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Serf posted:To each their own, so if a group I was in wanted to run Blood in the Chocolate, I would leave that group. I think that's completely legitimate. It's too much for a lot of groups, and definitely not something to spring on someone without notice. A lot of LotFP stuff is (but not all of it.)
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Aug 22, 2017 20:56
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Arivia posted:And there's nothing wrong with working with horror techniques in what's a horror adventure. It makes sense. Everyone in here seems to be caught up in outrage over the content of BitC while not remembering that it's explicitly a horror adventure. Yes, bad things happen and there are bad people. And some of those bad people are ludicrous stereotypes of black cannibal rapist tribesmen, something you keep ignoring every time someone brings it up.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:58
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a carbon staff - which is apparently just a quarterstaff made of carbon - is a level 7 weapon in starfinder
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Aug 22, 2017 21:11
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Serf posted:theoretically rpgs offer the best money spent:entertainment received of anything What's the theoretical playtime that someone with the entire lineup of a D&D edition would need for that to be true? Hard mode: Including non-official supplements.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:13
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It's a shame that Blood In The Chocolate is pretty awful, cause the core concept behind it should have made for a good adventure(candy mogul uses cursed magical chocolate to turn the nobility of 17th century Europe into addicts, and the PC's are sent in to find out what the hell is going on, and possibly steal the mogul's secrets for their patron's benefit) Also LOTFP is only part of the OSR, most content for it outside of that segment is perfectly normal(blanket shaming the whole movement because of a couple bad eggs is just the epitome of idiocy)
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Aug 22, 2017 21:14
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Serf posted:Starfinder is one of the bigger wastes of effort and talent I've seen in a while. Tons of good art, setting design and high-quality production values for another iteration of the same old lovely system. Well, I don't love Golarion or anything, but by far the best Pathfinder stuff I've ever seen was the pack of Gamemastery cards I got for free when I bought some books from Paizo. Covok posted:Just play Fragged Empire or Fantasy Flight Star Wars. You will be objectively better off when it comes to space adventures since you'll be playing better games that aren't just quick, $5 reskins of the publishers most popular title to make a quick buck. Well, maybe a bit with the latter one, but it's still a better game. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Starfinder and all its supplements mirrored the D20 boom, in that it was just different enough that it's not really cross-compatible with Pathfinder? Xiahou Dun posted:I've never cared for LotFP at all even a little bit, but I'm surprisingly interested in buying this just to find out what the hell is going on in that cover.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:17
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Cease to Hope posted:And some of those bad people are ludicrous stereotypes of black cannibal rapist tribesmen, something you keep ignoring every time someone brings it up. I do feel like this is an important point. If you are comfortable with playing a game with other people who are somehow comfortable with a horror game about horrific fetishes, fine, that's cool I guess. But man, the racist elements of this poo poo are inexcusable.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:18
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starfinder has all of the fun of shadowrun weapon charts: there's a trillion samey guns and you're always going to use the one that does d8 damage instead of the one that does d6
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Aug 22, 2017 21:21
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Plutonis posted:What's the theoretical playtime that someone with the entire lineup of a D&D edition would need for that to be true? I just skim-read a list of all WotC D&D 3.5 books (including adventures) and there were about 100. Assuming an average price of £15 per book, which is what I vaguely remember paying for them, we're looking at £1500. That's enough for 125 trips to the cinema (about £12 a ticket) so about 250 hours of big-screen entertainment. If you play a weekly campaign of four-hour sessions, you're looking at 62.5 sessions, or slightly more than a year.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:21
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potatocubed posted:I just skim-read a list of all WotC D&D 3.5 books (including adventures) and there were about 100. Assuming an average price of £15 per book, which is what I vaguely remember paying for them, we're looking at £1500. I paid $25 for one book that I've run three campaigns in over the course of three years almost without any breaks.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:24
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Jesus Christ those are some expensive tickets in Britain
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Aug 22, 2017 21:24
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I'm probably just bitter that most of the 3.5 books I have were barely used in the year long campaign I GMed and haven't used them in almost a decade.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:26
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Blood in the Chocolate is sincerely the weirdest (and maybe dumbest) loving choice of a hill to die on, especially if your argument is intended to cast it as being somehow progressive. The only thing worse would be defending the hilariously intensely misogynistic James Ra - oh. Oh. Oh. Really?
