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kingcom posted:Wait, no loving way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkCuBdPpj18&t=1300s
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Aug 10, 2017 02:11
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doingitwrong posted:All evidence we have about CIG is that they staffed up pretty much as quickly as possible, before the game was even close to a vertical slice. We are in something they are calling "Alpha 3.0" right now, which is a heck of weird name for a set of prototypes that are still missing dozens of core mechanics and technologies. Ordinarily, Alpha is a feature-complete game that is still missing huge chunks of assets. Here, we're being told that all these assets are waiting in the wings for features to get up and running. Quoting because all of this is absolutely true. I'd also like to add that it's probably more accurate to say that Alpha 2.6 (and probably 3.0) is not so much an Alpha version of Star Citizen as it is a Beta version of a completely different, tiny game that may or may not bear any resemblance to an actual Star Citizen Alpha/Beta. Why is it a Beta version? Because the amount of work put into the assets and features that were included was way more than anyone would actually bother doing for an Alpha. Can't call it Gold or even a Release Candidate though, because it's still far too buggy.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:19
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Sabreseven posted:Literally every single thing they do regards to programming and asset creation is sold by them as "New tech" or "Groundbreaking Tech" and so far absolutely everything is found to have either been designed by someone else years ago and/or already widely used to no fanfare. Even better, you can pull out the stack overflow tutorials they've been using recently. 22 minutes in, you'll hear him talking about object inheritence. The time code doesn't appear to work on the link, though. doingitwrong posted:[Doing it Right] Quality post.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:19
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Holy loving poo poo. I cannot fathom how completely out of their depth they could be to not understand how incredibly valuable object oriented programming is and not only that but to not start using it from the get go. Like jesus all their insane bugs make sense if they were literally implementing the same code features over and over again with tiny variations for every single loving thing. How the gently caress is this possible? I guess this reinforces that the team is entirely composed of fresh out of university/college students who are just copy pasting the stuff that was already implemented. If the studio had a single senior programmer or even just a couple of junior programmers who had worked at a proper software development studio then they would have pointed out what was wrong after a couple of days on the job. How do you gently caress up your programming so badly to not even implement OOP? I don't know how CryEngine makes use of interference or anything in their base architecture so whatever (they should have loving figured it out by now though jfc especially since they talking about needing to copy paste functionality for something like weapons) but OOP isn't even a concept you need to learn on the job, you shouldn't be a programmer period without having knowledge of what it is and why its a standard. I was genuinely upset seeing them make this big deal of breaking their code up into 'components'. ITS NOT A COMPONENT! ITS A loving CLASS YOU HACK FRAUDS! kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 02:22
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Star Citizen: You know what? I'm glad of it.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:24
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kingcom posted:I was genuinely upset seeing them make this big deal of breaking their code up into 'components'. ITS NOT A COMPONENT! ITS A loving CLASS YOU HACK FRAUDS!  You can come at it from literally multiple angles and there's a moment where you think that it's all an elegant fake out, then someone says they were 'copy pasta'ing functionality between ships. I mean, apart from wanting to throttle any professional that uses 'copy pasta'... And you know, if they at least had the honesty to say polymorphism didn't work for the ships, so we're trying something new, they'd just have to say that, but it's always cutting edge, and never been done before...bullshit. I'm waiting for the breathless description of design patterns next. Hav fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 02:36
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doingitwrong posted:
Good news for you, friend! MoMA doesn't need to get a refund because he has $0 invested in Star Citizen. 
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Aug 10, 2017 02:50
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Hav posted:
Yeah I think thats the thing that really gets me, its amusing when its just naive learning of 'hey we implemented this poorly and we started just setting up new classes for each ship and it became very clunky to track. So our solution was to set up a much better parent class for ships, we identified what the common methods that we needed to change a lot, and broke down some solid inheritance frameworks . All this resulting in a lot less maintenance for our code base'. Thats clever and sounds like a programmer who had to deal with someone being lazy early on and cleaning things up as the scope developed. But when they pull poo poo like that as a big new thing they figured out its just so utterly infuriating and feels like they're directly making GBS threads on everyone who has ever made major contributions to software development and computer science. There are thousands of really dedicated, talented and hard work striving to build software in the hopes that someone out there will try it and like it and these idiots at CIG get millions upon millions for doing nothing and making brilliant discoveries on how coding should work that I got taught in high school. The line 'now we can just move these components around to insert them as needed' was a genuinely shocking moment for me. Cause if you didn't have classes you could call and use as needed...how were you doing anything at all?
