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Samael posted:As a static, we are having trouble with the dragon add in O3S, what's the optimal way of tanking it? There's three ways I've seen work. All three involve leaving Halicarnassus in the center 1) OT takes it to the corner behind the party. Ribbit will always face the party, OT dodges it by going deep into the corner 2) OT takes it right behind the MT. Ribbit will usually target the party but will sometimes target the tanks. Dodging it as OT without cleaving everyone is a pain but possible if you sprint into the corner 3) OT takes it to the same spot as 2, but the MT stacks with the party. As far as I can tell this has no advantages and forces the melees to save true north for it, but I've seen multiple parties do it so maybe I'm missing something In any strat, ranged DPS will start attacking it as soon as the OT has it. Melee DPS stay on Halicarnassus until they're safe from ribbit.Trying to tank the dragon in melee range is just asking for impossible ribbits, don't even try. The dragon has very little hp anyways.
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Aug 18, 2017 06:44
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#2 is the best but the dragon basically ends up on the boss so melee can target it pre-ribbit. The big gain behind this strategy is nobody has to concern themselves with where ribbit is being aimed. After the cave waltz everyone goes NE because there was never a way for ribbit to be aimed in that direction. The dragon will not cleave during this window. After ribbit you reset positions and do it quick. The Mt and melee need to be mindful of cleave range, yeah, it's a pretty big arc and I've seen people take a step into the hitbox and die to it. Here are some time stamps to help illustrate: 00:03:13.376 Dragon casts Frost Breath 00:03:13.555 Hali casts Earthly Dance 00:03:15.034 Hali begins casting Ribbit 00:03:19.027 Hali casts Ribbit 00:03:23.510 Dragon casts Frost Breath Try not to cleave the MT on the earthly dance too, that can suck. It's not the end of the world if you do and they are prepared. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 06:51
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We do a #1 where the OT runs to the MT during ribbit if it targets the party because the Dragon's breath attack is several seconds after ribbit goes off. We could improve it, but we're clearing in one shot these days so we're not likely to muck with the strategy.
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Aug 18, 2017 06:59
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Any advice for a newbie AST? I'm lvl 45 and so far I've hit some rough patches w/qarn and Darkhold my least favorite places from ARR.
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Aug 18, 2017 09:18
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We drag Hali halfway to NW and pull the dragon westwards. Half the time the OT gets frogged but who cares
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Aug 18, 2017 12:25
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Vil posted:Mostly yeah. Depending on your experience with tanking in general (aggro and survivability primarily, also things like positioning and not being pointlessly wiggly), it's also totally fine if you're newer to just chill in Grit full-time until you get a clearer sense of when you're totally fine dropping it and when you're not comfortable dropping it. It’s almost as if 90% of the time you should just do the thing your class is supposed to do and not try to edgelord out an extra sliver of DPS to finish a dungeon 2 minutes faster 
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Aug 18, 2017 12:38
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It’s almost as if 90% of the time you should just do the thing your class is supposed to do and not try to edgelord out an extra sliver of DPS to finish a dungeon 2 minutes faster 
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Aug 18, 2017 12:40
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It’s almost as if 90% of the time you should just do the thing your class is supposed to do and not try to edgelord out an extra sliver of DPS to finish a dungeon 2 minutes faster I'm gonna let you in on the best kept secret in the entire metagame: boss and raid healing is usually completely binary. You cast the heals you always cast in a given situation and go about your business as you always do and outside of tankbusters tank stance makes no difference in regards to the healing you're actually putting out. If you're in tank stance all the time you are giving up free damage and also padding your healers' overheal percentages for no reason.
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Aug 18, 2017 12:49
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Mystic Cave zOWNd posted:I'm gonna let you in on the best kept secret in the entire metagame: boss and raid healing is usually completely binary. You cast the heals you always cast in a given situation and go about your business as you always do and outside of tankbusters tank stance makes no difference in regards to the healing you're actually putting out. If you're in tank stance all the time you are giving up free damage and also padding your healers' overheal percentages for no reason. oh no a whole 20 seconds 
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Aug 18, 2017 12:52
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If a DPS decided not to kill an enemy, or a healer decided not to heal someone, everyone would lose their minds - but a tank can opt not to tank properly and it's OK? I don't think so, buddy. If I could, I'd institute the following failure conditions and their appropriate punishments: DPS: Grossly sub-optimal DPS (has to level mechanist 1 level) Healer: A player dies to trash damage (100 gil fee) Tank: Any other player is hit by an autoattack (12 hour duty finder lockout or community service (buying glamour crystals for disadvantaged ERPers, etc)) strong bird fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 12:56
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Shaving "A COUPLE OF MINUTES    " off your run is pretty significant when they're already <15 minutes
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Aug 18, 2017 12:58
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strong bird posted:If a DPS decided not to kill an enemy, or a healer decided not to heal someone, everyone would lose their minds - but a tank can opt not to tank properly and it's OK? I don't think so, buddy. Did they lose aggro? No? Then they're tanking properly.
