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The Akira design is an unforgivable design plague upon the entire series.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:26
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jeeves posted:The Akira design is an unforgivable design plague upon the entire series. Nah but the single nacelle Cannoli Class ships just look ridiculous
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Aug 9, 2017 21:27
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The Bloop posted:Nah but the single nacelle Cannoli Class ships just look ridiculous Akira pre-dates these, however both are terrible designs but Akira barely looks like any other ship in Starfleet due to the weird hull design. It makes me wonder how much involvement Sternbach had with First Contact, as I know it was when John Eaves and his CGI kinda shitships gained prominance. Voyager looks amazing and a logical progression of Sternbach era way more than any First Contact ships looked, and I know Sternbach had heavy involvement with the beginning of that series. Then JJ Abrams took all the "OMG KEWL" look of First Contact and later ships and applied them to the original series ships. It's been all downhill since then, and I blame the Akira.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:34
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When I was a kid, Star Trek looked the best. After First Contact, it started looking lamer and lamer until now new versions of it look like more of a knock off of itself than actual parodies do I used to ascribe this to my just getting older but naw, that poo poo stopped making visual sense in 1996 and we all drat well know it
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Aug 9, 2017 21:42
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Lord Hydronium posted:Kelvin: Or, indeed, there's the original concept art for the Kelvin. 
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Aug 9, 2017 21:44
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Yeah, the Intrepid class is one of Sternbach's babies. Basically anything from 1979 to 1995 (and a bit later, but only in the TV side of things) looks good in no small part due to him. Come back Rick 
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Aug 9, 2017 21:44
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Pretty sure Sternbach designed the Equinox and the Prometheus. I'm honestly not sure Sternbach's blameless in the shifting designs of late Trek. I mean, it's not like TNG really introduced that many new Starfleet ships; it was just Stargazer (a slapdash -refit kitbash), Ambassador, Nebula (which was made out of Probert-designed parts), and the Pasteur, wasn't it? Eaves certainly deserves blame, but part of it might just also be 90's sensibilities infecting Star Trek.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:45
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Kazinsal posted:Yeah, the Intrepid class is one of Sternbach's babies. Woah, woah, woah. Andrew Probert did both the refit Enterprise in 1979 and the Enterprise-D, and the Romulan Warbird and Ferengi Marauder, as well as other ships. I have respect for Sternbach but honestly I'd be more excited to see Probert doing starships for Trek again.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:48
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I love how there's one Cardassian O'Brian gets along with and they bond over their shared hatred of Cardassians.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:53
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I love the Marauder and the later addition of the little grub shuttles. I always thought the Cardassian ships looked like planaria or something. It's interesting that the most organic looking ships are the Cardies and the Vulcans both of whom seem like they'd value function over form. I guess the Cardassians might value intimidating ships or something but they really aren't
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Aug 9, 2017 21:53
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Sternbach did a lot of the other things that we associate with Trek though, not just ships. The looks of the 24th century phasers (and their variants), tricorders, PADDs, interior designs... But yeah, Probert would be a major boon to the art department of any new Trek. Hell, any new sci-fi series. Put him and Sternbach in a room and give them free reign to visually fix Discovery and they could probably do it.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:54
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Woah, woah, woah. Andrew Probert did both the refit Enterprise in 1979 and the Enterprise-D, and the Romulan Warbird and Ferengi Marauder, as well as other ships. Oh yeah, I always forget about Probert. I think the fact his name is on my beloved TNG Technical Manual is why I think he is the guy who was behind all of the ships. I think Sternbach is probably a really good details guy, but not a very good overall design guy. Probert did all of the good general designs for the ships we all love, and Sternbach maybe fleshed them out. Same thing happened with Eaves took over in a Probert-type role and ships started looking lovely around First Contact. Some of that blame may be on CGI though, it was maybe easier to make ships look the way they did with the CGI at the time? I don't know. All I know is that Akira/Enterprise-E was the first in a long line of successively crappier looking ships compared to the originals. And I point the blame more at Akira for trying so hard to look "KEWL" than E did. Plus Ent-E actually had physical models made of it for filming. Also whoever took Akira and applied it to the Enterprise show was probably the one that made me hate Akira the most.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:54
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The Cardassian designs are efficient in that they house the warp coils main deflector and primary weapons in the same tubby prow area. I get the sense that Cardassian doctrine involves churning out a lot of ships with heavy primary armaments but not a lot of resources lavished on secondary systems or defenses or comfort. The sudden appearance of fighters on the Starfleet side in the Dominion War kinda makes sense if you remember that Cardassian and Jem'Hadar ships both have limited secondary batteries. Fighters are real attractive because either they operate unopposed or they soak up a lot of heavy weapons fire. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 22:00
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Can we all agree that the Defiant is best because it fires projectile ordinance downfield like a Pyro GX from Descent on crack, instead of warm-up-laser-beam like everything else in Trek?
