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Another way to look at it is that the breaker of chains just enslaved a bunch of dudes into her army under a death sentence
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Aug 14, 2017 15:21
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I do dig the moral ambiguity they brought back with the Dany thing. It's really felt like things were becoming too black and white in the last two seasons, with Cersei turning pure heel as a case in point. In the books I always took her as more of an unfortunately raised narcissist who couldn't quite get her head around why everyone hated her. Show Cersei just feels boring and one-dimensional. The idea that no one is 100% good or evil seems to have been lost on the show runners either because they don't care, or they don't have time anymore to do that kind of character development. waffle enthusiast fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 15:26
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Yeah it was just implemented poorly when it's a question of "do I burn the guys who literally just betrayed their own allegiance to join with Cersei and are now refusing to even take the black."
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Aug 14, 2017 15:29
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Remember how last time Dany executed someone, it turned an entire city against her and got her queensguard and dickless ambushed in a hallway?
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Aug 14, 2017 15:44
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Being forced to take the black is different from slavery because...you're also supposed to be a sexless warrior type dude who guards the nation against monsters or northerners or whatever.
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Aug 14, 2017 15:46
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I like how Jon and Sam don't know she torched Sam's dad and brother. I'm sure that's going to be a "shocking reveal" next season. Really strain Jon and Dany's relationship.
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Aug 14, 2017 15:54
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Being forced to take the black is different from slavery because...you're also supposed to be a sexless warrior type dude who guards the nation against monsters or northerners or whatever. She didn't force them to take the black the options were "join me or die"
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Aug 14, 2017 15:55
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Smiling Jack posted:She didn't force them to take the black the options were "join me or die" Also I suspected some followup on sam stealing heartsbane. Even a throwaway line but I guess not, he's just all the way dead. Maybe he'll go see his mom before he goes home.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:04
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Smiling Jack posted:She didn't force them to take the black the options were "join me or die" Also not like she can send Dothraki north to make sure they actually go to the Wall Solice Kirsk posted:I like how Jon and Sam don't know she torched Sam's dad and brother. I'm sure that's going to be a "shocking reveal" next season. Really strain Jon and Dany's relationship.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:15
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Jon: She killed sam's dad. Ohhhhh the humanity. Davos: You could do better to pretend to give a poo poo about human lives, your grace. Jon:  Dude sounded like a prick to me.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:17
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Is this the first time they've acknowledged how old the kids have gotten? I just feel like characters shouting IT'S BEEN YEARS is the first I've heard of them stop pretending this has taken only like a year.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:20
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I don't have HBO, did Sam finish his Maester's degree?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:22
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I don't have HBO, did Sam finish his Maester's degree? Like most entrepreneurs, he dropped out to join a startup up North
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Aug 14, 2017 16:27
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Randyll Tarly getting purged was extremely dope. I'm loving the breakneck pace of the show now. It's like the anti-Mereen. Sidon and drogon cleaned up the pointless and obnoxious 'Danny has allies' plot. Now we can hurtle along toward the zombies v dragons flight we all were waiting for With a moronic a team interlude first I guess. Where'd the rest of the brotherhood go?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:47
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:I'm loving the breakneck pace of the show now. It's like the anti-Mereen. this is pretty much how i felt. Davos/Gendry/Tyrion make a fun team. I hope they get more screen time together. Wish I could have a taste of Davos's fermented crab.
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Aug 14, 2017 16:48
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also Dick Tarly was great but only because of his name. he will probably be the closest we ever get to Nimble Dick Crabb as far as great names go:
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Aug 14, 2017 16:54
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Blind Sally posted:also Dick Tarly was great but only because of his name. he will probably be the closest we ever get to Nimble Dick Crabb as far as great names go: Ha! Awesome!
