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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:C'mon, who doesn't like sausages? Man, he's spent 6 books describing just how bad everyone's junk smells. I think even an oral sex scene would have made me retch at this point. But to have someone do a "fava beans and chianti" face thinking about the dead mens pubis (plural?) he'd been feasting on .. holy gently caress no. Turns my stomach. I guess that pic also is a fine answer to my "where is my happy ending" comment lol. kcroy fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 00:26
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kcroy posted:Does the ending qualify as a weirdly literal twist on "Deus ex Machina"? And rather than it fixing everything magically, it results in the absolute bad ending for everyone involved? Yeah, I'm down with that, that's the kind of end note that feels appropriate for this series.
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Aug 13, 2017 00:49
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I'm rereading the first trilogy and after the bit where hundreds of thousands of the Holy War die of thirst, there's a comment about how the story about the trail of dead was talked about "for generations." So maybe the ending of TUC isn't what he had in mind all along.
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Aug 13, 2017 01:30
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Rime posted:And rather than it fixing everything magically, it results in the absolute bad ending for everyone involved? Yes, remember the prologue? The folks setting up the Dunyain project after the first Apocalypse? The series ending with the Dunyain starting the Second Apocalypse as the pinnacle of their two thousand year project just feels right to me.
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Aug 13, 2017 01:34
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Phanatic posted:I'm rereading the first trilogy and after the bit where hundreds of thousands of the Holy War die of thirst, there's a comment about how the story about the trail of dead was talked about "for generations." So maybe the ending of TUC isn't what he had in mind all along. The conceit of the appendix suggests there are future historians who wrote down the details of the great ordeal, so. Certainly he left a dropped laser/spear, Achamian continuing to act as a new Seswatha, mystical miracle babies born and killed on either side of the the No-God's rebirth, Moenghus with the Scylvendi, the No-God's seed's object of creepy maternal obsession still potentially alive, and Kellhus' dunyain grandson still running around the wilderness as future plot devices able to fight the apocalypse even with a devastated three seas and almost all sorcerers dead. On the subject of sorcery, no chorae on the sarcophagus this time means it should have been vulnerable to sorcery, right? Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 02:08
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Number Ten Cocks posted:The conceit of the appendix suggests there are future historians who wrote down the details of the great ordeal, so. God damnit, this is why I don't like murder mysteries. I'm terrible at thinking of stuff like this. I just eat whatever the author feeds me. Number Ten Cocks posted:Certainly he left a dropped laser/spear, Achamian continuing to act as a new Seswatha, mystical miracle babies born and killed on either side of the the No-God's rebirth, Moenghus with the Scylvendi, the No-God's seed's object of creepy maternal obsession still potentially alive, and Kellhus' dunyain grandson still running around the wilderness as future plot devices able to fight the apocalypse even with a devastated three seas and almost all sorcerers dead. edit: wrt sarcophagus, yes it should be vulnerable, and the Ordeal might have missed their one chance to attack it and end it quickly. Certainly would have been a better play than how they all ended up getting salted / hosed by sranc. edit2: wrt kelmomas: Someone pointed out that he has two souls packed in that thing, which is a wildcard. I'm not sure how Kelmomas' "mommy issues" would play out - did the original no-god show any aspect of NauCayuti? I always saw the no-god as being much like a child, newly awakened consciousness (what am I / what do you see / etc ). Like I'm not sure the no-god is really out there trying to gently caress people up. But rather all of those things ( no new souls / births ) are a side effect of this higher level of consciousness. Which makes me wonder if every soul that runs into him becomes part of him. Which really isn't that bad an ending ( part and particle of god ) rather than just wheat in the granary. kcroy fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 03:59
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Some people enjoy plot speculation so I hope Lamps never loving returns to jerk off all over this thread. What kind of an rear end in a top hat spends time trying to convince others how the thing they enjoy is actually baaaad. I could've used a thousand more pages of Ark exploration and Ciphrang wrangling, despite being unsure if l enjoyed a particular POV. Vile angel.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:57
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Maytag posted:I could've used a thousand more pages of Ark exploration and Ciphrang wrangling, despite being unsure if l enjoyed a particular POV.
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Aug 14, 2017 00:28
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Sephyr posted:Ehh, have to disagree there. It's still a cop-out and makes a LOT of stuff entirely pointless: Cnaiur, Mimara, all of Ishual, the Judging Eye, the entire pantheon, Achamian's changing dreams... I can only agree. Whilst the first trilogy justifiably has fans (of which I am one) the Aspect Emperor series counts as a great ordeal. It is hard to imagine a publisher would extend an advance for the proposed last two books. And then there were all those drat italics....
