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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Condiv posted:it's not particularly endearing that hillary had a staffer make her tweets about the charlottesville tragedy either This is starting to move into the broader "thoughts and prayers" problem, where public displays of sadness for tragedies expressed by politicians are largely useless exercises in self-aggrandizement and fairly ghoulish in that context. Edit: That, and I'd argue that the less Hillary Clinton is in the spotlight, the better off most of us are likely to be. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 05:10
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Lightning Knight posted:This is starting to move into the broader "thoughts and prayers" problem, where public displays of sadness for tragedies expressed by politicians are largely useless exercises in self-aggrandizement and fairly ghoulish in that context. come to think of it, if I were a ghoulish politician, I'd just have a rolodex of preplanned disaster response tweets, then look it over and edit it to be more specific, like newspapers do for obituaries
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Aug 16, 2017 05:15
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poor horseshoe theory loving centrists... https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/894298441626648576 they must be having a tough time after donald trump embraced their idiotic rhetoric
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Aug 16, 2017 05:22
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Isn't that the insane "game theory" idiot? What does he even do? Why does anyone even give a poo poo?
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Aug 16, 2017 05:23
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Lightning Knight posted:Isn't that the insane "game theory" idiot? he tweets, and lots of centrists like him cause he punches left. joy ann reid has been doing the horseshit theory "alt-left" stuff too, as well as a lot of other liberals
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Aug 16, 2017 05:29
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Lightning Knight posted:Isn't that the insane "game theory" idiot? Apparently, he's a "futurist, strategist, author, bassist": Who Is Eric Garland? quote:He became famous for writing a twitter rant in 127 tweets that purportedly explained how Hillary could have lost: Epic Eric Garland Twitter Thread/Novella/Opus This poo poo just keeps on going: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/what_the_hell_is_wrong_with_america_s_establishment_liberals.html quote:Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek and Vanity Fair called it “a MUST read.” Clara Jeffery, editor in chief of Mother Jones, gushingly described it as the “single greatest thread I have ever read on Twitter. And in its way a Federalist Paper for 2016.” “Great writing, using a form that doesn’t usually lend itself to greatness,” gurgled the Washington Post’s David Fahrenthold. Tim Fullerton, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s director of communications, glooped that “if there were a Pulitzer for tweeting—this thread would be the undisputed winner of 2016.” Patton Oswalt: “Succinct & propulsive writing.” Sean Illing: “Bullshit-free.” Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 05:29
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Don't know why everyone's surprised that Abuela wouldn't condemn the Nazis. She doesn't want to alienate her base that's going to fuel her 2020 run. Simple as that.
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Aug 16, 2017 05:47
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C. Everett Koop posted:Don't know why everyone's surprised that Abuela wouldn't condemn the Nazis. She doesn't want to alienate her base that's going to fuel her 2020 run. Simple as that. “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two Nazis in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8
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Aug 16, 2017 05:56
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C. Everett Koop posted:Don't know why everyone's surprised that Abuela wouldn't condemn the Nazis. She doesn't want to alienate her base that's going to fuel her 2020 run. Simple as that. but she did condemn the nazies what is going on here oh youre a gbs troll, right
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Aug 16, 2017 08:28
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Goa Tse-tung posted:but she did condemn the nazies what is going on here nah, she condemned white supremacists. nazis is a harsher term that she decided to shy away from for some reason, despite it being completely warranted in this situation
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Aug 16, 2017 08:31
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Yeah she condemned the Nazis in about the strongest terms possible for a political poo poo show like her, which isn't much, but she did condemn them. Saying she didn't is disingenuous. It's just that after Trump's speech who's the one who comes out of the woodwork to defend antifascists? Mitt loving Romney. And if you point out the fact of it in the Bad Democrats thread they lose their poo poo.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:35
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Condiv posted:nah, she condemned white supremacists. nazis is a harsher term that she decided to shy away from for some reason, despite it being completely warranted in this situation I get what you're saying, but it counts as condemning the people that were there.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:36
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Kilroy posted:eh, it mostly counts it is a condemnation, but it's a whole lot weaker nazis are quickly and readily associated with genocide, concentration camps, and mass murder in general. there's a wide spectrum of what's considered white supremacist so it doesn't conjure up the same nasty images. we should use the strongest condemnation we have available, and the nazi shoe fits in this situation so i say call em nazis
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Aug 16, 2017 08:38
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Kilroy posted:Yeah she condemned the Nazis in about the strongest terms possible for a political poo poo show like her, which isn't much, but she did condemn them. Saying she didn't is disingenuous. Brainworms. They have brainworms, op.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:39
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Hillary Clinton is the poor man's Mitt Romney.
