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Phrosphor posted:Evasion also suffers from diminishing returns: That puts lights just below the old 50% dodge bonus, but every turn, without a skill? 
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Aug 22, 2017 01:50
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Phrosphor posted:Evasion also suffers from diminishing returns: At the 6th stack yes. At the 5th if you're in a light. It still means you can easily rack up 40+% dodge just from moving with an evasive move pilot even in a fairly slow mech, which seems a little excessive.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:01
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DatonKallandor posted:At the 6th stack yes. At the 5th if you're in a light. It still means you can easily rack up 40+% dodge just from moving with an evasive move pilot even in a fairly slow mech, which seems a little excessive. So if you think of a Gunnery 10 pilot shooting at a Light Mech with 6 Stacks of Evasion in Light cover at: code:I believe a blocked shot is another 2 points of malus to hit, so that would make it another -4% (2% penalty to hit after you pass 10 penalty points) so 36% chance to hit! That seems really strong, but at the same time a light mech getting hit at this point is pretty much a death sentance. I think the problem starts to become apparent (and I don't think it really is a problem.. yet) when you look at the Quickdraw. Shooting at it with a 10 Gunnery pilot (we don't have any) is 50% (no bonus penalty to hit chassis, 6 stacks of evasion for 8 points = -40%) That is pretty scary. Remember though that being made unsteady instantly wipes all stacks, so you can always melee or DFA an evasive threat to remove that bonus. Edit: However making evasive mechs unsteady is really hard unless you melee them because the piloting skill gives passive bonus's to your unsteady threshold! Edit2: This makes me what to try a really fast lance even more, and not rely on the bulwark shenanigans I have been so far. Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 02:51
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Phrosphor posted:Remember though that being made unsteady instantly wipes all stacks, so you can always melee or DFA an evasive threat to remove that bonus. That still favors speedy mechs, though. You have to be able to catch them if you want to melee or DFA them, not just get within gun range. And presumably that still has to hit? And a full round of shooting from a mech only chops 5% off of that, and you only get 4 mechs, so a practical 15% reduction even if you get to pile all 4 mechs on that one mech in a single turn after it has moved rather than your lighter assets firing before it's next turn, then it moving again. ... gently caress light mechs.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:57
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OptimusWang posted:Anyone know how much it is for a kickstarter backer to upgrade their pledge into the beta? I think $25, but could be wrong. I'm tempted...
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Aug 22, 2017 03:34
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Zaodai posted:That still favors speedy mechs, though. You have to be able to catch them if you want to melee or DFA them, not just get within gun range. And presumably that still has to hit? I know for certain that a missed melee attack in the last beta would still make the target unsteady. I haven't confirmed in this version. Sensor lock kills two stacks of evasion as well.
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Aug 22, 2017 03:42
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sebmojo posted:I think $25, but could be wrong. I'm tempted... Same here. Not that it's turning into Star Citizen or anything, but I didn't expect them to run so far over.
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Aug 22, 2017 04:28
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I am really curious about the Raven now and what it's prototype ECM stuff might do. Even if it was something small like disrupted indirect fire in an area or prevented sensor locking it could be huge.
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Aug 22, 2017 05:38
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Phrosphor posted:I am really curious about the Raven now and what it's prototype ECM stuff might do. Even if it was something small like disrupted indirect fire in an area or prevented sensor locking it could be huge.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:16
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if any goon wants to play tonight, I will be looking for games around 10 CST
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Aug 22, 2017 14:34
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sebmojo posted:I think $25, but could be wrong. I'm tempted... It was 50 bucks, now it's 60 total to get in the beta.
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Aug 22, 2017 16:53
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Zaodai posted:And a full round of shooting from a mech only chops 5% off of that, and you only get 4 mechs, so a practical 15% reduction... each charge of evasion is +2 difficulty, or -10% to-hit. so three attacks, hit or miss, gives you +30%. if one of those attacks is instead a sensor lock, it's +40%. And the attacks themselves have a reasonable chance of doing some damage. Use missiles, for instance, and you're going to poke a few through the evasion wall. I just played through one of the more challenging story missions today, and there was a lot of me carefully reserving and loving around with attack order to ensure the important weapons were being fired last.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:27
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isildur posted:I just played through one of the more challenging story missions today, and there was a lot of me carefully reserving and loving around with attack order to ensure the important weapons were being fired last. That doesn't sound like the fun part of tactical giant robot combat to me, but I am still eager to give it a shot. Thanks for the correction on the Evasion removal.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:49
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Zaodai posted:That doesn't sound like the fun part of tactical giant robot combat to me, but I am still eager to give it a shot. Not to bring back XCOM time, but... That was a key part of XCOM 
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Aug 22, 2017 22:05
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So HG is suing Tatsunoko as well. Oprah "YOU GET SUED! YOU GET SUED! EVERYONE GETS SUED!Q MWAHAHAHAHA"
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Aug 22, 2017 22:06
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Gwaihir posted:Not to bring back XCOM time, but... That was a key part of XCOM It was, but it felt less fidgety there. I could choose directly who moved when, who shot when, etc. With the initiative system laid on top of it, it just feels more like a task than a plan. Instead of "Okay, the Orion shoots and open holes, and then we have a have a missile mech shoot for the newly opened holes", you're messing with making sure you reserve the mech with the missiles for however many initiative phases to get it behind the Orion, but also dealing with whether the target will then end up moving between them and refresh it's Evasion stacks between the two, etc. It's fine, and it works, but it certainly feels more like something I have to put up with rather than something I'm actually making use of tactically (like the movement/facing, choosing which weapons to fire, heat, etc. which all feel more like direct combat factors).