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Aug 22, 2017 21:29
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Cease to Hope posted:a carbon staff - which is apparently just a quarterstaff made of carbon - is a level 7 weapon in starfinder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8lUZEenFfk
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Aug 22, 2017 21:31
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drrockso20 posted:Also LOTFP is only part of the OSR, most content for it outside of that segment is perfectly normal(blanket shaming the whole movement because of a couple bad eggs is just the epitome of idiocy) so it goes with OSR
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Aug 22, 2017 21:31
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Plutonis posted:Jesus Christ those are some expensive tickets in Britain Yes. You can probably get better deals at the tiny indie places -- much like with roleplaying games.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:32
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Plutonis posted:I'm probably just bitter that most of the 3.5 books I have were barely used in the year long campaign I GMed and haven't used them in almost a decade. I still have a shelf of 3.0 and GURPS books that will never actually get used.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:32
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crossbows exist in starfinder and they're still terrible but you can't have one at level 1 this entire game is so weird
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Aug 22, 2017 21:32
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Yawgmoth posted:just because there might be a giant blue diamond at the bottom of an outhouse is no reason to dive in and start rooting around with your bare hands Luckily there are people right here on this forum who dive down and bring up the good bits, like Beyond the Wall and Godbound (at least until that most recent adventure, geez).
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Aug 22, 2017 21:33
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Yawgmoth posted:just because there might be a giant blue diamond at the bottom of an outhouse is no reason to dive in and start rooting around with your bare hands gently caress you and your lovely opinions
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Aug 22, 2017 21:37
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Cease to Hope posted:crossbows exist in starfinder and they're still terrible but you can't have one at level 1 Eh, throwing knives exist in Shadowrun even though they're an objectively inferior choice even if you have magic martial arts powers.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:38
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Cease to Hope posted:And some of those bad people are ludicrous stereotypes of black cannibal rapist tribesmen, something you keep ignoring every time someone brings it up. Yeah, it's not great. But it is sadly an integral part of the original material Blood in the Chocolate is parodying, and not touching on that would be really weird. Also there wasn't anything wrong with that Godbound adventure. For a game about playing godlings and so on, that kind of material is a common part of the mythological record. Crawford pointed out it's specifically taken from his research, and it matches so much mythology it's a pretty fair inclusion. You all really need to chill about there being sexual assault or something in a game at all. Having it be a relevant plot element is far different from FATAL or whatever.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:42
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Halloween Jack posted:Eh, throwing knives exist in Shadowrun even though they're an objectively inferior choice even if you have magic martial arts powers. that makes sense because knives obviously exist and it's good to have rules for throwing sharp crap when it comes up starfinder has rules for crossbows but not bows, and multiple grades of "crossbolter" including giant assault crossbows that count as heavy weapons. they're all bad, to boot. it's baffling. Arivia posted:Yeah, it's not great. But it is sadly an integral part of the original material Blood in the Chocolate is parodying, and not touching on that would be really weird. funny how the two film adaptations managed to downplay the ludicrous racism but BITC couldn't
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Aug 22, 2017 21:45
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Arivia posted:Yeah, it's not great. But it is sadly an integral part of the original material Blood in the Chocolate is parodying, and not touching on that would be really weird. 
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Aug 22, 2017 21:46
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Arivia posted:You all really need to chill about there being sexual assault or something in a game at all. Absolutely loving not, actually.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:49
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Cease to Hope posted:starfinder has rules for crossbows but not bows, and multiple grades of "crossbolter" including giant assault crossbows that count as heavy weapons. they're all bad, to boot. it's baffling. 
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Aug 22, 2017 21:49
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Sexual assault is pretty high on the list of "things I will never, ever mention in a tabletop game"
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Aug 22, 2017 21:51
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FMguru posted:Clumsy sci-fi crossbows are an important part of the sort of free-wheeling scifi pulp adventure that Starfinder is trying to deliver. Bowcasters are really badass and good on FFG Star Wars unlike crossbows on Pathfinder
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Aug 22, 2017 21:53
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Serf posted:Sexual assault is pretty high on the list of "things I will never, ever mention in a tabletop game"
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Aug 22, 2017 21:54
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drrockso20 posted:gently caress you and your lovely opinions
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Aug 22, 2017 21:56
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Arivia posted:You all really need to chill about there being sexual assault or something in a game at all. What the gently caress is going on with the list of things you are defending all of a sudden?