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Aug 16, 2017 08:41
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Condiv posted:it is a condemnation, but it's a whole lot weaker On the other hand, I guess I tried that, and it seemed to have no effect at all, so 
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Aug 16, 2017 08:47
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Kilroy posted:I guess, in terms of rhetoric, it seems to be pushing it to accuse her of not doing something that she sort of did, when you've got the clear opening of "yeah but Mitt Romney did more, so wtf" right there. when i posted about it in this thread, it was specifically in terms of "mitt romney can call these assholes nazis, why not hillary?"
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Aug 16, 2017 08:51
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JeffersonClay posted:No, I'm defending Kamala Harris' tweet that criticized Trump's deportation of undocumented farm workers due to its impact on California farm production. And dumb leftists are white knighting Trump's immigration policy. What is impacting Farm production is that California's economy has improved to the point that people have better option then low paying back breaking jobs. Harris's statement makes her look like she only cares about Agricultural businesses not people. That she doesn't realize that most of the Hispanics that live in California aren't farm workers. Plus the worker shortage could be solved by increasing wages. And Farm workers are generally not paid hourly but by piece work. Such as how many baskets they fill over the day.
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Aug 16, 2017 09:54
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Hillary condemned the Nazis. Jesus Christ she's already plenty terrible you don't need to make up pedantic bullshit. See also: Rounding up her use of prison labor to being a literal slave owner.
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Aug 16, 2017 11:19
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readingatwork posted:Hillary condemned the Nazis. Jesus Christ she's already plenty terrible you don't need to make up pedantic bullshit. What's the difference?
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Aug 16, 2017 12:46
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Not the slaveowning derail again Mods, pls made a rule against making light of the Clinton slave holding enterprises.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:21
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e: nah
treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 13:22
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Honestly saying "white supremacists" probably makes her speech more impactful than NAzi, because in the context of current discourse it's a more specific accusation, it is less likely to get thrown out as an over-reaction, or ignored because of the overuse of calling everything Nazi. E: I don't doubt that people itt are aware of the meaning behind "Nazi", but I feel for lots of people it's going to be a too vague label from a dusty past to really rouse much of a response. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 13:27
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The whole point of these troglodytes is that they desperately don't want to be called 'nazis'. Don't play their game and don't enable them.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:47
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This is all Hillary's fault for being a wretched campaigner.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:55
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I'm incredibly glad that people throughout the spectrum of the left are showing more restraint in attacking one another than some of the people on Twitter and in this thread. This isn't a time to make political hay against the "alt-left" or the "centrists".
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Aug 16, 2017 14:36
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Still sucks that it took literal nazi uprisings and leftists being murdered on camera to get 'moderates' to quit the "alt-leeeeft!!!" garbage. Somewhat. It's still a fact that the DLC and their rear end-kissers fear engaged, organized leftist movements way, WAAAY more than reoublicans. Or white supremacists, for that matter. Nazis are just something they can condemn with a tweet and look good doing it. Actual, active leftists are rivals for power.
