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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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this is more on topic really: https://twitter.com/IndivisibleTeam/status/896756106554470401 liberals pretend DSA and IWW weren't at charlottesville edit: https://twitter.com/copcemetery/status/896952033785384960 indivisible organized a vigil for heather heyer where she was barely mentioned at all Condiv fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 18:17
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i have no idea who or what indivisible is or when they were astroturfed but here's the kind of radical poo poo they're up to
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Aug 14, 2017 18:30
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Condiv posted:this is more on topic really: What a bunch of ghouls. You know this is why liberals cannot be trusted. They'll stab you in the back.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:30
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Better is the Vigil in NC that Indivisible tried to shut down https://twitter.com/imastringbean/status/896868804692725760
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Aug 14, 2017 18:44
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Agnosticnixie posted:Better is the Vigil in NC that Indivisible tried to shut down yikes... the centrists wanting to sing "this land is our land" in response is sad as gently caress
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Aug 14, 2017 19:34
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Condiv posted:yikes... A song by noted centrist Woody Guthrie.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:47
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I've never hear of Indivisible USA up until this very moment, but it sounds like they're yet another kinda poorly run 501(c) organization. I'm not entirely sure they speak for anyone but themselves. As for substance, I don't actually see a ton of difference between what they stand for and what DSA stands for, which makes them predictably childish.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:48
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Majorian posted:A song by noted centrist Woody Guthrie. tbf, most liberals don't know it's about abolishing private property, they think it's a cute patriotic song.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:02
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I assume it is a pretty standard astroturf "activist" org/PAC, especially considering was organized by congressional staffers. From their website, it seems 90-95% of their focus is Trump.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:03
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Majorian posted:A song by noted centrist Woody Guthrie. by the same logic this is a leftist commercial! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ueDHn2HTk Agnosticnixie posted:tbf, most liberals don't know it's about abolishing private property, they think it's a cute patriotic song. exactly
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Aug 14, 2017 20:04
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Majorian posted:A song by noted centrist Woody Guthrie. majorian your bad-demness is leaking again
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Aug 14, 2017 20:05
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https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/897186708843892736 yikes! leftists are bad cause they oppose israel genociding palestinians
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Aug 14, 2017 21:15
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Agnosticnixie posted:Better is the Vigil in NC that Indivisible tried to shut down Guys, what if, and I'm just asking questions here- if the (centrist) Democrats are the real racists?
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Aug 14, 2017 21:25
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Mister Facetious posted:Guys, what if, and I'm just asking questions here- if the (centrist) Democrats are the real racists? Sorry, the lady has the talking stick.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:26
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Mister Facetious posted:Guys, what if, and I'm just asking questions here- if the (centrist) Democrats are the real racists? You mean the people who nominated a literal slaveowner to be president? Nah, they couldn't, they couldn't be!!!
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Aug 14, 2017 21:47
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NewForumSoftware posted:majorian your bad-demness is leaking again Leave it to you to miss  there.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:52
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Majorian posted:Leave it to you to miss Missing the joke is like this thread's signature move.
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Aug 14, 2017 21:58
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There seems to be an unsettling response of democrats to apply blame to the left over nazi murderers.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:01
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Sneakster posted:There seems to be an unsettling response of democrats to apply blame to the left over nazi murderers. Yeah, I'm phoneposting, so I can't post the tweets, but Kos has been engaging in his standard chickenfuckery today.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:07
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Sneakster posted:There seems to be an unsettling response of democrats to apply blame to the left over nazi murderers. If the left rises against the right, that emboldens right-wing election turnout. Democrats cannot count on left-wing turnout without rebelling against their donors. This, combined with their general disdain for leftists, and their desire to remain, basically, Rockefeller Republicans, fuel their response to leftists. Above all else, they want to depress right-wing turnout and not see them emboldened.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:10
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Huzanko posted:If the left rises against the right, that emboldens right-wing election turnout. Democrats cannot count on left-wing turnout without rebelling against their donors. This, combined with their general disdain for leftists, and their desire to remain, basically, Rockefeller Republicans, fuel their response to leftists. I'm not sure they've been terribly successful on that last objective!
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Aug 14, 2017 22:20
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Yeah if sticking to donors depresses your turnout you're not doing a good job at politics.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:22
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Huzanko posted:If the left rises against the right, that emboldens right-wing election turnout. Democrats cannot count on left-wing turnout without rebelling against their donors. This, combined with their general disdain for leftists, and their desire to remain, basically, Rockefeller Republicans, fuel their response to leftists. perhaps it is time to organize and develop a party of the working class?
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Aug 14, 2017 22:33
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https://twitter.com/MattBinder/status/897203776133758976
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Aug 14, 2017 22:41
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I didn't know you could be less sympathetic than nazis, but somehow. Somehow.
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Aug 14, 2017 23:09
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If only West gad given people at the protest adamantium skeletons proof against vehicular homicide!
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Aug 14, 2017 23:14
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R. Guyovich posted:perhaps it is time to organize and develop a party of the working class?
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Aug 14, 2017 23:36
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WampaLord posted:America is more than California. You can't just say that one blue state is fine, therefore problem solved. kamala harris is a senator from california and her tweet was about california farms https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/896034783247183872 https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/895268506631065600 twodot posted:I realize this thread isn't great, but seriously? Quoting averages instead of medians? Totally unsourced claims about averages? Pretending you can just brush off a concern by talking about solely California, even assuming everything you say is true and relevant? Complete speculation that a totally different stat is "likely small"? What value can you possibly think this is adding? if you can find data that lists the median I'd be happy to read it, but I'm the only one providing data of any sort here MooselanderII posted:Horse poo poo, you have never unwaveringly advocated for anything aside from maintaining the status quo. i'm sincerely sorry your brain isn't able to discern any nuance between full communism now and the status quo, but i appreciate that you've abandoned this idiotic smear of kamala harris
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Aug 15, 2017 00:01
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kamala harris is utter trash
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Aug 15, 2017 00:03
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JeffersonClay posted:kamala harris is a senator from california and her tweet was about california farms You didn't actually counter my argument in any way.
