Reik posted:

I feel like this would be viewing the actions of a dog ethically. Yes dogs behave similar to humans in some ways, but you can't treat them as ethical actors. You have to keep them on a leash when you take em outside.

WampaLord posted:

And that's what we were trying to discuss and you went all "But my jooooooooooooooooooob!"

We want to regulate insurance out of existence for the average person. Insurance should be a premium thing, like Medicare Advantage, not a baseline requirement to access the health care system.

Reik posted:

I said my job was no more or less ethical, which I still believe and is consistent with my statements. Not my fault the thread lost its loving mind.

NewForumSoftware posted:

Dogs are not socially constructed by humans though. We built them and operate them, ultimately humans are responsible for the results.

Reik posted:

I think owners should be held responsible for their animals. If you're a lovely owner and your dog bites and kills someone welcome to jail town.

NewForumSoftware posted:

Is there any job that you could take that even could be less ethical?

NewForumSoftware posted:

Is there any job that you could take that even could be less ethical?

NewForumSoftware posted:

Ok now what if your dog is a large group of people capable of independent thought

Do you bear no responsibility if you didn't make the order?

NewForumSoftware posted:

So you see no ethical difference between say, Xe and Amnesty International? Maybe not the best example, but pick your favorite 5013c

Reik posted:

As long as I'm not breaking the law or violating regulations it's all the same to me.

Reik posted:

I think there will be corporations that are more ethical, but I don't expect corporations to be ethical, if that makes sense.

Willie Tomg posted:

For the first time in my life something really beautiful in politics is beginning to take shape at the grassroots level and the only tool in your box is savaging people with memes. That's tragic, because if you could let go of whatever compels you to be so angry all the time you could be a part of something wonderful.

NewForumSoftware posted:

Why is that your bar to meet? What if the laws are terrible and unjust? Do you think slave catchers were also ethical?

Crowsbeak posted:

this picture shows why the wonderful Completely Useless cowardly Knowitalls are wrong about trying to appeal to the "Truth" is in the Middle" horseshit. look at the Trump voters who are economically left.

NewForumSoftware posted:

It's hilarious that you get calls for decorum the second someone who's viewed as "one of the good ones" comes out and says some dumb poo poo. Call Me Charlie?

NewForumSoftware posted:

So given that, would working for a more ethical organization be in of itself an ethical act?

Majorian posted:

Call Me Charlie was arguing against accepting refugees and in favor of building Trump's wall when I said that. He routinely defends his voting for Trump "as a leftist." Dude's a creep.

Reik posted:

I guess I think laws are the rough representation of the current moral society? As the moral society changes, law changes. No I don't think slave catchers were ethical, but I also think kidnapping and slavery should be illegal. If laws are terrible and unjust then change them, and if corruption is at a point where you can't change the laws then burn the whole thing down.

NewForumSoftware posted:

It's almost as if there are appropriate times to call someone an idiot, like when they deny unskilled workers are hurt by illegal immigration.

NewForumSoftware posted:

It's almost as if there are appropriate times to call someone an idiot, like when they deny unskilled workers are hurt by illegal immigration.

Sneakster posted:

They're hurt by capitalist exploitation. Illegal immigration is more of a humanitarian crisis. If there was a UBI and unskilled labor was an avenue to exploit desperate immigrants without competing with them for survival, its unlikely illegal immigration would be considered as much of a pressing matter.

Sneakster posted:

They're hurt by capitalist exploitation. Illegal immigration is more of a humanitarian crisis. If there was a UBI and unskilled labor was an avenue to exploit desperate immigrants without competing with them for survival, its unlikely illegal immigration would be considered as much of a pressing matter.

Majorian posted:

I admitted I was wrong, and I'm pretty sure I haven't complained about you calling me an idiot. So...maybe stop whining now?

NewForumSoftware posted:

if we could just all get along it would be better.

NewForumSoftware posted:

You don't need to complain because there's an army of "you're not a REAL socialist if...", "reactionary thinkers like Trump and NFS" following behind you to remind us that actually, great things are happening and if we could just all get along it would be better.

WampaLord posted:

I mean...yeah?

Majorian posted:

Seriously, stop whining.

Reik posted:

I don't expect corporations to make good moral decisions. If I don't want corporations behaving in a certain way I want to have a law on the books preventing them from behaving that way. If we didn't have a law that made murder illegal I would still expect a fair amount of humans to not murder people because it's a bad thing to do however I would not expect a corporation to not murder someone if it meant profit.

Calibanibal posted:

i dont give a flying fck what u think of me, i swear 2 g*d stop telling me to shut up or i will lose it

Majorian posted:

Bitching about illegal immigrants is just giving a pass to those who are really benefiting from the system anyway.

NewForumSoftware posted:

I agree 100%, the problem at the end of the day is that we've tied work and livelihood together and depend on "the market" to deliver us jobs.


You don't need to complain because there's an army of "you're not a REAL socialist if...", "reactionary thinkers like Trump and NFS" following behind you to remind us that actually, great things are happening and if we could just all get along it would be better.

Sneakster posted:

Racism is not mutually exclusive with socialism, Marx himself was extremely racist against mestizos.

Crowsbeak posted:

this picture shows why the wonderful Completely Useless cowardly Knowitalls are wrong about trying to appeal to the "Truth" is in the Middle" horseshit. look at the Trump voters who are economically left.

VitalSigns posted:

Sneakster posted:

Also, Wampa, you're getting a little shakey in the Trump thread

Majorian posted:

Call Me Charlie was arguing against accepting refugees and in favor of building Trump's wall when I said that. He routinely defends his voting for Trump "as a leftist." Dude's a creep.

Call Me Charlie posted:

I've never argued in favor of building Trump's wall, you stupid rear end in a top hat.

That's the worst thing about posting here. People like you who make up false positions so they can put other people in boxes instead of actually reading what they post and responding accordingly.

Call Me Charlie posted:

Allowing ten thousand people in a year, so you can get the warm & fuzzies while watching the local news, doesn't counteracts the fact that we're directly responsible for the Syrian civil war going on as long as it has. Sorry. That's the reality of the situation. Truly helping them would be stopping the perpetual war that caused them to flee their area.

And here's an even crazier idea....we're under no obligation to help people that come here illegally. Nor do we have to open up our border as atonement for anything we've done.

Majorian posted:

Oh RIGHT, you were arguing against allowing in Syrian refugees:


My bad.

VitalSigns posted:

What about when those corporations committing murder for profit inevitably use those profits to bribe lobby legislators into keeping their murders legal and legalizing more.

Oh but I guess as long as bribery is legal I guess that's not an ethical problem either right

NewForumSoftware posted:

But they were legal, why would they not be ethical? Given that most people in this thread think that charging people with pre-existing conditions more to healthcare should be illegal. Given that, is it not fair for them to see health insurers as unethical?

Call Me Charlie posted:

Thanks for summing up why you're the worst poster in here.

*yeah, i just straight up made something up about you but YOU'RE still in the wrong *

WampaLord posted:

I don't know what you mean by this. I post how I post, if people want to write me off as an idiot, that's on them. I know who I am.

Sneakster posted:

Kinda come off like being oppositional for the sake of it rather than having a point to make. It's good for discussion when the thread breaks down into actually arguing under policy under Trump, but the recent stuff seemed to just be kind of disruptive.

Majorian posted:

I love that you think my misremembering your terrible position is a greater sin than your genuinely awful position. (which turned out to be even worse than I remembered)

Reik posted:

I think there's a difference between white knight-ing insurance companies and saying things that are objectively true. You do you, though.

WampaLord posted:

I wasn't the one telling people that they're bad posters and should shut up.