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Aug 18, 2017 12:59
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Is it though?
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Aug 18, 2017 13:00
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[quote="“Glagha”" post="“475499548”"] Did they lose aggro? No? Then they’re tanking properly. [/quote] What if in the pursuit of ~*~optimal~*~ dps they do because some person on an Internet forum led them to believe that was more important
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Aug 18, 2017 13:01
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Glagha posted:Did they lose aggro? No? Then they're tanking properly. Yes
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Aug 18, 2017 13:05
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I'm levelling the Ninja's Class, at level 67~ I still see quite a few truly bad tanks who lose aggro on 2 enemies out of 3 and I have to be the amazing, powerful and smart hero that I am and rescue the innocent and fragile healer with my powerful Stun Move.
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Aug 18, 2017 13:08
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It's just like... we're all heroes here, fightin big dragons and punching gods in their stupid snug faces and for some reason people get lovely about the idea of Hit The Dragon Harder unless their sole job is "hit things hard". We're all here to kill the dragon. gently caress 'im up, fam.
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Aug 18, 2017 13:10
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The tank's job is to stand still and press their three buttons so that the dragon or the little dragons do not deal 531 damage to the healer. Anything else is an innovation not intended by the developers and is not necessary, like healer damage.
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Aug 18, 2017 13:26
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The tank's job is to hold everything in range of my flamethrower which I am not allowed to aim for reasons unknown to anyone.
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Aug 18, 2017 13:28
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"Haha loving around trying to do damage as tank so the boss will die a measly 10 seconds faster" kinda rings hollow when you're doing Extreme or Savage and the boss enrages at 2%. Outside that though I don't give a gently caress what any tank is doing and the only reason I ultimately bother to optimize damage when tanking myself is that tanking is the easiest and most boring role in the game and trying to squeeze out extra damage at least gives me something to do. Yeah I definitely prefer it if my EXDR is a minute or two quicker because the tank can be arsed to give a poo poo, but most of the time I can't either way.
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Aug 18, 2017 14:06
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I guess playerbase either learned how to play or SB changes actually made jobs easier to optimize DPS with because I can remember only one time since expansion release when a roulette dungeon went excruciatingly slow. Which was still a 35 minute Shisui run. But compared to a 15 minute run it's like molasses.
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Aug 18, 2017 14:16
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It’s almost as if 90% of the time you should just do the thing your class is supposed to do and not try to edgelord out an extra sliver of DPS to finish a dungeon 2 minutes faster 3k dps vs the 1500 an honest tank does is a "sliver" of dps 
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Aug 18, 2017 15:10
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It’s almost as if 90% of the time you should just do the thing your class is supposed to do and not try to edgelord out an extra sliver of DPS to finish a dungeon 2 minutes faster I would rather finish the dungeon two minutes faster 100% of the time which is easy to do as long as the healer isn't a total waste of space.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:15
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jyrque posted:I guess playerbase either It's the latter. People still find ways to suck at DPS, but now their suck slows the entire group down a bit less.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:19
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:oh no a whole 20 seconds 20 seconds is the difference between beating the boss right before he enrages and, uh, the boss enraging.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:38
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jyrque posted:SB changes actually made jobs easier to optimize DPS This was a quite often publicly stated objective going into Stormblood.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:43
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The gap between good and bad dps can still be large depending. On ala mihgo after the first boss you can grab everything up to the dogs if your healer is on point. Gus was with me a few days ago and sustained over 7k dps for that pack on bard. I've seen sam hit almost 14k for a burst period on that pull and 10k by the time it was done. I usually do around 4-5k on PLD on the big pack. I've had dps not pass 2k on that pull. 