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Aug 16, 2017 15:09
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Sephyr posted:Still sucks that it took literal nazi uprisings and leftists being murdered on camera to get 'moderates' to quit the "alt-leeeeft!!!" garbage. Somewhat. p much steinrokkan posted:Honestly saying "white supremacists" probably makes her speech more impactful than NAzi, because in the context of current discourse it's a more specific accusation, it is less likely to get thrown out as an over-reaction, or ignored because of the overuse of calling everything Nazi. white supremacist is the vaguer label, and it's also less impactful. nazi is what those fuckers were. the people who throw out the accusation as "over-reaction" are all too likely to be sympathizers than anything else. see call to action as an example, who thinks the people in charlottesville were just trolling and weren't really nazis
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Aug 16, 2017 15:57
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Democrazy posted:I'm incredibly glad that people throughout the spectrum of the left are showing more restraint in attacking one another than some of the people on Twitter and in this thread. if the centrists can't actually unite with us, i don't think it's a good idea to fall in line. we've done that for years, and all it's got it is us being called racist for wanting universal healthcare
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Aug 16, 2017 15:58
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Condiv posted:if the centrists can't actually unite with us, i don't think it's a good idea to fall in line. we've done that for years, and all it's got it is us being called racist for wanting universal healthcare By conflating the views and prejudices of a few into the views of the many, statements like this are just repeating what was done to supporters of the Sanders campaign. I think what we're seeing is an opportunity to move past all this, but the only way that's going to happen is if people lay down their arms and start communicating honestly and openly. I'm tired of having these debates and arguments that lead nowhere. I see more substantial agreement among the left (including "centrists" and liberals) than I have in any time in my life and we can use that. Why can't we stop playing into this ginned up conflict about wings and start aligning our agendas around common goals?
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Aug 16, 2017 16:08
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Democrazy posted:By conflating the views and prejudices of a few into the views of the many, statements like this are just repeating what was done to supporters of the Sanders campaign. I think what we're seeing is an opportunity to move past all this, but the only way that's going to happen is if people lay down their arms and start communicating honestly and openly. You first.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:09
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Democrazy posted:By conflating the views and prejudices of a few into the views of the many, statements like this are just repeating what was done to supporters of the Sanders campaign. I think what we're seeing is an opportunity to move past all this, but the only way that's going to happen is if people lay down their arms and start communicating honestly and openly. we actually need to see some actual movement on that though from the center. all the liberals are agreeing to right now is that nazis are bad (duh). i don't want a repeat of what happened to the sanders campaign and their supporters, which is why i want the centrists to actually show a will to unite and compromise with the left instead of just wanting us to fall in line and shut up further, if the centrists are still calling the shots after this we can count on more donald trumps or worse. we actually need to start fixing things in this country, and tax credits for job creators isn't doing it
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Aug 16, 2017 16:18
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If you spend more time taking shots at centrists on Twitter than you do at literal Nazis then you're just playing into the same stupid set-up as before. Better to point out who is on the streets than to whine about a tweet not being harsh enough. Eventually the centrist narrative will fall apart.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:18
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I think we can punch Nazis and yell at the people enabling them at the same time.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:21
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:If you spend more time taking shots at centrists on Twitter than you do at literal Nazis then you're just playing into the same stupid set-up as before. Better to point out who is on the streets than to whine about a tweet not being harsh enough. Eventually the centrist narrative will fall apart. i don't. but i'm not gonna stop taking shots at centrists until they actually decide they want to compromise and unite instead of demanding fealty. i can do both
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Aug 16, 2017 16:21
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Inescapable Duck posted:You first. I was a supporter of Bernie Sanders' campaign since his announcement, I occupied D.C., and I have pretty consistently supported leftist positions. I know that doesn't make me above criticism, but I've listened to people from Angela Davis to Terry McCaullife. I respect people on all sides. However, I have also always taken the position that it's important to back the lefternmost candidate that is viable, even if I'm not in love with all of their positions personally. I was at a rally and march two days ago. There were speakers and marchers that were anarchists, Trotskyites, democratic socialists and liberals, and even though we didn't agree with everything, we got along just fine. It's very possible. I've seen it.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:26