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Aug 15, 2017 00:04
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WampaLord posted:You didn't actually counter my argument in any way. if you're not arguing about kamala harris or california farmworkers I don't really care to
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Aug 15, 2017 00:05
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JeffersonClay posted:if you're not arguing about kamala harris or california farmworkers I don't really care to To be fair, your post that CA farm workers make an average of $15/hour was disingenuous at best. It's technically correct, but doesn't really address the fact that those wages are clustered around piece rate workers and don't hold up at all if you're looking at full time equivalent pay. http://www.epi.org/blog/farmworker-wages-in-california-large-gap-between-full-time-equivalent-and-actual-earnings/ quote:In fact, in 2015, workers who received their primary earnings from agricultural employers earned an average of $17,500—less than 60 percent of the average annual wage of a full-time equivalent (FTE) worker in California. So these workers may be getting $15/hour, but average yearly earnings are on par or worse than a full-time minimum wage employee.
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Aug 15, 2017 00:22
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Paradoxish posted:To be fair, your post that CA farm workers make an average of $15/hour was disingenuous at best. It's technically correct, but doesn't really address the fact that those wages are clustered around piece rate workers and don't hold up at all if you're looking at full time equivalent pay. Isn't most farm work seasonal? Is that a problem of pay rates or a problem of the work not being available year around and there being nothing in between to sustain them?
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Aug 15, 2017 00:31
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JC regurgitating corporate talking points that later turn out to be utter horseshit? Well I never!
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Aug 15, 2017 00:32
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Lightning Knight posted:Isn't most farm work seasonal? Is that a problem of pay rates or a problem of the work not being available year around and there being nothing in between to sustain them? It's both. The higher end is piece rate work, so while it's technically true that the rates are better than minimum wage, you also have to absolutely work your rear end off to get there and even then the seasonal nature of the work means that your annual pay is pretty poor. I'm not saying JC was lying, I'm just saying that it's incredibly disingenuous to point to hourly agricultural pay as something that's actually good in any sense. Nobody is going to do farm work like this if they can get even a minimum wage job with full-time hours because the minimum wage job will pay more and be far less demanding. edit- quote:So what’s behind the “about $30,000 a year” for a farmworker’s annual pay? Employers report employment and wages when they pay unemployment insurance taxes, and these data are published as the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages (QCEW). According to the QCEW, 16,400 California agricultural establishments employed an average of 421,300 workers during 2015 and paid them $12.8 billion, or $30,300 per year for a FTE employee, equivalent to $14.60 an hour for 2,080 hours of work. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 00:38
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Paradoxish posted:Nobody is going to do farm work like this if they can get even a minimum wage job with full-time hours because the minimum wage job will pay more and be far less demanding. while the farm work is back-breaking and physically demanding, any minimum wage job at full time hours is soul-rending and spiritually demanding. being seasonal work, they could find other work as supplementary income, which they do because none of us serfs working for minimum wage or less are working just one job - especially not since most of these minimum wage jobs refuse to offer full-time hours
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Aug 15, 2017 01:19
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I've never heard a convincing argument as to why we shouldn't just enforce labor laws in these jobs and let the market sort it out like we do everything else
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Aug 15, 2017 02:10
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Paradoxish posted:To be fair, your post that CA farm workers make an average of $15/hour was disingenuous at best. It's technically correct, but doesn't really address the fact that those wages are clustered around piece rate workers and don't hold up at all if you're looking at full time equivalent pay. In addition to what you said, the actual hourly rate is more around between $12-14/hr, which isn't that much more than the minimum wage (which is $10.00-10.50 in CA).
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Aug 15, 2017 02:12
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call to action posted:I've never heard a convincing argument as to why we shouldn't just enforce labor laws in these jobs and let the market sort it out like we do everything else Lawyers cost money and poors, especially foreign poors- don't have any. America is actually helping them in the first place!
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Aug 15, 2017 02:22
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Do agricultural workers in California earn exorbitant wages? No. Is agricultural work incredibly physically demanding? Yes. Are significant numbers of agricultural workers in California paid below the minimum wage? No. I'm not suggesting strawberry pickers have some luxury existence here. I'm suggesting this: steinrokkan posted:Hello, it is disingenuous to pretend that arguments against immigration driven by literal plantation owners are arguments against immigration of all sorts. See: When people point out that produce rots in absence of immigrants, they mean produce rots because there are no below-average-wage immigrants to pick it. Immigrants need to be part of the same labour movement as born citizens, and they need to enjoy the same benefits. Basing agriculture on the existence of an illegal underclass that thoroughly distorts the labor market is a very liberal thing to do, since it only serves the owners / employers. Is predicated on a lot of (frankly racist) assumptions about the labor market for agricultural workers in California. They aren't slaves on plantations and they aren't distorting the labor market. They are unionizing and successfully demanding better wages and working conditions. Paradoxish posted:I'm not saying JC was lying, I'm just saying that it's incredibly disingenuous to point to hourly agricultural pay as something that's actually good in any sense. Nobody is going to do farm work like this if they can get even a minimum wage job with full-time hours because the minimum wage job will pay more and be far less demanding. I'm pretty sure the UFW would strenuously disagree here. Agricultural labor requires significant skill, and agricultural laborers with those skills earn significant wages. Suggesting they're all ready to line up at a McDonalds for 10.50 an hour is pretty drat insulting. Again, the UFW endorsed kamala harris.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:50
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