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Aug 18, 2017 15:46
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I've been seeing some great tanks in EXDR dragging tons of mobs along for AoE madness. I just wish Palisade didn't generate enmity. I just want to help out without getting eaten.  While we're on the subject, the current EXDR dungeon set has probably been my favorite so far. All three dungeons are super-good, they poo poo materia and green gear all over you, and they're all pretty easy to speedrun.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:09
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:What if in the pursuit of ~*~optimal~*~ dps they do because some person on an Internet forum led them to believe that was more important At the very worst, the group wipes. Not exactly the end of the world. You're getting really upset about people playing the game in a way you don't like.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:12
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I sometimes lose a target or two on some giant trash packs if they're still being positioned (like if adds come in midway through a pull) and ranged has gone full-hog on something before I have a chance to pick it up, but generally those things are dead in another GCD or two anyway even after I provoke them back.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:15
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I just started playing this game this month and I was skeptical about DPS as a healer. Using Aero and Stone on stuff is OK, but it didn't feel like I was making a huge difference either way. Then I leveled my WHM higher and got Holy and Aero III. DPS makes healing in dungeons so much more fun. I love it when I don't need to heal on trash packs and can spend some time stunning mobs and letting regen do its thing. I even like it when the tank starts pulling bigger packs and I get to weave together DPS and healing. Maybe things will get a little more hectic on current content, though.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:24
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comingafteryouall posted:Then I leveled my WHM higher and got Holy and Aero III. Holy is essentially a defensive cooldown since it stuns. Don't be afraid to swiftcast holy if you want to take heat off of the tank for a couple of seconds, just make sure you won't need it for a rez.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:27
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I rarely drop tank stance but it's mostly because I just keep forgetting.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:30
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comingafteryouall posted:I just started playing this game this month and I was skeptical about DPS as a healer. Using Aero and Stone on stuff is OK, but it didn't feel like I was making a huge difference either way. Then I leveled my WHM higher and got Holy and Aero III. Try out Arcanist (Scholar) some time. You get a pet that does continual small heals automatically and for dungeon runs at least you will almost never have to do any manual healing. All dps all the time baby! Hell, the pet even has an auto-Esuna so you won't even have to worry about debuffs on trash packs for the most part.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:30
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Hommando posted:Holy is essentially a defensive cooldown since it stuns. Don't be afraid to swiftcast holy if you want to take heat off of the tank for a couple of seconds, just make sure you won't need it for a rez. In dungeons, I basically only use Swiftcast with Holy. It freaking rocks and feels awesome.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:31
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Leofish posted:I sometimes lose a target or two on some giant trash packs if they're still being positioned (like if adds come in midway through a pull) and ranged has gone full-hog on something before I have a chance to pick it up, but generally those things are dead in another GCD or two anyway even after I provoke them back. No, it's completely unacceptable for a random trash mob to get even one hit on the rdm in Kugane Castle. I've been accused of using a jump potion for being in DPS stance for minibosses because I "never learned how to tank" so lately i'm not bothering with stance dancing on midbosses because I don't want to hear the bitching. (I do it anyways on roulette dungeon end bosses once they are below 75% health or so because the aggro rotation is super boring.)
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Aug 18, 2017 16:38
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Give everyone Shirk. Problem solved.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:40
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kzin602 posted:No, it's completely unacceptable for a random trash mob to get even one hit on the rdm in Kugane Castle. I've been accused of using a jump potion for being in DPS stance for minibosses because I "never learned how to tank" so lately i'm not bothering with stance dancing on midbosses because I don't want to hear the bitching. (I do it anyways on roulette dungeon end bosses once they are below 75% health or so because the aggro rotation is super boring.) tell them to kick you or stfu, you get an instant q they dont
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Aug 18, 2017 16:42
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I wish they'd just put all the tank swapping as ogcd already. I know PLD is gcds all the way down, I think drk grit is only on deactivation? Either way, I really wish I had leveled warrior instead of paladin for my casual tanking needs.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:55
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Rascyc posted:I wish they'd just put all the tank swapping as ogcd already. I know PLD is gcds all the way down, I think drk grit is only on deactivation? Get rid of the shield stance button, give paladins shield stance as a constant passive trait. Keep the sword stance button, put it on occg with a 10 second cooldown or something. This would make things easier to manage, and free up a hotbar button. I don't know enough about WAR or DRK to comment on their stances.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:10
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