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Marketing New Brain posted:That doesn't follow, the huge success of Hearthstone means they occupy a small percentage of the market for digital card games, so they have a ton of room to grow even if digital card games themselves are relatively stagnant, which I doubt. The same growth just simply isn't possible with their paper product, due to the myriad of logistical issues that come with playing a game with paper cards. There's room to grow, but that's no guarantee they will, and doing so requires basically rebuilding the product from scratch. It's a big investment up front for an uncertain payoff in a market that right now is about to get flooded with newer, better-made competitors. Magic's longevity is a double-edged sword in this regard as well: Yeah it gives you brand identity, but it also marks you as a known commodity that people may see as outdated or uninteresting, *especially* if you're not releasing digital-only products and your product is weighed down by the paper game. I think you're making the mistake of thinking that WotC would just jump in now and start trying to grow with a better product, but the reality is they'd start working on their competitive product and jump in in two years, by which time I think the market will have become stagnant and overcrowded.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:07
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I think the number one thing they can do is say at x date no set redemptions. Then do huge price changes and push the word that it now is way cheaper going forward.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:13
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Marketing New Brain posted:They also aren't investing jumping in after Hearthstone, they existed in the marketplace about a decade ahead of them, it would be an investment in an already successful, revenue generating product. Now their choice to create a Magic MMO, on the other hand . . . Alaan posted:I think the number one thing they can do is say at x date no set redemptions. Then do huge price changes and push the word that it now is way cheaper going forward.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:26
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:This is exactly what they're doing. That's what the new Arena app exactly is. I mean, I'm not factoring in a product that so far all we know is an announcement about a future announcement.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:43
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:This is exactly what they're doing. That's what the new Arena app exactly is. The MMO is just licensing the IP to some rando, which has worked pretty well for Games Workshop. They aren't beholden to anything and the businesses out there who livelihood is the loving mtgo secondary market are idiots.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:21
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They should have reprinted Barl's Cage and Inferno in the wizards deck.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:22
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So after the first day of GP Birmingham, I now have a complete legacy deck. Looking forward to jamming more chaos drafts tomorrow, but might get a Legacy event in as practice for competitive legacy at birmingham in May.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:51
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mehall posted:So after the first day of GP Birmingham, I now have a complete legacy deck. I paid £15 to lose to death's shadow then bought some duals for my duel commander deck
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Aug 11, 2017 21:02
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Barry Shitpeas posted:I paid £15 to lose to death's shadow then bought some duals for my duel commander deck Im considering cashing my vaevictis asmadi deck into blue duals and a time vault for canadian highlander. Can't remember when i last played EDH, and that deck is an immediate target with anyone i'd want to play with. I'm hardly going to lose money on duals and vault unless the break the reserved list, and i'd never be happier to lose that kinda money than on them breaking the reserve list.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:13
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mehall posted:I'm hardly going to lose money on duals and vault unless the break the reserved list, and i'd never be happier to lose that kinda money than on them breaking the reserve list.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:44
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On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling?
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Aug 11, 2017 21:46
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EmmyOk posted:On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling? Nah, the second blue mana symbol is just part of the reminder text
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Aug 11, 2017 21:49
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EmmyOk posted:On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling? No, it's just clarifying what cycling means.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:49
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EmmyOk posted:On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling? The italic text in brackets, which includes the second symbol, is what is known as reminder text, and spells out the ability in full rather than just the keyword. So this card only costs one blue mana to cycle, but the ability is repeated in full in the reminder text.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:49
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Nope, the bit in parentheses is just letting you know what "Cycling U" means. edit: beaten soundly. Uh, so how about those Commander decks? Any other new cards that weren't previewed (probably not)?