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Aug 10, 2017 02:59
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Hopper posted:I like your new avatar, the fez suits you. Yeah, I kinda like it too. That's why I didn't bother changing it. Colostomy Bag posted:You need to tweet your avatar. Good idea! I will do that in the morning.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:00
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I might actually watch ATV tomorrow as its going to be a chronicle of incompetance. Road to citcon style.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:00
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The Titanic posted:So are any backers yet noticing the slow shift from "space game with space ships" they probably originally backed for to "generic FPS game"? As if you have to ask. They've been mostly ignoring it because the truth is scarier.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:02
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Scruffpuff posted:Because Star Citizen is a 100% invalid, nonexistent IP with not only no original ideas, but in fact no ideas at all. It has no legitimate maps, lore, ships, planets, space stations, moons, asteroids, NPCs, storyline, or - interestingly enough - stars. There's the generic bullshit "lore" that Chris shat out, but it's 100% worthless because it came from Chris Roberts. 
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Aug 10, 2017 03:03
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HKS posted:If you've seen any of the videos with Tony z and cr you can tell it's not just cr making up poo poo. They both do and they feed off each other. The programming team is also a scam from the head down. Yeah, since they go way back to the Origin days, that makes sense. They're all loving complicit.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:04
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Sabreseven posted:You're forgetting "Render to texture" Another of CIG's recent "inventions". Now when he was inventing render to technology for his holograms, it's very critical to understand that this is video games. If you want a hologram, you clone your model and give it a snazzy "I'm a hologram!" Shader so it looks super cool. Easy to use anywhere? Heck yes! Just add your "hologram-guy.character" to your scene. Development time? You've already got the model, just build the shader and textures for it. Maybe what, 2 weeks to make it look like something straight out of a Hollywood movie? Difficulty in implementation? Equally as difficult as animating any other characters in your game. Shouldn't be hard hopefully if you've got a handle on animation. Hardware overhead? As much as a character plus that shader, shouldn't be enough to kill a scene where you want a hologram to be. Spawn holo guy in the players room, then when done despawn it. That's the logical way, because it's a video game, where "cheating" doesn't exist, only how you creatively do a thing. Now compare this to CIGs version: Easy to use anywhere? Need to set up an extra camera and extra entire area around the character in the scene. Basically it can't be a spur of the moment thing since the scene will need to be built around it. Development time? Probably between 8-20 months. Difficulty in implementation? Each scene using a hologram will need the hologram character spawned in some special area other players can't find it, including an additional camera and linking. Every player using it will somehow need to not overlap wherever the hologram guy is at in the world. Will be complex to figure out in a multiplayer setting; and I have a feeling CIG hasn't gotten far enough to figure out how this is actually going to work. Hardware overhead? Entire character and additional scene needs to be rendered on screen, then rendered again to a texture. A single scene will need at least 3 times the amount of work per frame to render, more depending on how shaders or scene filters are implemented. Overall CIG spent tons of effort to over complicate something that will not add anything that cloning a character in a location would have done. I guess the only real added benefit is instead of just getting "a character" hologram you can also see the surroundings of that character too since it's a scene with another camera. But that may make the hologram not stand out and look busy, so it they may end up turning off the background scene, effectively wiping out the only real "benefit". Also it will probably help to kill your frame rate, which for Star Citizen is kind of an expected feature at this point for everything they do. But maybe I'm totally wrong. 