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Aug 14, 2017 01:46
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ptolpa posted:I can only agree. Whilst the first trilogy justifiably has fans (of which I am one) the Aspect Emperor series counts as a great ordeal. It is hard to imagine a publisher would extend an advance for the proposed last two books. And then there were all those drat italics.... I1m going to write my own dark fantasy opus. It will start with the protagonist waking up and making some tea, then thinking about an ancient evil is on the rise again. Then the earth will split asunder, magma demons will descend to rape the eyesockets of every living thing without exception, and the world will turn into a globe of sterile gray poo poo in which not even microbes flourish. It will all happen in under six pages. The remaining 600 pages will be an intricate, compelling past history of the now-dead planet, rife with cross-references, world-building and funny anecdotes. The sequel might take some doing, but I'm optimistic!
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Aug 14, 2017 02:53
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Maytag posted:I could've used a thousand more pages of Ark exploration and Ciphrang wrangling, despite being unsure if l enjoyed a particular POV. Speaking of ciphrang wrangling - that scene where achamian breaks out from being tortured, and Ioyokus summons the demon is one of my favorite scenes in the book. ( Although when he talks about his super secret path of magic.. and then called himself a "Diamatic sorceror!!!1111" ... It seemed like this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voSpOrimkMY Cuz.. you know. Demons and all.
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Aug 14, 2017 03:29
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Maytag posted:Some people enjoy plot speculation so I hope Lamps never loving returns to jerk off all over this thread. What kind of an rear end in a top hat spends time trying to convince others how the thing they enjoy is actually baaaad. He goes away if you ignore him. Regarding the Decapitants, they must be separated entities from Kellhus considering Malowebi survives? Which is kinda confusing with regards to the appendix note.
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Aug 14, 2017 06:08
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kcroy posted:Speaking of ciphrang wrangling - that scene where achamian breaks out from being tortured, and Ioyokus summons the demon is one of my favorite scenes in the book. ( Although when he talks about his super secret path of magic.. and then called himself a "Diamatic sorceror!!!1111" ... It seemed like this scene: I love the overwrought descriptions in that whole escape. Glittering abstractions, ancient secrets that boil brains, specks of nothingthing coming towards him. By far my favourite description of magic in any fantasy. Although either that scene or a later one does have the line "they may have been poets, but he was a philosopher" which is just laughable.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:23
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Cardiac posted:Regarding the Decapitants, they must be separated entities from Kellhus considering Malowebi survives? Which is kinda confusing with regards to the appendix note. I swear someone referred to the decapitants post Malowebi, yet still described them as demons. I mean certainly no one comments that there is a new loving head hanging from his belt.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:54
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I love the overwrought descriptions in that whole escape. Glittering abstractions, ancient secrets that boil brains, specks of nothingthing coming towards him. By far my favourite description of magic in any fantasy. ha I liked that line! It was an interesting way of setting the Gnosis apart and a level "deeper", or whatever. Oh and right when he is in the library, there is a part about him "whispering secrets" or something to one of the attackers, and how he boils him in his skin or some poo poo. Is that the first time we see the gnosis really loving things up? Why didn't the magnate kick more rear end in general? Like why was he always having to skulk around. You'd think they would get a bit more respect considering how powerful they are.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:58
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kcroy posted:ha I liked that line! It was an interesting way of setting the Gnosis apart and a level "deeper", or whatever. Oh and right when he is in the library, there is a part about him "whispering secrets" or something to one of the attackers, and how he boils him in his skin or some poo poo. Is that the first time we see the gnosis really loving things up? Well, there is also realpolitik. In the first series, the Mandate is 60 sorcerers and controls a castle. The Scarlet Spires are around 300 and controls one of the major countries. All other schools also spend a lot of time trying to get hold of the Gnosis, so the Mandate have to careful of that. It probably doesn't help that they are seen as lunatics raving about the Consult. Finally, their recruitment must have issues "we will make you a powerful sorcerer, but you will have horrible nightmares for the rest of your life".
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Aug 14, 2017 11:18
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Cardiac posted:Finally, their recruitment must have issues "we will make you a powerful sorcerer, but you will have horrible nightmares for the rest of your life". "oh and your soul is damned for all eternity!"
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Aug 14, 2017 19:39
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DrVomact posted:"oh and your soul is damned for all eternity!" Well, that one goes for all sorcerers anyways, so the distinction was why the Mandate wasn't larger. Although in the second series, the Mandate, now imperial, and the witches are the largest contingents.