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Aug 14, 2017 17:17
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I'm so glad for Sam's comment about Bran and mentioning several years, to make even the slightest attempt at acknowledging the passage of time. It's just a shame they don't do it in the dozens of other spots where it needs to happen, like saying how battle X took place Y days/weeks ago, or how Jon's been gone for X months now. I also like Jon and Gendry's meeting, but man it's going to get really awkward when Jon finds out the truth about who his parents actually are, though I have to imagine he's going to have a "wow that's insane, but Ned Stark raised me as his own and I'll always consider him my father" reaction. Max posted:Yeah I was confused why the show was trying to convince me that what she did was bad because it seemed to solve the issue of forcing the rest of the army to surrender. Not to mention she executed a man (and his idiot son) who threw away centuries of family loyalty for a possible increase in his own power and holdings. She shouldn't have given him a chance, she should've just burned him for being as treacherous as Littlefinger but not even a fraction as smart. Also how the hell did Sam steal the family's magic sword and his dad didn't immedately go to Oldtown with soldiers to recover it and possibly execute Sam? Arcsquad12 posted:Remember how last time Dany executed someone, it turned an entire city against her and got her queensguard and dickless ambushed in a hallway? The last time she executed someone it was two of the three Masters whose army she was in the middle of annihilating, with the third left alive to pass on her message/warning.  Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah I know but like, they kinda should address that. Is she gonna free the slaves at castle black or is that different because, uhh, the north is good guys or whatever. The vast majority of the Night's Watch are convicts who opted to join to get out of their prison/death sentence or willing idiots like Jon Snow. IDK what you think slavery is but the Night's Watch isn't it.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:17
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Sam "Alpha Nerd Dork Destroyer" Tarly. Crushes puss on the reg, has a valeryian sword is probably going to end up as Warden of the Reach. He doesn't need no stinking degree Evil Fluffy posted:
It's Australia.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:23
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Dany is a total tyrant in the making and she's utterly reprehensible, but the show's not going to have the nuts to go the mad queen end or actually make more of her being a piece of poo poo.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:25
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Dany is a total tyrant in the making and she's utterly reprehensible, but the show's not going to have the nuts to go the mad queen end or actually make more of her being a piece of poo poo. are you kidding? Gendry's back on the board. Dany and Jon will both die beyond the wall. Jon will die this season and come back again, but this time as the New Night King. Dany will take her dragons north of the wall to get him back, only for them to be killed and become bone dragons--and her the Night Queen. the Brother's w/o Banners and Tyrion will get their proof for King's Landing and Cersei will take the threat seriously considering her foes, Jon and Dany, are dead. everyone will team up and defeat the white walkers with more conventional means, surprisingly enough. Jon will be assassinated by Arya with the Valyrian dagger. Dany will be killed by Jorah, who will get back his father's sword and redeem himself as a Mormont. Bronn, Jaime, and Euron, along with a few good men, will shoot down the dragons from their boats with obsidian ballistas. the combined might of the Dothraki, Unsullied, Northern Armies, Greyjoy Navy, Iron Bank Mercs, and Southern Armies will defeat the White Walkers (Unsullied and Dothraki fight to put down the undead queen and preserve her memory of the Breaker of Chains, not what she has become). Then, with the threat beyond the wall defeated, Sansa will assassinate Cersei with the help of Littlefinger, then turn around and assassinate Littlefinger, then marry Gendry to solidify her hold on the throne. The series will end with a scene of Arya, who everyone thought died beyond the wall, sneaking into Sansa's quarters with the Valyrian dagger. the last shot will be a quick cut to black, you'll hear a gunshot, then the words TO BE CONTINUED?! will appear on the screen. HBO will put out a Game of Thrones movie the following year.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:58
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I just wanna put down money on the Night's King being a load-bearing boss of some kind. His death will cause a bunch of wights and other Walkers to collapse if not all of them. It's too stupid not to happen at this point.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:07
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Max posted:Yeah it was just implemented poorly when it's a question of "do I burn the guys who literally just betrayed their own allegiance to join with Cersei and are now refusing to even take the black." Like always it would have been a cool plot option to send an interesting character to the Wall instead of just killing them off. Dickon was just there so Bronn could laugh at the name.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:26
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randyll was poo poo and it's good that he's dead of course, dickon and any other lordlings who survived should have been kept as hostages against the future good behavior of their own liege men, as would be standard practice
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Aug 14, 2017 18:29
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Kavak posted:I just wanna put down money on the Night's King being a load-bearing boss of some kind. His death will cause a bunch of wights and other Walkers to collapse if not all of them. It's too stupid not to happen at this point. Is it stupid though? The White Walkers are using necromancy to animate the dead and it makes sense that destroying them would leave the animated hordes without a puppeteer and cause them to collapse. Video games are very clear about how pets work upon the casters death.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:32
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Dangerllama posted:I do dig the moral ambiguity they brought back with the Dany thing. It's really felt like things were becoming too black and white in the last two seasons, with Cersei turning pure heel as a case in point. In the books I always took her as more of an unfortunately raised narcissist who couldn't quite get her head around why everyone hated her. Show Cersei just feels boring and one-dimensional. I don't see it. Cersei is written so retardedly fickle and evil in the books it was a big part of why their lost their appeal to me. Let's see: -She tortured her kid brother (as a child) -Threatened to rip the tongues out of servants (as a child) -Killed one of her maids because she fancied Jaime (as a child) -Killed her husband -Seduced her dumb cousin -Killed a High Septon for knowing too much -Started a realm-wide headhunt for dwarves -Got her very own Dr. Mengele/Frankenstein to kill people in horrid ways and breed monstrosities. Not a lot of nuance in that one, however you slice it.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:The vast majority of the Night's Watch are convicts who opted to join to get out of their prison/death sentence or willing idiots like Jon Snow. IDK what you think slavery is but the Night's Watch isn't it.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:53
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:They're forced to do grueling work for life with no pay, but it's different because they could have opted for immediate death, instead? That's slavery no matter how you spin it, whether you conclude it's okay or not. The answer is to kill them, then, not free them. Is "slavery" in this form really worse than death? People in real life object to forms of labor coincident with life imprisonment, I suppose, but most aren't calling it slavery.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:10
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The answer is to kill them, then, not free them. Is "slavery" in this form really worse than death? People in real life object to forms of labor coincident with life imprisonment, I suppose, but most aren't calling it slavery.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:37
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The answer is to kill them, then, not free them. Is "slavery" in this form really worse than death? People in real life object to forms of labor coincident with life imprisonment, I suppose, but most aren't calling it slavery. Let me tell you about my friend Marx...