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Aug 10, 2017 03:11
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Hav posted:
This project would be so much better off if you could get the impression that someone involved in its development was trying to be honest with the fanbase instead of constantly using marketing talk, stupid terms (or the wrong terms), when at the same time it becomes painfully obvious that not only they have huge problems to solve (that Chris created and continues to do so) but that most of them and definitely the higher ups lack the skills to even know how to approach them the right way. They certainly seem to rediscover, while maybe trying to reinvent them, things that are or should be a common knowledge base for developers by now. Anyway, about an actually interesting game that came out on time from a small team studio, Hellblade seems to have a web site, with an awesome videos page, where one can find 29 development diary videos. A short series that (albeit I haven't watched to its full yet) seems to be to the point about the development days and challenges and their solutions and tech that they used to overcome them. About a game that was actually made with this tech and is now released and playable. Which basically yells "suck a bag of 29 dicks" to CIG's seasons of pointless ATV and whatever the other gently caress videos they
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Aug 10, 2017 03:13
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kingcom posted:Yeah I think thats the thing that really gets me, its amusing when its just naive learning of 'hey we implemented this poorly and we started just setting up new classes for each ship and it became very clunky to track. So our solution was to set up a much better parent class for ships, we identified what the common methods that we needed to change a lot, and broke down some solid inheritance frameworks . All this resulting in a lot less maintenance for our code base'. Thats clever and sounds like a programmer who had to deal with someone being lazy early on and cleaning things up as the scope developed. I think that y'all are blowing this out of proportion. There's no way that they're not using OOP. It's how CryEngine is architected, and every piece of code they've shown on AtV and Bugsmashers has been in some member function or another. If anything they've relied too heavily on standard OOP principles of polymorphism and inheritance, and probably they created some hellishly complex and inflexible structure that made even small additions impossible... Leading to even worse decisions like duplicating the code across various classes. I agree that it's very off-putting how they always present their work as groundbreaking. Especially given they know the audience is laypeople who would have no reason to suspect they're exaggerating the novelty of their work.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:15
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xXAdmiralBekHarXx posted:I might actually watch ATV tomorrow as its going to be a chronicle of incompetance. Road to citcon style. If it doesn't start with everyone trying to find their seats in CIG's cafeteria I'm going to be disappointed. So I guess I'll get to feel what it's like to back and follow Star Citizen.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:16
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CIG should make each ship come with a deck of collectible star citizen cards (think MtG) so backers have a game to play while they hang around in videogame purgatory.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:18
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The Titanic posted:But maybe I'm totally wrong. Reckon you're pretty close to the truth tbh Now we must wait for the never done before groundbreaking tech that punches above it's weight called the "CIG Refactored FPS minimizer", this tech negates the need for 60+ fps and runs flawlessly and smoothly to allow our high end consumer pc's to deliver up to 5-15 fps in a Lumberyard Starengine environment where 60+ is the norm, think of all those extra frames that are now not needed and therefore saved as this revolutionary tech gives you the fidelity of a 1970's era rotary slide projector while using absolutely every resource that your pc can muster before it lets the smoke out. (Also it'll only cost 18k which is a tiny fraction of 20k) 
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Aug 10, 2017 03:27
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D_Smart posted:As if you have to ask. They've been mostly ignoring it because the truth is scarier. I know! I always have this look going on as I read their stuff. I just don't get it. In a way I'm kind of envious they found something so powerful to believe in as something so petty as a video game. It's like the NMS guys who made something look like it's not, and released it, and got destroyed by everybody. CIG does the exact same thing except with even bigger promises that don't exist everywhere, with macrotransactions on top of a barely functional demo, and people flock to defend them. It's bizzarro world and some days I wish I could join them because it's got to be fun on the inside. Like doing really good drugs and your hand is the most loving awesome thing in the world.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:28
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[–]Lethality_new user/low karma 9 points 6 hours ago Been to the studio in LA twice. They show nothing, despite what others have you believe. How come we haven't seen a gameplay session from 3.0? Surely something has to not crash, if we're this close to estimate a release within weeks? QA must be doing something, right? Show that. Communication is nonexistent and it's deteriorating trust. lethality getting salty.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:32