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Aug 22, 2017 22:11
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I think it just comes down to what difficulty level you feel like picking. Against an easier ai, (or just plain bad humans) then don't worry about it. Rule of cool, Yolo turns, it'll work out well enough and five still guarantee hilarity will happen. I'm happy that the depth exists to go harder in to power game land too though.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:41
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Don't forget, the longer a game goes on the faster the fury/morale bar recharges. Fury shots completely ignore evasion and guarded. My attempts at all high evasion light mech compositions start off really strong but fall apart when the opponent starts using the Fury shots to blow the mechs to pieces.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:56
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Phrosphor posted:Don't forget, the longer a game goes on the faster the fury/morale bar recharges. Fury shots completely ignore evasion and guarded. My attempts at all high evasion light mech compositions start off really strong but fall apart when the opponent starts using the Fury shots to blow the mechs to pieces. I think this may be the core of my heavier lances strats. Refuse to just chase them forever, and counter punch really hard
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Aug 22, 2017 23:04
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Gwaihir posted:I think it just comes down to what difficulty level you feel like picking. Against an easier ai, (or just plain bad humans) then don't worry about it. Rule of cool, Yolo turns, it'll work out well enough and five still guarantee hilarity will happen. I'm fine with it existing. I assume I'll get used to it as I play more. And I certainly don't have a better recommendation for a system. I just hope it doesn't end up being that the imitative system matters more than the positioning, ranges, weapon choices, evasion stacking, etc. If the challenge comes from playing accounting games with the initiative system, then why even have the giant robots?  If we're talking more like some of the weird exploit strats for beating unbeatable levels in Fire Emblem or something, rather than it actually being super necessary for beating missions, then it doesn't even bother me at all.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:16
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Just remember, HBS made Shadowrun games which are more fun than Xcom games. So they're likely to get it right.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:27
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Zaodai posted:If we're talking more like some of the weird exploit strats for beating unbeatable levels in Fire Emblem or something, rather than it actually being super necessary for beating missions, then it doesn't even bother me at all. Probably more the former. Honestly it's a question of minimizing damage; the less you spend on repair, the more you can spend on weapons and chassis and whatnot. In this case, I was trying to beat the story mission without losing any 'Mechs, despite a significant bug making it waaaay harder than it should have been. (It's pretty hilarious: AI units can shoot all their weapons at the range of their longest-range weapons. So I was getting shot by PPC turrets that were also able to fire MLs at me from across the map.) I typically faceroll most content because I'm not testing it for balance, I'm testing stuff like 'can I walk up that mountain' or 'does the AI spawn at the right time'. So I can confirm that, as long as you're willing to eat a few more losses, facerolling works. (I didn't make it through the mission without losing a 'Mech, btw; I had a Jenner and a Centurion pincering the very last enemy Centurion, and both Cents were exposed structure everywhere, and I had three attempts to core him -- all on 85%+ hit chances -- and the gods of RNG were not with me. Over and over and over. And then he hit my Cent just once and killed it.)
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Aug 22, 2017 23:38
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veedubfreak posted:Just remember, HBS made Shadowrun games which are more fun than Xcom games. So they're likely to get it right. Wrong, only shadowrun/x-com hybrid games are better than either shadowrun or x-com. I mean maybe you could do a nice triforce throwing battletech in there.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:53
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I'm not sure I consider not min/maxing the initiative system to be the same as facerolling, but okay. Sounds like a hilarious(ly nasty) bug, though.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:54
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isildur posted:(I didn't make it through the mission without losing a 'Mech, btw; I had a Jenner and a Centurion pincering the very last enemy Centurion, and both Cents were exposed structure everywhere, and I had three attempts to core him -- all on 85%+ hit chances -- and the gods of RNG were not with me. Over and over and over. And then he hit my Cent just once and killed it.) Thank you for facing my nightmares about how the campaign missions will go ahead of time so that, hopefully, the stereotype being real doesn't reach the players as much.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:10
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Do you guys plan on fudging the displayed odds and real odds like your inspiration the original turn based strategy games from Firaxis XCOM Enemy Unknown?