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Aug 14, 2017 20:55
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Any chance when Cersei finally get her poo poo up to the North that the Night King in some silly way just use his magic to control the Mountain or something stupid? I mean he's already dead so why not force a 'Clegane-bowl'.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:56
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'm not saying it's worse than death - throughout history, I'd wager most slaves would have chosen the status quo in lieu of death. It is slavery by any definition I can think of, regardless. It's not by any normal definition. In what sense are they legally property?
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Aug 14, 2017 20:57
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the dialog between Davos and Gendry this ep was a good representative parable for the dialog between the books and the show GannerOne posted:Any chance when Cersei finally get her poo poo up to the North that the Night King in some silly way just use his magic to control the Mountain or something stupid? I mean he's already dead so why not force a 'Clegane-bowl'. per spoilers I don't think cersei will ever send forces up North, much less her own personal retinue the Mountain is cersei's personal bodyguard, so the only reason he'd be on the front lines against the white walkers is if Cersei was, and that ain't happening unless they freeze the seas and attack the southern coastlines or somesuch PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 21:01
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Number Ten Cocks posted:It's not by any normal definition. And yet all Persians were legally property of the Emperor but some weren't slaves? Also, you can keep a slave even if it's illegal to do so. I remember a case concerning a group of soccer ultras in my country called The Myrmidons who kept several people as slaves in a beach hut and forced them to work without pay, under threat of violence. Those people were slaves no matter their legal status.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:08
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GannerOne posted:Any chance when Cersei finally get her poo poo up to the North that the Night King in some silly way just use his magic to control the Mountain or something stupid? I mean he's already dead so why not force a 'Clegane-bowl'. What I want to know is whether Jon can be effected by the Night King's magic. Without some twist like that, all his death gave us was a lame season cliffhanger and a loophole out of his vows. From a story perspective it didn't do much for the show imho. Granted I'm probably just jaded thanks to the show all but abandoning the direwolves and the 'every Stark who still has one can warg' storyline, and the foreshadowing of 'when you die you might accidentally warg into your animal permanently' stuff. Like, Jon's death in the books should at the very least change him as well as get him out of his vows. He'll change either because of warging into Ghost for a while, or because both Beric and Cat are warning signs that a R'hllor rez makes you lose part of yourself. It will work as both a story and character beat, rather than just the vow loophole. The show has all but forgotten he is a reanimated corpse, beyond Dany asking about it every so often. I doubt Thoros or Beric will even notice the lord's light is powering him, and we'll have to wait for Jon to tell Dany what happened to ever have people discuss the fact Jon came back from the dead. I hope it goes something like this: Dany: you got stabbed in the heart loving tell me what that means already Jon: i died and a red priestess raised me from the dead Dany: wow i'm wet now let's gently caress
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Aug 14, 2017 21:12
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Smiling Jack posted:Another way to look at it is that the breaker of chains just enslaved a bunch of dudes into her army under a death sentence They were already feudal slaves, and at least in a feudal system your slavery kinda morphs and unfair taxation once the fighting is over.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:17
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The first Cleganebowl where Robert Strong kills The Hound, The Hound gets revived by Beric/Thoros (depending on Book/Show timeline) and The Hound wins the Second Cleganebowl and then the Night's King revives Robert Strongest for the rubber match.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:20
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Well, I guess we know why Davos was such a good smuggler.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:21
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Zenithe posted:Well, I guess we know why Davos was such a good smuggler. The Crab Man.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:26
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Davos gave those soldiers crabs!?!?!?!??!?!?!
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Aug 14, 2017 21:33
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