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Aug 14, 2017 20:48
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Sephyr posted:I1m going to write my own dark fantasy opus. It will start with the protagonist waking up and making some tea, then thinking about an ancient evil is on the rise again. Then the earth will split asunder, magma demons will descend to rape the eyesockets of every living thing without exception, and the world will turn into a globe of sterile gray poo poo in which not even microbes flourish. I am completely sold on it, it sounds awesome (what kind of tea?? will the magma demons drink tea too???? OMG tea-drinking magma demons!!!!). I will buy all your books, from legitimate full mark-up real-life bookstores, and again on ebook. And extra copies to gift to all my friends. I will do this because it is the precedent I set with the existing Bakker books and I am left, after countless pages and a really detailed glossary, with the feeling that 'gee whiz, its all fkd after all'. At least I can cherish the memory of an ultra-psychotic barbarian loving holes in the ground on my deathbed. Seriously. It might remain my last thought on this world.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:49
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Cardiac posted:Well, there is also realpolitik. I guess I'm saying that I'm disappointed that the magnate, which has access to insane sorcery, hasn't done a better job of politics. Maybe they don't feel it is important - their only goal is dealing with the consult. I mean, I like that they are this crazy side school, but they have super massive kick rear end spells, and the haunted by seswatha thing is awesome. Cardiac posted:Well, that one goes for all sorcerers anyways, so the distinction was why the Mandate wasn't larger. Do the mandate have the dreams first, then get recruited? That is how I assumed it happened. Not that you were "one of the few", and you had the option of having the nightmares or not.
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Aug 15, 2017 04:22
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No you don't get the dreams until you take the catechism on Seswatha's mummified heart.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:57
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It has something to do with the heart of seswatha or something like that, an artifact in their fortress. Not sure if Kelhuss has the nightmares or not. Makes me wonder how Achamian is able to teach anyone the Gnosis though, I thought having Seswathas memories while you dream is what prevented any mandate schoolmen from sharing the gnosis. For the second series, I'm on book 2 and I wish it was just Achamians adventures in the North. The parts with the Ordeal are pretty boring, or so far they are anyway. The part where the Skin-Eaters went through Cil-Aujas was awesome, need more stuff like that.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:58
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Mustang posted:It has something to do with the heart of seswatha or something like that, an artifact in their fortress. Not sure if Kelhuss has the nightmares or not. Makes me wonder how Achamian is able to teach anyone the Gnosis though, I thought having Seswathas memories while you dream is what prevented any mandate schoolmen from sharing the gnosis. Kellhus talks to seswatha in one scene, by hypnotizing Akka in book2. Or his soul? Or maybe he fucks it up and disconnects it somehow. Would be interesting if that had something to do with why Akka was dreaming differently than the other Mandate.
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Aug 15, 2017 10:09
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kcroy posted:I guess I'm saying that I'm disappointed that the magnate, which has access to insane sorcery, hasn't done a better job of politics. Maybe they don't feel it is important - their only goal is dealing with the consult. I would guess the Mandate have been in a decline since the death of the NoGod, since their boogeyman have not been visible for a long time. And since every Mandate sorcerer per definition is a fanatic, things like politics would be hard for them and easier for pragmatic schools. As for the Gnosis, as far as I understood it, one needs to touch the heart of seswatha to understand it.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:54
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kcroy posted:Kellhus talks to seswatha in one scene, by hypnotizing Akka in book2. Or his soul? Or maybe he fucks it up and disconnects it somehow. Would be interesting if that had something to do with why Akka was dreaming differently than the other Mandate. Yeah, he persuades Seswatha to share the Gnosis with him. I think it's a massive wasted opportunity that we never got to see that conversation, would have been great to see Seswatha dealing with the Harbinger. I do like the way Seswatha kind of possesses Mandate sorcerers in times of duress though. When Akka is nuking Iothiah it seems like "Seswatha stalked the halls of the Scarlet Spires" could just be metaphorical, but when the grandmaster goes completely HAM to chase down Aurax/ng in TGO it feels more like Seswatha's fully hopped into his body. Kind of like Sheonanra. It's like poetry. It rhymes.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:16
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Maybe to turn level 10 but Achamian began teaching Kelhus without it.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:22
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Cardiac posted:As for the Gnosis, as far as I understood it, one needs to touch the heart of seswatha to understand it. I'm quite sure Seswatha was touching some part of himself during his apprenticeship and blaming it on the gnosis when someone walked in on him. 
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Aug 15, 2017 14:39
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kcroy posted:I guess I'm saying that I'm disappointed that the magnate, which has access to insane sorcery, hasn't done a better job of politics. Maybe they don't feel it is important - their only goal is dealing with the consult. Don't forget that sorcery is a sin and any idiot with a chorae is a deadly threat to a sorceror, so it's hard for a small school like the Mandate to have much significant sway in politics. Sorcery is 90% about destroying things but they're also very fragile, so it's not like their insane power helps them win friends or make alliances. They'd be hunted down as soon as they used it against the Three Seas.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:07
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One thing that bugs me is that there are scenes where the Cishaurim are dropping the Psūkhe on the Holy War and it's mentioned that they're staying out of bow range, but members of the schools are constantly getting swatted out of the sky by Chorae-archers. I dunno, have you tried just raining fire down on people from a bit further away?