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Aug 11, 2017 21:49
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EmmyOk posted:On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling? Nah the stuff in parentheses is just reminder text, "translating" the rest of it. So "Cycling U" means "pay 1 blue mana and discard this card to draw a card". mehall posted:Im considering cashing my vaevictis asmadi deck into blue duals and a time vault for canadian highlander. I've been having similar thoughts about my Captain Sisay deck, except instead of spending it on Legacy it would be on Modern and I'd be way more likely to lose money over time there (not that I'm not wasting money just by having the cards anyway). C-Euro fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 21:50
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Okay neat! I have a black card with a cycling cost of 4 and thought it might actually be 8 which would be quite expensive! I appreciate everyone's answers and hope I'm not bothering the thread. I know I could google a lot of this but it's a much more pleasant and fun experience asking knowledgeable goons!
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Aug 11, 2017 21:51
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I think the stuff in the parentheses is just reminder text that doesn't affect how the card works. Hopefully 30 people don't post before me and say this exact thing.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:52
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Anything in italics has no rules meaning. Mostly it's reminder text or flavour text but occasionally other things like revolt or landfall.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:01
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EmmyOk posted:Okay neat! I have a black card with a cycling cost of 4 and thought it might actually be 8 which would be quite expensive! I appreciate everyone's answers and hope I'm not bothering the thread. I know I could google a lot of this but it's a much more pleasant and fun experience asking knowledgeable goons! don't worry we are starved for purpose in this thread, which is why you got like 10 replies all saying the same thing
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Aug 11, 2017 22:04
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I have a total loser novice simple question. On cards like Oashra Cultivator: Is part of the ability cost to tap the card itself, right before you sacrifice it? I'm not sure what the purpose of that is other than making sure you have to wait at least a turn to sacrifice, right? I humbly beg your forgiveness for such a question.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:30
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Jejoma posted:I have a total loser novice simple question. On cards like Oashra Cultivator: It also means that anything that causes it to tap prevents the ability from being played. But, yeah, the main reason for the tapping cost is probably to slow it down.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:32
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Flip Yr Wig posted:It also means that anything that causes it to tap prevents the ability from being played. But, yeah, the main reason for the tapping cost is probably to slow it down. Oh I see, yes. Thank you.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:34
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Jejoma posted:I have a total loser novice simple question. On cards like Oashra Cultivator: That's generally correct: it gives your opponent a chance to murder it before your next turn (or otherwise deal with it), and lowers the power level of the card appreciably for that reason. For instance, Magus of the Jar costs 3UU to cast, sac+tap to activate. Its ability is the same as that of Memory Jar, an utterly broken artifact that was banned almost immediately after players realized how disgustingly powerful it was; however, because artifacts can tap on the turn they enter play, delaying the ability by a turn, and attaching it to a vulnerable creature, means that the broken card is now balanced.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:40
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GeneX posted:That's generally correct: it gives your opponent a chance to murder it before your next turn (or otherwise deal with it), and lowers the power level of the card appreciably for that reason. I'm just now digging into poo poo like this, so this is super helpful to know.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:46
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EmmyOk posted:On cards like this is it saying it costs two blue mana to use cycling? Just to prove a point:   Decree of Pain, both without and with reminder text.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:55
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man Decree of Pain's first art is so much better
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Aug 11, 2017 23:59
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ZeroCount posted:man Decree of Pain's first art is so much better
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Aug 12, 2017 00:05
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GeneX posted:That's generally correct: it gives your opponent a chance to murder it before your next turn (or otherwise deal with it), and lowers the power level of the card appreciably for that reason. I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Just to prove a point: Oh neat, thanks!
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Aug 12, 2017 00:06
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Decree of Pain and Decree of Justice are the only two cards to be printed with and without reminder text. That's because very, very few cards have Cycling without the reminder text in the first place. In fact, nothing since the decrees in Scourge has ditched it.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:07
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EmmyOk posted:I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? Memory Jar is good because you get a new hand when you want it (generally during your own turn, when you have all your mana available) and your opponent will only be able to play instants with the new hand he gets, so for the most part you get 7 new cards and get to play a bunch of them while your opponent gets to basically take the top 7 cards from his library and put them in the graveyard (after holding them for a little bit).