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Aug 9, 2017 22:14
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I always hated the Cardie and Jem Hadar ship designs, but they certainly stand out.
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Aug 9, 2017 22:15
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i never saw this episode of voyager before and i can't get over rubber-head alien Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson finishing off Seven of Nine with a Rock Bottom
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Aug 9, 2017 22:25
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Voyager didn't find its footing until season 5 and jumped the shark in Season 1 Episode 2 so anything watchable is golden.
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Aug 9, 2017 22:29
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Law Cheetah posted:i never saw this episode of voyager before and i can't get over rubber-head alien Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson finishing off Seven of Nine with a Rock Bottom Context: UPN in 2000 had two moderately successful programs: Voyager and WWF Smackdown. It was really only a matter of time before somebody in a suit and a corner office went, "hmmmm."
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Aug 9, 2017 22:45
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MisterBibs posted:Can we all agree that the Defiant is best because it fires projectile ordinance downfield like a Pyro GX from Descent on crack, instead of warm-up-laser-beam like everything else in Trek? I played Descent for an hour on either side of DS9 nights for the back half of season three. Tuesday was space night and woe betide any who would stand in my way from shooting robots or watching The Sisko.
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Aug 9, 2017 22:48
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MisterBibs posted:Can we all agree that the Defiant is best because it fires projectile ordinance downfield like a Pyro GX from Descent on crack, instead of warm-up-laser-beam like everything else in Trek? I always liked the White Star's beam/projectile mix better. Actually it's kind of funny how Defiant's movement on screen comes across more like an oversized starfighter than the White Star does, despite the White Star having a more starfighter-ish look in my opinion.
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Aug 9, 2017 22:48
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The Rock is amusing and that's definitely an above average episode so I really have no complaint
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Aug 9, 2017 22:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Woah, woah, woah. Andrew Probert did both the refit Enterprise in 1979 and the Enterprise-D, and the Romulan Warbird and Ferengi Marauder, as well as other ships. No one Trek designer was perfect. I've never been a fan of the Galaxy-class, but the D'Deridex and the Constitution refit are both unimpeachable. Sternbach's prop work on TNG was excellent, but the Prometheus- and Nova-classes are hideous as gently caress (Sternbach does earn points for telling John Logan how loving stupid his plan for the Scimitar's bridge was, though). Drexler always did fine work on makeup and props, but the way he's been salty over people hating his NX-refit design is a real turnoff, because it's a perfectly ugly design. gently caress John Eaves forever, though. That is Truth.
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Aug 9, 2017 23:11
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The Bloop posted:The Rock is amusing and that's definitely an above average episode so I really have no complaint The Rock somehow elevates everything he's in through sheer charisma. Like, to where I might actually watch this terrible Jumanji 2 movie when it comes on Netflix in six months, because it has The Rock in it.
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Aug 9, 2017 23:18
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CobiWann posted:Thank you! I made the mistake of mentioning how I wouldn't mind running a one-shot of the new Star Trek RPG once it comes out and our 7th Sea session ended up turning into an hour long discussion about what era we'd play in, what class of ship we'd be on, and who would be what section of crewmen, right down to someone swearing she wouldn't be the person who just repeats everything the computer says. General assumption in that game is that the group is the senior staff of a starship, although there's a neat mechanic where you can super-quickly kitbash a redshirt and have a player run them if it wouldn't make sense for their character to be on the away team or whatever. I actually love the character creation system in Star Trek Adventures, because it leads you organically through thinking about who your character is and how they got to be that way.
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Aug 9, 2017 23:26
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Gaz-L posted:General assumption in that game is that the group is the senior staff of a starship, although there's a neat mechanic where you can super-quickly kitbash a redshirt and have a player run them if it wouldn't make sense for their character to be on the away team or whatever. I actually love the character creation system in Star Trek Adventures, because it leads you organically through thinking about who your character is and how they got to be that way. Is the ship combat any good? I know it's not really what Star Trek is all about but I grew up watching Undiscovered Country and Wrath of Khan far too many times and well, lets just say my ideal Trek game is FASA on the streets and FATE between the sheets.
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Aug 9, 2017 23:30
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shadok posted:The Rock somehow elevates everything he's in through sheer charisma. Like, to where I might actually watch this terrible Jumanji 2 movie when it comes on Netflix in six months, because it has The Rock in it. I'm not generally one for stupid comedies but that movie looks pretty watchable, yes.