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D_Smart posted:Yeah, since they go way back to the Origin days, that makes sense. They're all loving complicit. All the big name Origin guys I looked up to in the early 90's who helped me want to be a really cool programmer seem to have all ended up as poo poo canisters today.  That is a bit sad. From CR scamming people to the guy who made loving Ultima, a game about being a virtuous hero, also scamming people and selling his own blood for money, is just real depressing for the little girl in me who genuinely wanted to be good enough to work at Origin some day. I kind of wish CR just stayed retired and Richard Garriott threw in his hat after Tabula Rasa. The memories of them being great would have been so much better than seeing what they have become today.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:33
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Scruffpuff posted:In Chris Roberts' mind, if he creates enough art assets with enough fidelity, his game will take on the real-life traits and all the necessary mechanics will simply exist in his game. He does not believe you need to create a game, or design a game, or code a game - the game will arise from the fidelity of its assets! He basically is building Skynets retarded cousin. An AI monstrosity that is bound to awaken, become self aware and solve all of Chris' problems with his magnum opus, if he keeps throwing fidelicious assets into the steaming pile that is the current state of the project. He probably also just needs for the state of the art tech and computer power to catch up with his dreams.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:35
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The Titanic posted:So are any backers yet noticing the slow shift from "space game with space ships" they probably originally backed for to "generic FPS game"? I have asked them this and the response is, and this is pretty much the response I got from dozens of them: "I backed Chris Roberts' vision. As long as he gets to make it a reality I will be happy. I have complete trust in him"
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Aug 10, 2017 03:39
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trucutru posted:I have asked them this and the response is, and this is pretty much the response I got from dozens of them: That's pretty nice. Though what is his vision these days? It seems to change based on the last movie he saw. I wish there was still a 10ftC so somebody could ask him what his vision is.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:41
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peter gabriel posted:Operation tomorrow, pain killers kicking in, desire to edit posts fading Good luck! Remember to explain to the doc that you're always in a state of almost-rabies and that no, that's not a side-effect of the operation.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:43
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The Titanic posted:That's pretty nice. Though what is his vision these days? It seems to change based on the last movie he saw. "A living, breathing universe full of possibilities for all" Mr. Carlisle posted:The funniest part of all of this is that the only real losers when this project finally shits the bed are the ones that actually believed in it all the way through. Their money goes into the void. Chris, Ortwin and Sandi leave the project rich enough that they'll never have to work again and most of the devs will move onto the next studio hiring for the next big MMO or whatever. Nah, Ortwin and Sandi leave rich enough. Chris gets a divorce and zero money. In the end I do believe he's special enough to believe his own lies.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:44
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WTF man, I just watched that ATV reel. This video should be what they should've Kickstarted with. 5 years in and they're still messing around with their core interaction systems lol. If this was CIG 4 years ago, building and talking about all this stuff, they would be in a much better position today. Instead what happened was CR wanted more money, to build bigger dreams he decided that lying and putting on a good show was far more important than investing in their core tech. Which is basically answering questions like how to get rid of underwater below 0,0,0 in cryengine, or how to give mass to ships and not make them just noclip or how to make gravity work... etc. doingitwrong posted:
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Aug 10, 2017 03:46
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The Titanic posted:I know! I always have this look going on as I read their stuff. I just don't get it. They are defending CIG because the game is not out yet. Also, sunk cost fallacy. When Star Citizen comes out, they've shown us. Checkmate goonies.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:48
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The Titanic posted:All the big name Origin guys I looked up to in the early 90's who helped me want to be a really cool programmer seem to have all ended up as poo poo canisters today. It's sad, but ultimately it's their own fault. This wasn't an issue of them aging out of the industry and sitting in a darkened room like Elizabeth Taylor watching old reels from back when they were young. They got their start, and in Chris' case got lucky as well, in a time when it took just a small handful of people (or on occasion just one) to make a complete game and ship that on floppy. Now you have studios with thousands of people and a credits sequence longer than most feature films. But the choice to go into stasis and pretend the industry didn't move on was Chris' alone. Richard Garriott made tons of great games, and made the first wildly successful MMO, paving the way for games like Everquest and WoW. He made fantastic PC RPGs, set the stage for one of the earliest FPS-a-likes with Underworld, and with Tabula Rasa made an early attempt at a dynamic shooter MMO. He kept up for the most part with the industry, and didn't pretend to invent new tech. His crime was refusing to let go of the "solo rock star developer" ego, but at least that ego was earned to some degree. Peter Molyneux has less accomplishment under his belt than Richard Garriott, and more dreams, but you still have to give the guy major credit for just one thing: he knows how to cut poo poo out of his games and actually ship the fuckers. His biggest enemy is his own mouth. If all