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Democrazy posted:I was a supporter of Bernie Sanders' campaign since his announcement, I occupied D.C., and I have pretty consistently supported leftist positions. I know that doesn't make me above criticism, but I've listened to people from Angela Davis to Terry McCaullife. I respect people on all sides. However, I have also always taken the position that it's important to back the lefternmost candidate that is viable, even if I'm not in love with all of their positions personally. it's easy to get along on "let's fight nazis" if your head is screwed on just the least bit right. problem is, a ton of liberals are horseshoe worshipping idiots that think the left is just slightly better than nazis, and haven't had an issue equivocating us with fascists up till now. if they want to fight nazis with us that's cool and good, but don't expect any greater unity than that cause they don't want it
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Aug 16, 2017 16:30
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I think the point is to ally up for now. There's no primaries to argue about right now anyway, we can have that argument later. I'm not trying to stop anyone from being wary of centrists, but there is a more pressing issue, aka the rise of Nazis in America.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:36
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To give you an example of what I'm talking about, consider this article: WaPo There's nothing that New Democracy is talking about that goes against what Sanders has been saying. Sanders made many of the same points that they made and crafted his message specifically to reach out to the same voters that they seem to be targeting. New Democracy seems to be fighting just for the sake of fighting and I think that that's pretty stupid. It's not about substance anymore. I would be pretty shocked if the 2020 nominee didn't support at the very least a public option (most likely Medicare for all) and a $15 minimum wage. That's the clear direction of the party.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:38
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I don't want to focus on shaking my first at the democrats in the Trump thread, but there's no need to mince words in the bitching about democrats thread.Sephyr posted:Still sucks that it took literal nazi uprisings and leftists being murdered on camera to get 'moderates' to quit the "alt-leeeeft!!!" garbage. Somewhat. Democrazy posted:This isn't a time to make political hay against the "alt-left" or the "centrists". There is no alt-left, everything associated is a completely mainstream and popular view. Centrists via the role they play in the unfolding power struggle between fascists and socialists are in fact an existential danger. The democrats will pander to racism to protect the interests of capital to prevent economic reforms, which in turn will feed the sectarian violence that's going to consume the country. It's completely reasonable to take the Clintons to task over this, for fucks sake they escalated the drug war and executed the enfeebled to let racists know they're own their side. I don't think the people who sold out desperate women and children are going to care about the damage done to the country fermenting ethnic sectarian movement due to suppressing economic populism. I mean the following in the most dramatic way possible, because I'm reasonably sure its basically just true and not even hyperbole. Seizing the levers of power in the Democratic party as fast as possible is the absolute most critical factor for the future of our country. This is no longer about just idealistically wanting policy that helps people and improves lives. We're effectively in a great depression for people under 30. The alt right is the nihilistic violent reaction to losing prestige and expectations. Prester Jane brought up states like Ohio with no public transit infrastructure and white super majorities: energy costs are going to magnify the effect of automation knocking the legs out from under labor especially in places like that. At this rate I'm willing to bet social security will be scrapped as the Boomers die off and their health problem epidemics have catastrophic costs to medicare. If we don't radically alter our economic power structure predicated on brutalizing people seen as disposable in an age of technology that renders more and more people superfluous to its function, there is going to be directed ethnic sectarian violence to seize remaining capital just as brutal as the conditions that precipitated it. The fascist threat is real, they can't be reformed, and they'll only grow in number as economic prospects dwindle for the many. Capitalism has failed, and the fascists are here NOW. Perhaps the DSA can institute policy we'd like, and maybe we're headed to the collapse of the Republican party and split of the Democratic party. Even if it would work out that tidily.... Democratic reforms are not going to outpace a fascist power grab The GOP is completely owned by an insane blood cult of 400 people, the healthcare debacle is proof they do not have a line. The Octogenarians in control of the Democratic party do not understand what their compromises are causing and do not care what they leave behind even if its in flaming wreckage because it is not their problem. The longer it takes to achieve reforms the more numerous and entrenched fascists will become. Seizing control of the Democratic party is the only feasible means to achieve reforms to prevent a growing fascist insurrection and the centrists will let the fascists turn the country into a war zone long before they willingly compromise the interests of capital. We are really, really hosed.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:38
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