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Aug 22, 2017 21:56
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Serf posted:Sexual assault is pretty high on the list of "things I will never, ever mention in a tabletop game" It's kind of funny that this entire conversation started as an attempt to open up roleplaying games beyond just guys in a basement playing D&D and yet you're refusing to move beyond that mode of play and assumptions about what players can support. Like, pick one: either RPGs are all PG-13ish dungeon crawl escapism (and we all play Pathfinder) or they're not and we play a variety of a lot more games.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:56
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Bowcaster: Deals a shitton of damage, knocks enemy on its rear end, has decent range. Crossbow: Requires several feats or money to be more useful than a longbow half its price. E: Almost as useful as a longbow, forgot that longbows have bigger range.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:57
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Arivia posted:It's kind of funny that this entire conversation started as an attempt to open up roleplaying games beyond just guys in a basement playing D&D and yet you're refusing to move beyond that mode of play and assumptions about what players can support. Like, pick one: either RPGs are all PG-13ish dungeon crawl escapism (and we all play Pathfinder) or they're not and we play a variety of a lot more games. This is not a binary thing though. I think you're assuming a mode of play that isn't actually representative of anything. I've been in and around far more groups who would gladly make rape jokes and poo poo who are total dungeon-crawl-forever grogs. I think leaving the sexual assault, racism, and homophobia out of games actually brings in more people.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:59
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Arivia posted:It's kind of funny that this entire conversation started as an attempt to open up roleplaying games beyond just guys in a basement playing D&D and yet you're refusing to move beyond that mode of play and assumptions about what players can support. Like, pick one: either RPGs are all PG-13ish dungeon crawl escapism (and we all play Pathfinder) or they're not and we play a variety of a lot more games. Is this really the comparison you want to make? That unless we make rape games, we're just all playing PG-13 dungeon crawl escapism? That the only way to make good proper mature thoughtful games and adventures is to throw in sexual assault? That this is the key to removing gatekeeping from the hobby and to let it flourish? Are you sure? Are you really, really sure?
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Aug 22, 2017 21:59
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Arivia posted:It's kind of funny that this entire conversation started as an attempt to open up roleplaying games beyond just guys in a basement playing D&D and yet you're refusing to move beyond that mode of play and assumptions about what players can support. Like, pick one: either RPGs are all PG-13ish dungeon crawl escapism (and we all play Pathfinder) or they're not and we play a variety of a lot more games. Why are you assuming the market for "adventure based on nostalgia property, except with niche horror-fetish content, and the villain is a queer woman who's a generic sleazy sexual predator archetype" is something other than the stereotypical basement-dweller? You're advocating for content that no other group but the sleaziest would, or should, tolerate. Minor LotFP anecdote: when I went to Free RPG Day at the smaller FLGS in our area, the table had clearly been well-scavenged, except for Vaginas Are Magic, which had five copies left on the table -- i.e., the entire shipment for the store. Seriously, nobody wants this besides the terrible people to whom it's already being sold, and we don't need to cater to these people.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:02
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Serf posted:I think leaving the sexual assault, racism, and homophobia out of games actually brings in more people. It certainly does in my experience. I become uncomfortable around those topics and don't feel they have a place in gaming and I know others feel the same. It's better to be inclusive by removing offensive elements than it is trying to keep the hobby your own little PC-free fiefdom.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:02
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an off-road van is a level 6 item
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Aug 22, 2017 22:03
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Serf posted:This is not a binary thing though. I think you're assuming a mode of play that isn't actually representative of anything. I've been in and around far more groups who would gladly make rape jokes and poo poo who are total dungeon-crawl-forever grogs. I think leaving the sexual assault, racism, and homophobia out of games actually brings in more people. There is a huge difference between rape jokes and an actual serious treatment in a text where it is presented unequivocably as a bad thing that needs to be stopped and brought to justice. ProfessorCirno posted:Is this really the comparison you want to make? You know that's not what I mean. If you're policing the entire hobby like it's still selling adventures to tween and teenage males, then of course it's not going to go anywhere. A reasonable treatment for adults of a mature topic isn't an issue if it's handled well, and Crawford did, with reason. Sure, it's not appropriate for everyone and not everyone wants that in their game, but it's not a black mark against Godbound that it did treat its subject matter maturely instead of the Abyssal Exalted or whatever.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:05
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Serf posted:I think leaving the sexual assault, racism, and homophobia out of games actually brings in more people. That's a thing for the group to decide. If you want to touch or confront modern issues or not should be something that the players and the GM should have a talk about?
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Aug 22, 2017 22:06
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