his big ideas were put down on paper instead of the pages of PC Gamer, nobody would know what got cut from the final game, wouldn't sperg all over the theorycrafting resulting from his promises, and he wouldn't have the reputation he enjoys today. Chris Roberts made the laughable Wing Commander game, and from accounts of the day, his biggest contribution to the game was making a certain pixel blue instead of green. When you consider how bad the game was, and how incredibly bad the storyline, its success due to novelty factor comes into sharper focus. They never did get the crashing bug out when you quit the game, so they hacked the crash error message to say "Thank you for playing Wing Commander!" Chris Forrest Gumped his way into his first success, then bumblefucked all over the industry landscape for years before faceplanting into a pile of his own poo poo. Then he comes out of carbonite, insults the entire industry, says "Maybe Rockstar can match us", then proceeds to reinvent every technology of the last 15 years, but wrong. If Chris got cryogenically frozen and reawakened on the USS Enterprise, he'd insult the captain, say he could invent better teleporters, piss himself while trying to work the controls, then accidentally launch himself out of an airlock while complaining about the color of the warning lights. Don't feel too bad about the relative fall of some of your early heroes. They had successes and failures like anyone else, and maybe aren't letting go as gracefully as they might. CR is his own breed. It takes quite a man to make John Romero look good, but Chris does it quite handily.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:51
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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/pitchfork-to-tiber I literally cant believe this thread exists in mid 2017 CR is elon musk https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/chris-roberts-is-the-elon-musk-of-pc-gaming
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Aug 10, 2017 03:52
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also the referral contest ended yesterday havent heard a goddamn thing lol
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Aug 10, 2017 03:57
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xXAdmiralBekHarXx posted:https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/pitchfork-to-tiber You're going to think I'm kidding, but I can explain this. Members of the lower intellectual class engage in tons of rituals based on "magical thinking" - one of those rituals is creating reality by stating it. Say something enough times, and get enough other people to repeat it, and it becomes reality. The U.S. has gotten a close look at this practice this year. So this is simply that activity. "Chris is the Elon Musk of PC game development." Say it, repeat it, and it becomes true, and Star Citizen comes out! You can see how people with this intellectual capacity could be convinced to back the game.
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Aug 10, 2017 04:01
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who's excited for
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Aug 10, 2017 04:14
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ManofManyAliases posted:Hey Pal: I think I can continue to be as smug as I want in knowing that CIG is hard at work making the foundational systems that will carry the project for the next decade. 5 Years in (6, by some fuzzy math by resident non-accredited PhDs) is not a call for concern. I think a lot of the hurt and pain experienced by some of you stems from the fact that you have no insight into a private company's operations or financials and just bark at clouds because half of you don't understand the gaming business. CIG projected deadlines. CIG missed deadlines because of reasons (contractors leaving, internal structuring, whatever). CIG learned form mistakes and have toned-down deadline speak. Comparatively, the project is more open than the likes of EA or Activision, or any other gaming studio when it comes to systems, gameplay, art, etc. Building the foundations for the next decade huh? So they're finally ditching Lumberyard then?
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Aug 10, 2017 04:17
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nawledgelambo posted:who's excited for I positively tingle with anticipation
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Aug 10, 2017 04:26
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Scruffpuff posted:Then he comes out of carbonite, insults the entire industry, says "Maybe Rockstar can match us", then proceeds to reinvent every technology of the last 15 years, but wrong. If Chris got cryogenically frozen and reawakened on the USS Enterprise, he'd insult the captain, say he could invent better teleporters, piss himself while trying to work the controls, then accidentally launch himself out of an airlock while complaining about the color of the warning lights Legit almost pissed myself laughing at this because it's actually incredibly easy to imagine this exact scenario playing out.
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Aug 10, 2017 04:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUOcdJTgnvw innocent people streaming star citizen and lolling at it
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Aug 10, 2017 04:38
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Sabreseven posted:Legit almost pissed myself laughing at this because it's actually incredibly easy to imagine this exact scenario playing out. gently caress we can only hope, for the future of mankind And have him take Ben with
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Aug 10, 2017 04:43
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xXAdmiralBekHarXx posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUOcdJTgnvw Janky as gently caress. Love the floors and ceilings being unloaded from graphics ram because the game thinks no one needs to see it then randomly reloaded when the commando walks on it, that's gotta be good for performance right?
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Aug 10, 2017 04:45
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