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Aug 9, 2017 23:30
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Whenever I go back to DS9 I'm amazed about how fast it comes out of the gate. The back half of season 2 is all above average to great, with Armageddon Game, Whispers, Blood Oath, Paradise, The Wire, The Maquis, Crossover, The Collaborator, Tribunal, and The Jem'Hadar all mashed into a 12 week run. Six of those episodes kick off series-long arcs. Cardassians and Necessary Evil show up in the season just for good measure. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:08
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Timby posted:No one Trek designer was perfect. I've never been a fan of the Galaxy-class, but the D'Deridex and the Constitution refit are both unimpeachable. The Galaxy suffers a lot because half of the shots were with the 4-foot model, which murdered the sleek curves it was meant to be all about, and the rest of the time the six-foot's detailing was too fine for SDTV. It only really got a chance to properly show it off with the HD transfer. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of how later Sternbach designs - even Defiant and Voyager - became a bit too... functional. Or janky and greebled. It fits Defiant better though, I suppose, given what it is, but it feels more primitive. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:17
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Arglebargle III posted:Did they leave anything lmao I always love the little Picard/Riker back and forth where they both know this is absolute bullshit.  We have completed our first sweep of the neutral zone.  Oh, fascinating.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:20
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remusclaw posted:Is the ship combat any good? I know it's not really what Star Trek is all about but I grew up watching Undiscovered Country and Wrath of Khan far too many times and well, lets just say my ideal Trek game is FASA on the streets and FATE between the sheets. Ship combat works near identically to on-foot, with some specific actions that you can take. (I've actually not run the system myself, just watch a few streamed sessions and read through the core rulebook) You can either do called shots or roll on a table to determine what systems get hit when the ship takes damage, and it's kind of a three strikes and you're out rule (systems go from minor damage, to major, to totally hosed). System as a whole is somewhat FATE inspired, but with a dash of a Shadowrun/WoD dice pool/hit mechanic. There's 'values' which are like the character concept stuff from FATE, and a momentum pool that works like FATE points to let players reroll, add conditions to the scene and so on. And the GM has a negative pool to do the same for NPCs.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:44
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Gaz-L posted:Ship combat works near identically to on-foot, with some specific actions that you can take. (I've actually not run the system myself, just watch a few streamed sessions and read through the core rulebook) You can either do called shots or roll on a table to determine what systems get hit when the ship takes damage, and it's kind of a three strikes and you're out rule (systems go from minor damage, to major, to totally hosed). Thanks. I will definitely look into it. None of the official Trek RPG's has ever really been what I wanted, and this sounds like a nice change from the until now pretty conventional rpg systems that they have run on.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:46
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Edit: Sorry, wrong thread I don't have anything to say other than that I like reading Jeb's postings galenanorth fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:47
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MikeJF posted:The Galaxy suffers a lot because half of the shots were with the 4-foot model, which murdered the sleek curves it was meant to be all about, and the rest of the time the six-foot's detailing was too fine for SDTV. It only really got a chance to properly show it off with the HD transfer. I'm also a weirdo who prefers the TOS Connie to the refit. There's something classic about all those sleek geometric shapes and that bright red-and-white scheme.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:50
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CobiWann posted:Thank you! I made the mistake of mentioning how I wouldn't mind running a one-shot of the new Star Trek RPG once it comes out and our 7th Sea session ended up turning into an hour long discussion about what era we'd play in, what class of ship we'd be on, and who would be what section of crewmen, right down to someone swearing she wouldn't be the person who just repeats everything the computer says. jeeves posted:Akira pre-dates these, however both are terrible designs but Akira barely looks like any other ship in Starfleet due to the weird hull design. I think the reason all the ship classes introduced in First Contact (the Akira, the Norway, the Saber, and the Steamrunner) all look so wildly different from any previous Federation designs was because the movie was introducing a new Enterprise with a completely different design, so there was probably a mandate from on high that every Federation ship had to be physically distinct from the Enterprise, even down to having a completely different silhouette, to avoid audience confusion. IIRC there are no Excelsior, Galaxy, or Intrepid class ships in any of the Sector 001 battle scenes, and the only ships from TNG/DS9 that show up are the Defiant and some Miranda and Nebula class ones.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:57
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Lord Hydronium posted:I picked up the Eaglemoss of the D recently, and it's actually a rather nice ship in full 3D. Hey, anyone knew if there is any difference between their Enterprise-Refit and the A?
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Aug 10, 2017 01:51
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Watching Family. Wait didn't Worf's dad die?
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Aug 10, 2017 02:18
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"As humans, my parents wouldn't understand" oh
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Aug 10, 2017 02:19
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Watching Family. Wait didn't Worf's dad die? His Klingon dad. His bio dad. Oh, are you in for a treat.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:19
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Watching Family. Wait didn't Worf's dad die? His Klingon dad, yeah. The couple in Family are his adopted parents. His adopted dad found him in the rubble of the colony, IIRC.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:20
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Picard...
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Aug 10, 2017 02:21
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