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Aug 23, 2017 00:25
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Just ran a match with 3 lights and an assault. You'd think I'd get my butt whooped, but I won rather handily, just as I did my last match when I ran the same build. The 3 lights I brought? Firestarters. They'd jump up behind the other mechs, set them on fire and blast their back armor away to remove limbs and the heat stopped the other mechs from responding properly. Even managed a few heat shutdowns on mechs that hadn't fired that turn (though I couldn't really exploit it other than to get them to pass a turn, which I liked. It would've been too strong to just be able to shut mechs down and core them immediately). Still got two lights stomped rather handily once I ran out of flamer fuel though. One even spent the last remnant of the match being stomped, literally, by the entire enemy lance that had knocked it down and was just mashing its face into the mud. Melee is a good counter for evasive lights that get too close.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:29
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I am still doing really well with my 3xMedium 1xHeavy lance in the 25mil slot. The mediums are so good. The pilot with Evasive and Bulwark is my friend. I lost one game yesterday, but I put it down to me making a dumb mistake, I flubbed a move and ended a turn with my pristine Kintaro facing away from the enemy lance, unable to make a shot. It died to backshots instantly. Edit: The AC20 in the Gamescom build is looking cool. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT 
Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 00:51
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Zaodai posted:I'm not sure I consider not min/maxing the initiative system to be the same as facerolling, but okay. I consider 'every mech acting on its base initiative' facerolling, and 'i thought about initiative even just a little' as paying attention to the game. It doesn't take a lot of using the initiative mechanics to substantially improve your play. When I'm playing For Real To Win, my rule of thumb is: if I don't have something specific I want a mech to do, I reserve. If I do have something specific, I do it as early in the turn as I can. Rygar201 posted:Do you guys plan on fudging the displayed odds and real odds like your inspiration the original turn based strategy games from Firaxis XCOM Enemy Unknown? XCom just straight up lies to you, based on how a given percentage chance to hit 'feels'. I don't feel like I'm smart enough to lie convincingly, but streak-breaking is easy.
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Aug 23, 2017 04:55
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isildur posted:the best part of the bug is when MGs can shoot at PPC ranges.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:01
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veedubfreak posted:It was 50 bucks, now it's 60 total to get in the beta. So 60 minus whatever you've already paid?
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Aug 23, 2017 05:21
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Rygar201 posted:Do you guys plan on fudging the displayed odds and real odds like your inspiration the original turn based strategy games from Firaxis XCOM Enemy Unknown? don't you mean MechXCom: Enemy Unsteady
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Aug 23, 2017 05:31
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sebmojo posted:don't you mean MechXCom: Enemy Unsteady MeXCOMmander- Enemy Measures
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Aug 23, 2017 05:39
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Considering the new XCOM 2 expansion with soldier bonding and photobooths, are you going to answer the question of whether or not love can bloom on the battlefield between a mechwarrior and their Battlemaster?
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Aug 23, 2017 06:08
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I wish we'd have company on company fights and not only Lance on Lance.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:03
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Affi posted:I wish we'd have company on company fights and not only Lance on Lance. Maybe in the sequel. In success, all things are possible.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:19
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I forget, we are still getting tanks, right? Or did that fall out of scope for this game?
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Aug 23, 2017 08:06
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Drone posted:I forget, we are still getting tanks, right? Or did that fall out of scope for this game? There are still tanks in the files, Mitch has said that the Shreck PPC Carrier is a monster. They will be AI only though. It looks like you will also be able to have your own air wing to call in strafing runs with, and artillery team for off map arty strikes! Edit: Vehicles in the files are: code:Phrosphor fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 08:08
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Phrosphor posted:There are still tanks in the files, Mitch has said that the Shreck PPC Carrier is a monster.  Can't wait to order in death from above.
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Aug 23, 2017 08:16
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isildur posted:the best part of the bug is when MGs can shoot at PPC ranges. That bug needs to be a cheat code, just the MGs for hilarity. That and Big Head mode. On our Goon BT discord we've found the same thing with reserve. I've made one opponent mad with my usage of reserve, to the point where he said "How did you move two units before me?" forgetting that Light and Medium mechs go before his two remaining Heavies. He just got used to me reserving all the time that a normal turn was strange. If I may ask, at what point does the divergence from "This is fun for us, the developers, to play." to "Some players aren't liking this." become an issue that needs to be addressed? I've found the push and pull between what a player community says the want in a game and what the developer has envisioned an interesting situation. The recent trends of early access and long open betas bring in a lot of time for player feedback to affect the final release. This doesn't have to be about BT or HBS specifically, but you guys seem to have your heads screwed tightly on your shoulders.
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Aug 23, 2017 09:28
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