman from a lovely van spray meme

mango sentinel posted:

100% real and unironic. Here's a splatbook.

Hostile V posted:

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yeah this was a new angle for me, but the System Mastery dudes did also mention this - the d20 license meant that if you just wanted to make a setting but weren't a mechanics guy, you could just piggyback off of the d20 mechanics and call it good.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yeah this was a new angle for me, but the System Mastery dudes did also mention this - the d20 license meant that if you just wanted to make a setting but weren't a mechanics guy, you could just piggyback off of the d20 mechanics and call it good.

Kai Tave posted:

Of course most of the people who took this approach wound up creating something that was hot fuckin garbage and once the bubble burst most of it wound up cluttering shelves. If anything an argument can be made that the d20 OGL movement did more to cull the RPG hobby/industry that existed at the time than it did to help it flourish. But I mean this is Ryan Dancey we're talking about here, so.

LuiCypher posted:

The problem with the d20 crash is that it nearly took down the whole drat industry with it, regardless of whether or not you were involved in the d20 business. The proliferation of d20 and its impact on bottom lines became so pervasive that most companies (even White Wolf, which was the #2 company in the industry at the time) had to have a d20 product line because that's what people were buying. If you didn't get involved with d20, you went out of business because people/sellers were only interested in d20 products.

While that last part isn't completely true (reading Appelcline's 2000-2009 history demonstrates that indie RPGs got their start around this time, and the notion of Ron Edwards/D. Vincent Baker making anything d20-related is kind of hilarious), that became the reality for a lot of larger, more established companies.

Kai Tave posted:

It's not just a matter of publishers feeling compelled to hop onto the d20 train that then got dragged under by the crash, it's the fact that when the bubble burst it caused a lot of brick and mortar game stores to go under as well since they were now sitting on a bunch of inventory that they probably couldn't have moved even if they did slash prices to an extreme.

Evil Mastermind posted:

There's two stores I go to that still have shelves full of d20 poo poo they're never going to unload because they're trying to sell them at the MSRP instead of pricing it to move.

One of these stores doesn't carry any indie RPGs. Not even Dungeon World or Fate.

mango sentinel posted:

How many combined feet are the length of the owner's beard and circumference of his waist?

Evil Mastermind posted:

The current owner's actually pretty slim, but it's very much a grog store.

This is the place where, two weeks ago, I heard someone say that they play Pathfinder, but they have to ignore most of the rules to play it (which of course begs the question as to why they're playing it). This person also introduced someone to RPGs by sending her to the Pathfinder SRD.

Kai Tave posted:

It's not just a matter of publishers feeling compelled to hop onto the d20 train that then got dragged under by the crash, it's the fact that when the bubble burst it caused a lot of brick and mortar game stores to go under as well since they were now sitting on a bunch of inventory that they probably couldn't have moved even if they did slash prices to an extreme. Indie games were getting their start around that time yeah, but they hadn't quite made the transition to the indie TRPG scene as it exists today where crowdfunding and PoD are normalized processes. I remember seeing games like Burning Wheel on game store shelves, and after a while that became less of a feasible option as more and more stores closed their doors.

Evil Mastermind posted:

The current owner's actually pretty slim, but it's very much a grog store.

This is the place where, two weeks ago, I heard someone say that they play Pathfinder, but they have to ignore most of the rules to play it (which of course begs the question as to why they're playing it). This person also introduced someone to RPGs by sending her to the Pathfinder SRD.

LuiCypher posted:

1. She doesn't play RPGs anymore.
2. Said store is probably terribly laid out, with product being placed throughout the store seemingly on a whim.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I found an interview with Dancey, and found the other reason: to wipe out other RPGs.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/md/md20020228e

Halloween Jack posted:

Ryan Dancey is now an Extremely Cool and Good Director at Alderac Entertainment Group.


https://twitter.com/rsdancey/status/894921983133048832

Halloween Jack posted:

Ryan Dancey is now an Extremely Cool and Good Director at Alderac Entertainment Group.


https://twitter.com/rsdancey/status/894921983133048832

ProfessorCirno posted:

They took him back? Nepotism strikes again. Glad to see he's a giant shitlord to boot.

Halloween Jack posted:

No, I keep trying to tell you, he's the Vince Russo.

slap me and kiss me posted:

Playtest 006: Domain Management, Mass Combat, Mythic Foes

August has arrived, and with it, the 6th revision of the Let Thrones Beware Playtest. This iterative build refines the campaign cycle, adds preliminary domain management and mass combat, provides additional adversaries, and introduces new, uniquely dangerous mythic foes.

Playtest 006 Updates: GM Options

Non-Combat Challenges
Non-combat challenges have been provided more depth with the addition of background and foreground components and blockers. These components will make resolving non-combat challenges much more interesting, as heroes have to contend with a variety of new complicating factors.

Domain Management
Domain management is a new way for players to make their mark on Ceyenus. The heroes success or failure at resolving adventures manifests as changes in the campaign track; advances along the track allow the heroes to construct new enhancements (e.g. basic buildings such as a smithy or a stable at the adventurer tier). These enhancements provide additional resources to the heroes whenever they undertake a new adventure, and will allow the heroes to field a larger army when it comes to the ultimate battle between good and evil.

Mass Combat
Mass combat is the capstone of the campaign cycle. Depending on how well the heroes advanced the campaign track, the nefarious villain behind everything may launch an invasion. The heroes will assemble an army of allies based on how well they performed, and the pitched battle that results will determine the fate of the Deep Wood.

Adversaries
Two new adversaries have been added - one another faction in opposition to the heroes, and one something new entirely.

Mythic Foes
While most of the foes heroes face are surmountable with grit and determination, there are some opponents that cannot be defeated by mere force. These mythic foes pose significant danger, and can only be defeated by the heroes with significant preparation. In fact, if the heroes confront these foes without research and adequate preparation, they will quickly find themselves in an unwinnable situation.

Cult of Man
There exist secretive groups that seeks to discover the vile magics harnessed by the Kingdom to further their own goals. Venerating relics, unholy artifacts, and the bones of the dead, the Cult of Man seeks to uncover ancient secrets that hint at unleashing untold power. The Cult comes with a full compliment of adversaries of all types.

Playtest 006 Updates: Player Options
While 006 doesn't include a significant change to heroes, it does add one new item. Much like how each class has a special feature that provides additional utility in combat, each background now comes with an ability useable in non-combat challenges. This will help differentiate the different backgrounds from each other and will help make background selection even more of a meaningful choice.


Downloads

• Player's Guide
  
• Character Sheet
  
• GM Guide
  
• Adversaries
  
• PbP Character Sheet