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Aug 15, 2017 15:30
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Phanatic posted:One thing that bugs me is that there are scenes where the Cishaurim are dropping the Psūkhe on the Holy War and it's mentioned that they're staying out of bow range, but members of the schools are constantly getting swatted out of the sky by Chorae-archers. I dunno, have you tried just raining fire down on people from a bit further away? Given how anagogic magic works by analogy it's entirely possible that none of its users are capable of comprehending magic over such a great distance as they don't have the appropriate experience of things like trebuchets and cruise missiles. Just another example of how the Scarlet Spires are literally the dumbest people around. As if Eleazarus wasn't proof enough.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:41
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That guy was literally outwitted bu the Scarlet Spires so uh.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:52
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Kuiperdolin posted:That guy was literally outwitted bu the Scarlet Spires so uh. And is he around any more? 
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Aug 15, 2017 18:13
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Phanatic posted:One thing that bugs me is that there are scenes where the Cishaurim are dropping the Psūkhe on the Holy War and it's mentioned that they're staying out of bow range, but members of the schools are constantly getting swatted out of the sky by Chorae-archers. I dunno, have you tried just raining fire down on people from a bit further away? There are occasions when the Cishaurim are killed by Chorae archers if I remember. In one of the early battles a bunch of them are killed by Shrial Knights. Regarding the end of TUC. Does Cnaiur gets possessed by Ajokli in the end? He specifically grows imaginary horns and is fueled by hate which seems to indicate Ajokli. Also, the remains of the Consult doesn't seem so strong. Aurang and Meketterig dead, all Quya and Wracu gone and basically only have Sranc, Bashrag and skinspies left. Aurax seems like a simpleton and the question is how fast the Dunyain ( my iPhone autocompletes that now  ) have learned the Tekne. Meanwhile humanity is still alive and can train armies, it is specified in TGO that Esmenet brings in fresh troops. Lack of sorcerers, but some should remain especially in Zeum. I wonder why the Consult never did actual biological warfare?
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Aug 17, 2017 07:31
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Cardiac posted:There are occasions when the Cishaurim are killed by Chorae archers if I remember. In one of the early battles a bunch of them are killed by Shrial Knights. I think he does get possessed, and it shows that Ajokli cannot see the no-god, NOR Kellhus. I'm wondering if that indicates that Kellhus, though "Dead" has managed to stash his soul somewhere. Aurax was sneaky and whatnot - dunno about his actual powers, but I'm assuming he is the only thing that can control sranc/bashrags/etc. Maybe the dunyain have learned. I would think the remaining dunyain would begin exploring the gnosis / conquering hell now that they see that is an option. But who knows. poo poo could go in any direction. I certainly didn't predict many of the plot twists in TUC. Oh and the no-god doesn't have the chorae protection this time either.
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Aug 17, 2017 10:24
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kcroy posted:
It is heavily implied that the Dunyani are actually Shae. They talk in sequence just like the wretches. And apparently get possessed easily.
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Aug 17, 2017 11:09
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genericnick posted:
What's a shae?
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Aug 18, 2017 00:49
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kcroy posted:What's a shae? Sranc meets autocorrect? Seems like a dumb argument to me.
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Aug 18, 2017 01:08
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kcroy posted:What's a shae? Short for the name of the reputedly dead Consult human sorcerer guy. It's not true, though, he changed bodies mid sentence and it's totally implausible he beat five Dunyain rather than five Dunyain used their super intelligence to mimic his body switching talking in order to influence the other Consult by making it seem like they're him, but better.
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Aug 18, 2017 01:09
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oh ok - I get it. interesting thought. I was pretty bummed we didn't get to meet him. I got the impression that those people needed to be welded in one spot for some reason. You needed them trapped in between both worlds. But I dunno maybe the half-stone part was just an aesthetic choice.
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Aug 18, 2017 01:21
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Number Ten Cocks posted:Short for the name of the reputedly dead Consult human sorcerer guy. It's not true, though, he changed bodies mid sentence and it's totally implausible he beat five Dunyain rather than five Dunyain used their super intelligence to mimic his body switching talking in order to influence the other Consult by making it seem like they're him, but better. Holy poo poo this makes a lot of sense. I kinda disagree, though. What are your thoughts on Bakker's use of the word subsumed in regards to the Dunyain and Shaeonanra? I was getting a feeling that Shae isn't quite done yet.
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