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Aug 12, 2017 00:14
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EmmyOk posted:I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? The decks that were breaking it could use all seven new cards that turn, generally.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:16
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There was a Megrim+Memory Jar deck with a iirc 60% win rate on turn 1, which contributed to the first emergency ban in Magic's history.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:19
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EmmyOk posted:I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? Drawing seven more cards is really powerful. If you have the leftover mana to get off a bunch of cards or play an expensive one, great. But even if you can't, it still gives you seven more chances of drawing a response when you need it. Also, a deck with lots of cheap burn would be really nasty with that.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:20
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Abhorrence posted:The decks that were breaking it could use all seven new cards that turn, generally. and did 14 damage to the opponent through forcing them to discard 7 cards
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Aug 12, 2017 00:21
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:There was a Megrim+Memory Jar deck with a iirc 60% win rate on turn 1, which contributed to the first emergency ban in Magic's history. This is the most hosed up deck I have ever seen
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Aug 12, 2017 00:51
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quote:This is the most famous version of the deck. Piloted by Randy Buehler and Erik Lauer before the emergency bannings. I guess this could be a legit reason to not like him if you were playing at the time.
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Aug 12, 2017 01:02
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EmmyOk posted:I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? To understand why it's broken, you need to know the basic idea of the combo deck it was used in, and the decks it's used in now. That first combo deck revolved around 2 cards: Megrim and Memory Jar. Megrim is an enchantment that reads "whenever your opponent discards a card, they lose 2 life." You know Memory Jar. The deck used a combination of tutors – cards that lets you search your deck for other, card and then put them in your hand – and fast mana – cards that give you more mana than you played to cast them, or give the same amount and can be untapped, or lands that give more than 1 mana when tapped – to make a ton of mana, cast memory jar, use it, and then use the new cards to find more memory jars. Once your opponent drew enough cards from jars, you just had to pass, and they died to the megrim triggers. This basic idea – using an obscene amount of mana to draw a bunch of cards, then killing your opponent– was incredibly overpowered, and could win on the first turn with a good draw: in fact, multiple decks existed with similar premises, with different winconditions (like Stroke of Genius using a ton of mana, used to make your opponent draw their whole deck and die to drawing from an empty deck; that deck had Tolarian Academy, a hilariously broken card unto itself). Here's thread favorite SaffronOlive explaining the idea of that deck, if you can deal with his voice. It was part of "Combo Winter", an infamous series of a few months in 1998-1999 (I think) that ruined almost all competitive magic environments and got the R&D team screamed at by their boss. It's currently (I think: the metagame might have changed) used in vintage (see the thread OP for more info on formats) storm decks, which use a combination of fast mana, tutors, and low cost draw spells to cast Tendrils of Agony – drain 2 life from your opponent. Storm. (Copy this card for each card cast before on this turn.) – after ten spells have been cast that turn. In summary: it draws 7 cards for 5 mana, which is extremely powerful, and is played in decks where the downside of discarding your hand at end of turn is either a benefit (as with megrim) or not a big deal (because all the spells in your hand are cheap, meaning you just got to draw and use 7 cards with no downside) Jen X fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Aug 12, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 01:06
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GeneX posted:To understand why it's broken . . . it draws 7 cards for 5 mana Yeah you can just do away with the rest of that
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Aug 12, 2017 02:31
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EmmyOk posted:I looked up that card you mentioned and it's actually a great example of my next general question. I've been following the card reveals in this thread and sometimes people respond "oh that's a great card" and it just seems normal to me. Why is Memory Jar so OP? I guess it's good at momentarily screwing over an opponent if you think they have a good hand? It's more complicated than that because a lot of exceptionally broken poo poo was legal around this time. Decks this broken aren't even legal in Vintage because Vintage as a format (while technically every Magic card is legal) has the sense to at least restrict you to 1 copy of the really broken stuff. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 12, 2017 |
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Aug 12, 2017 02:56
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